History of Harper's Park/Argyle's training facilities

[Lundan Cabbie]

Maybe this could be the Argyle Fans Trust's project whilst in hibernation. To raise money for and to secure modern training facilities for the club. That would be of more benefit to the club instead of the squabbling over who might or might not own the freehold of Home Park one day.

 

[Paul_Roberts]

Surely it wouldn't cost much to put up a building for changing rooms, canteen, gym etc. It might be beyond our current budget, but I can't believe that no Argyle board over the past 40 years hasn't seriously investigated the possibility.

Unless there isn't enough space over there?

 

[cheshiregreen]

Nope,just a field with a gate :scarf:

Geez.... I had no idea.

On a serious note though, if this represents the day to day life of an Argyle player, why does it not get mentioned when questioning why it is hard to attract players down here? Working conditions must be as important to footballers as they are to other workers.

LC

To take on some of your points.

Location - park in the car park and walk towards the away end, keeping the ground to your right. Past the Lyndhurst (home) turnstiles and Harper's Park is to the left behind hedges. As already stated on the thread - 2 natural grass pitches only. Players/staff have always used the Home Park facilities for changing etc.

The old "chicken and egg" argument comes up on this from time to time - usually when we are doing well on the pitch. Invest in the team or invest in the infrastructure? In rare moments, like the rapid success in 2001/2 and 2003/4 when the club gained successive quick promotions to the second tier, we enter with very poor training facilities compared to our competitors through years of under investment since 1974 when Waiters got this developed for the club. The same argument also applies to the wider infrastructure of the club (notably the Grandstand).

No Board at the club, to my knowledge, has ever had any kind of strategy around development of the off field areas except perhaps for the redevelopment work conducted in early 2001 to create the current bowl on three sides. (This comment includes the various rebuild the ground plans that various Boards alluded to but never got to planning stage).

I seem to recall an article from Rupert Metcalf (WMN) when we were in the Championship when he visited the Hawthorns where there were, I think, something like 7 or 8 pitches incluing astro turf.

Clearly, in the club's current plight, the training facilities are not likely to be be near the top of the priority list. However, for illustrative purposes only, perhaps you could indicate the set-up at Palace so as we have an idea of just how much will need to be done should we ever get close to a return to second tier football and the ultimate prize of Premier League.

 

[Keepitgreen]

Nope,just a field with a gate :scarf:

Geez.... I had no idea.

On a serious note though, if this represents the day to day life of an Argyle player, why does it not get mentioned when questioning why it is hard to attract players down here? Working conditions must be as important to footballers as they are to other workers.

LC

To take on some of your points.

Location - park in the car park and walk towards the away end, keeping the ground to your right. Past the Lyndhurst (home) turnstiles and Harper's Park is to the left behind hedges. As already stated on the thread - 2 natural grass pitches only. Players/staff have always used the Home Park facilities for changing etc.

The old "chicken and egg" argument comes up on this from time to time - usually when we are doing well on the pitch. Invest in the team or invest in the infrastructure? In rare moments, like the rapid success in 2001/2 and 2003/4 when the club gained successive quick promotions to the second tier, we enter with very poor training facilities compared to our competitors through years of under investment since 1974 when Waiters got this developed for the club. The same argument also applies to the wider infrastructure of the club (notably the Grandstand).

No Board at the club, to my knowledge, has ever had any kind of strategy around development of the off field areas except perhaps for the redevelopment work conducted in early 2001 to create the current bowl on three sides. (This comment includes the various rebuild the ground plans that various Boards alluded to but never got to planning stage).

I seem to recall an article from Rupert Metcalf (WMN) when we were in the Championship when he visited the Hawthorns where there were, I think, something like 7 or 8 pitches incluing astro turf.

Clearly, in the club's current plight, the training facilities are not likely to be be near the top of the priority list. However, for illustrative purposes only, perhaps you could indicate the set-up at Palace so as we have an idea of just how much will need to be done should we ever get close to a return to second tier football and the ultimate prize of Premier League.

You can find out more about the Palace Trust initiative here:

http://palacetrust.org.uk/training-ground/

Although I do believe that the situation has now changed with Palace buying their own land and the training ground project being put on ice:

http://www.supporters-direct.org/news-a ... ing-ground

 

[tonycholwell]

I think Harpers Park in many ways is a microcosm of what is bad about Argyle. I think it also says why I always rated Tony Waiters (and if Im honest, the team he built) and to date the best manager Argyle have had in my supporting time. he looked beyond the short term and led by example.

So sad his tenure was so short but thats another thread.

Harpers when opened was always the answer to the question " We ought to improve our facilities; Answer: "We have Harpers Park"

And even on these boards that has been reflected up to and including the current day "We need better infrastructure, including training facilities" Answer "No, we need money spent on the team" To a greater or lesser extent that argument has always prevailed. I thought a couple of years ago things were changing with the tie in to Plymouth Uni, but that seems to have gone very quiet of late.

Living near Bath, the Uni there is a centre of sporting excellence where many Olympic athletes/ swimmers/bobsleighers train and are coached and has first rate facilities. Up the road University of the West of England are in the process of doing a joint deal with Bristol Rovers and Bristol Uni sports facilities are none to shabby either. Universities currently have money, land and the will, Plymouth Uni has a stated desire to be involved in sport, seems a marriage made in heaven.

So why the silence?

Perhaps a more rounded question for the next PAFC/PASB meeting

 

[Keepitgreen]

I think Harpers Park in many ways is a microcosm of what is bad about Argyle. I think it also says why I always rated Tony Waiters (and if Im honest, the team he built) and to date the best manager Argyle have had in my supporting time. he looked beyond the short term and led by example.

So sad his tenure was so short but thats another thread.

