Recruitment (in January)

[Montybulldog]

Woodsy is right, but it's devastating to watch it pan out.

I think the Gyabi injury and Forshaw's persistent niggles have magnified the problem. Forshaw's troubles were foreseeable though, making the Butcher decision look awful now.

Not saying by any stretch if Gyabi/Forshaw were fully available at the moment we'd be as good as we were at the beginning of the season, but it's been particularly bleak the last few weeks in midfield. Double pivot of Edwards and Randell (that's a League 1 midfield I'm afraid) today with effectively no one to bring on to freshen things up (I assume Forshaw was basically fit enough to come on in an emergency only?)

Not to glorify the Foster era (!), but at least when Gyabi/Forshaw fully fit we had "legs" in games, e.g. the better performances Boro and Blackburn away - full of energy. Currently feels like we're bare bones. Every starting XI fills me with worry if I'm honest.

Yep i recall saying at the time getting tod of butcher and Gillesphey was Big decision which we could live to regret as well as not dipping into free agents market for striker and attacking midfielder.

All of Jan recruitment was in defence or defensive midfield the exception of Alfie Devine.

My biggest concern is our obsession with data analytics, SH and ND talk about this constantly in POD casts, pre- season prep reviews.

What happened to actually scouting a player, seeing first hand how the endeavour and energy is put into performances, data analytics won't.show you that, nor will it show you the player personality, yes D.A plaas a part, but shouldn't be the entire foundation for your recruitment, especially the higher you go up the footy prymid the more difficult it becomes, as the teams your competing with can also measure DA statistics.

DA is simply statistical analysis, which only show.part of the picture and for.me this is where SH, AP, ND could.learn their biggest lesson moving forward in appointment of new head coach, and next chapter in development of Argyle.

We have made good strides in.past 4- 5 years, but.the.next few weeks need a clear direction and need a honest voice, on how we need solidify the culture of what it means to be a part.of Argyle.

I would be.speaking to Rob baxter and Tony Rowe on how they have dealt with a dramatic change in personnel at Exeter Chief yet maintained the mentality and culture that brought them sucess.



.

 

[jimsing]

You are right, data analysis is not the b-all and end-all of any transfer dealings, but it is a vital pre-curser. Data analysis will confirm the type of player and their skillset that the manager/coach wants to bring in, but is still vital to watch the player before purchase or loan and for background checks on character to be made before any approach is officially made from the club.

I'm not sure that rugby will give any comparisons to football. Their wage structure is restricted in order to spread out the talent among the clubs, which is why you see so many rugby 'stars' go abroad before the end of their career as they can earn a lot more money abroad than they could in this country.

 

[memory man]

Yep i recall saying at the time getting tod of butcher and Gillesphey was Big decision which we could live to regret as well as not dipping into free agents market for striker and attacking midfielder.

All of Jan recruitment was in defence or defensive midfield the exception of Alfie Devine.

My biggest concern is our obsession with data analytics, SH and ND talk about this constantly in POD casts, pre- season prep reviews.

What happened to actually scouting a player, seeing first hand how the endeavour and energy is put into performances, data analytics won't.show you that, nor will it show you the player personality, yes D.A plaas a part, but shouldn't be the entire foundation for your recruitment, especially the higher you go up the footy prymid the more difficult it becomes, as the teams your competing with can also measure DA statistics.

DA is simply statistical analysis, which only show.part of the picture and for.me this is where SH, AP, ND could.learn their biggest lesson moving forward in appointment of new head coach, and next chapter in development of Argyle.

We have made good strides in.past 4- 5 years, but.the.next few weeks need a clear direction and need a honest voice, on how we need solidify the culture of what it means to be a part.of Argyle.

I would be.speaking to Rob baxter and Tony Rowe on how they have dealt with a dramatic change in personnel at Exeter Chief yet maintained the mentality and culture that brought them sucess.



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I don't think Forshaw was a free agent per se, but I suspect he was that in all but name. But he certainly provided a perfect example of the risk that comes with a January free-agent.

 

[Greenlou64]

We rely too much on statistics and data. It doesn’t matter how much possession you have in a game it’s putting the ball in the net as well as keeping clean sheets which we don’t do enough of. The amount of goals conceded by faffing around at the back it’s not worth it.

 

[Biggs]

All of Jan recruitment was in defence or defensive midfield the exception of Alfie Devine.

This really was criminal, it's as if Foster thought that attack was taken care of and didn't need any attention. Great attack + improved defence = good team.

Doesn't work like that though, we had a great attack both because it was worked on every single day and we had the players to play that way. We had to build on the attacking foundations with intensive coaching and recruitment to replace Azaz and support Whittaker and Hardie. What we've ended up with is a team that's just bang average at both ends.

And for all those saying we rely on data too much, I don't agree and it was the ditching of a clear data-driven process that's got us in this mess.

 

[Montybulldog]

We rely too much on statistics and data. It doesn’t matter how much possession you have in a game it’s putting the ball in the net as well as keeping clean sheets which we don’t do enough of. The amount of goals conceded by faffing around at the back it’s not worth it.

Yep so we're in agreement then, data analysis can bring a player onto your radar, however then you have to scout them, see how there style fits your.playing structure, meet player to assess personal mentality - No matter how many analysts you employ, it won't give you insight into the latter attributes.

 

[The Night Riveria]

Lino Sousa.What was the point.?This guy came with big fanfare from the Argyle TV guys but has played so few minutes.I believe he has been fit virtually all the time has has been here..Another total waste of a signing in the January window

 

[Montybulldog]

This really was criminal, it's as if Foster thought that attack was taken care of and didn't need any attention. Great attack + improved defence = good team.