Harpers when opened was always the answer to the question " We ought to improve our facilities; Answer: "We have Harpers Park"

And even on these boards that has been reflected up to and including the current day "We need better infrastructure, including training facilities" Answer "No, we need money spent on the team" To a greater or lesser extent that argument has always prevailed. I thought a couple of years ago things were changing with the tie in to Plymouth Uni, but that seems to have gone very quiet of late.

Living near Bath, the Uni there is a centre of sporting excellence where many Olympic athletes/ swimmers/bobsleighers train and are coached and has first rate facilities. Up the road University of the West of England are in the process of doing a joint deal with Bristol Rovers and Bristol Uni sports facilities are none to shabby either. Universities currently have money, land and the will, Plymouth Uni has a stated desire to be involved in sport, seems a marriage made in heaven.

So why the silence?

Perhaps a more rounded question for the next PAFC/PASB meeting

I've already asked it Tony. In short they can't fit Argyle in as the students take priority. That's why it's fine in pre season but not once September comes.

 

[Green Matt]

Surely it wouldn't cost much to put up a building for changing rooms, canteen, gym etc. It might be beyond our current budget, but I can't believe that no Argyle board over the past 40 years hasn't seriously investigated the possibility.

Unless there isn't enough space over there?

Genuine question: has long-term strategy ever played much of a role in the Home Park boardroom? Apart from P1 and Harper's Park what permanent improvements have been implemented to give Argyle a solid-footing facilities and infrastructure-wise in the modern era? People even now are moaning about Brent 'wasting money' (which in fact only exists for development anyway) investing in bricks and mortar, yet what have we got to show for the money spent on the team in the last few decades? Alright, a few really good memories and successes here and there but nothing much of lasting value. Even two championships and a few good years in the Championship were pee'd up the wall for a lack of vision and commitment to the long-term. Far too few Goslings and far too many Steve McLeans you might say.

 

[Green Matt]

Living near Bath, the Uni there is a centre of sporting excellence where many Olympic athletes/ swimmers/bobsleighers train and are coached and has first rate facilities. Up the road University of the West of England are in the process of doing a joint deal with Bristol Rovers and Bristol Uni sports facilities are none to shabby either. Universities currently have money, land and the will, Plymouth Uni has a stated desire to be involved in sport, seems a marriage made in heaven.

Is the Team Bath football team still doing well? I remember a few years ago when they started rising up the pyramid. Might be worth Argyle and the Uni doing a bit of fact-finding there to see how that works. Maybe start a team in the Uni's name as a sort of feeder club for Argyle? Could be a bit of a throwback to the times when Argyle's reserves played in the local leagues, giving young prospects a good balance of quality training and fitness support with some experience of 'real' football.

 

[Martin Thomas]

Cost of building is one thing - securing planning permission would be the major hurdle I imagine :scarf:

 

[pilgrimmike1]

Cost of building is one thing - securing planning permission would be the major hurdle I imagine :scarf:

Thats about the size of it, what you've got to remember is Argyle do not own Harpers Park but only lease it from Pcc who will always have the last word but I supose it's easier to blame Argyle for lack of vision or investment. I can't help thinking that there are a lot of drainage problems around that part of the park so perhaps it's just not viable to build. Just a thought though, the porta cabins from the car park could be recycled and put to good use once the development is started. :scarf:

 

[Rupert]

Nope,just a field with a gate :scarf:

I seem to recall an article from Rupert Metcalf (WMN) when we were in the Championship when he visited the Hawthorns where there were, I think, something like 7 or 8 pitches incluing astro turf.

Clearly, in the club's current plight, the training facilities are not likely to be be near the top of the priority list. However, for illustrative purposes only, perhaps you could indicate the set-up at Palace so as we have an idea of just how much will need to be done should we ever get close to a return to second tier football and the ultimate prize of Premier League.

Make it about a dozen grass pitches at the West Bromwich Albion training ground, from memory. There might have been more, hiding behind hedges. Crewe's training ground, when I went there about eight years ago, had at least half a dozen grass pitches.

 

[dunlop]

In Sturrocks last stint as manager a couple of us Last of the summer wine gang were talking to Luggy over at Saltmill Saltash, that is where Argyle would do their training when Harpers was water logged, Luggy told us that Argyle were looking to upgrade the training facilities by taking over the council parks department behind Harpers and the Plymouth cricket ground, for what ever reason that ideal went pear shape, the only thing that happened was Stapleton and co purchased the cricket ground that is now just a field of weeds and going to waste.

 

[tonycholwell]

Thanks for that Bob, still a question worth pursuing I feel if we are to break the cycle.

It has always seemed to me that the word "professional" infers so much more than just paying people

 

[Tony Campbell]

As the cricket ground backs on to Harpers it appears to be a perfect solution for a natural extension to Argyle's training ground.

This was a view shared by some members of the old board around about 2005. Unfortunately half of the board disagreed and wouldn't sanction the purchase of the land by the club. So those Directors that supported the proposal, namely Stapleton, Dennerly and Gill purchased the land themselves with a view to incorporating into Argyle's training facilities at some time in the future.

As Plymouth Cricket Club were still using the cricket ground at the time, it took several years for them to be relocated and the ground made vacant for Argyle's use.

Once that issue was resolved the board (Kagami era) commenced discussions with the council with a view to taking over the lease on the Parks Work's department site (immediately adjoining Harpers) with the intentions of building an artificial pitch, changing rooms, managers office etc on that site, as well as converting the cricket pitch into another full size grass training ground.

This would have substantially improved Argyle's training facilities but unfortunately we all know what happened next and the project never progressed.

 

[dunlop]

Thanks for that Tony I forgot about the artificial pitch, do Stapleton and co still own the cricket ground, I can't see any real value in the land unless Goals expand.

I hope FoCP are not reading this post.