Doesn't work like that though, we had a great attack both because it was worked on every single day and we had the players to play that way. We had to build on the attacking foundations with intensive coaching and recruitment to replace Azaz and support Whittaker and Hardie. What we've ended up with is a team that's just bang average at both ends.

And for all those saying we rely on data too much, I don't agree and it was the ditching of a clear data-driven process that's got us in this mess.

Not sure when we ditched it, be interesting to know you source as SH referenced using Data analytics in his recent POD cast.

I believe you have to.get a balance between DA and scouting, my concern was we were obsessed with DA and forgotten about the latter.

For me we need to refocus on the culture of play that brought use success.

I don't see what's wrong with speaking to a master of this Rob Baxter, how Chiefs have kept themselves competitive both domestically and on the continent having lost lots if quality creative players whilst having financial constraints. Any new head coach and existing coach set up could only benefit from a discussion with Rob B.

 

[Biggs]

Not sure when we ditched it, be interesting to know you source as SH referenced using Data analytics in his recent POD cast.

Because Andrew Parkinson's letter to fans stated that Ian Foster was given a budget and identified targets (which was obvious anyway as they were largely all England U20 players) in January, so that was a shift away from the data-driven recruitment process.

For me we need to refocus on the culture of play that brought use success.

And agreed.

 

[Cobi Budge]

I’m not sure why some people are turning on data, sure, it doesn’t tell you everything, but for the most part our focus on data has been really successful in recent years, and as Biggs has pointed out above we had a poor January because we actually moved away from the data driven model in that we just let IF bring in whoever he wanted to.

 

[WoodsyGreen]

This really was criminal, it's as if Foster thought that attack was taken care of and didn't need any attention. Great attack + improved defence = good team.

Doesn't work like that though, we had a great attack both because it was worked on every single day and we had the players to play that way. We had to build on the attacking foundations with intensive coaching and recruitment to replace Azaz and support Whittaker and Hardie. What we've ended up with is a team that's just bang average at both ends.

And for all those saying we rely on data too much, I don't agree and it was the ditching of a clear data-driven process that's got us in this mess.

Yep, I think that's exactly what he thought. But probably not just him - there had been comments even from SH that we had to tighten up at the back. It seems we put all our eggs into that basket and thought Whittaker and Hardie would be able to hold the fort up front.

Except that the January additions haven't really tightened us up at all. We conceded 38 goals in the first half of the season and have so far conceded 32 in the second-half, with free-scoring Hull still to come. An improvement yes but hardly transformational.

Where we've really tanked is in our goal-scoring output: 38 goals scored in the first 23 games, a paltry 21 in the subsequent 22. If that isn't an indicator of us making a right royal dog's dinner of January then I don't know what is. Dewsnip is a football man and knows far more about the workings of the game than I do, but there is literally nothing he could say that would change my mind that we cocked January up big time. It cost Foster his managerial career (though he didn't exactly help himself) and may well cost us our Championship status.

As windows go it was an unmitigated disaster.

 

[Cobi Budge]

Lino Sousa.What was the point.?This guy came with big fanfare from the Argyle TV guys but has played so few minutes.I believe he has been fit virtually all the time has has been here..Another total waste of a signing in the January window

I agree, a waste of our time and a waste of his as well. We really didn’t need another LB/LWB, we have Galloway, Miller and Mumba.

January just seemed to be a case of trying to fill the squad with as many Ian Foster men as possible without much consideration as to how much impact they’d actually have.

 

[oldage]

You are right, data analysis is not the b-all and end-all of any transfer dealings, but it is a vital pre-curser. Data analysis will confirm the type of player and their skillset that the manager/coach wants to bring in, but is still vital to watch the player before purchase or loan and for background checks on character to be made before any approach is officially made from the club.

I'm not sure that rugby will give any comparisons to football. Their wage structure is restricted in order to spread out the talent among the clubs, which is why you see so many rugby 'stars' go abroad before the end of their career as they can earn a lot more money abroad than they could in this country.

SH is an expert at dealing with investments and finance but people skills are somewhat different!

 

[oldage]

I agree, a waste of our time and a waste of his as well. We really didn’t need another LB/LWB, we have Galloway, Miller and Mumba.

January just seemed to be a case of trying to fill the squad with as many Ian Foster men as possible without much consideration as to how much impact they’d actually have.

We were not able to sign the players we desperately needed due to financial constraints and presumably unavailability of players. Foster did what he could in the circumstances.

 

[oldage]

Yep, I think that's exactly what he thought. But probably not just him - there had been comments even from SH that we had to tighten up at the back. It seems we put all our eggs into that basket and thought Whittaker and Hardie would be able to hold the fort up front.

Except that the January additions haven't really tightened us up at all. We conceded 38 goals in the first half of the season and have so far conceded 32 in the second-half, with free-scoring Hull still to come. An improvement yes but hardly transformational.

Where we've really tanked is in our goal-scoring output: 38 goals scored in the first 23 games, a paltry 21 in the subsequent 22. If that isn't an indicator of us making a right royal dog's dinner of January then I don't know what is. Dewsnip is a football man and knows far more about the workings of the game than I do, but there is literally nothing he could say that would change my mind that we cocked January up big time. It cost Foster his managerial career (though he didn't exactly help himself) and may well cost us our Championship status.

As windows go it was an unmitigated disaster.

The big question is why after two transfer windows we were no nearer to signing the attacking players that we were so obviously short of.? Why are we paying Data Analysts?