Why no player further up the park for opposition corners?

[Greenskin]

I agree but Luggy had the same strategy in his first spell and it worked for him.

Exactly, two promotions didn't make it a problem then !

I don't remember too many games under Sturrock when we were desperately holding on for 1-goal victories, especially against the struggling sides.

Under Adams, it's been a regular occurrence for the last 18 months or so.

Argyle actually had eleven 1-0 wins in that record breaking season under Sturrock.

 

[memory man]

I agree but Luggy had the same strategy in his first spell and it worked for him.

Exactly, two promotions didn't make it a problem then !

I don't remember too many games under Sturrock when we were desperately holding on for 1-goal victories, especially against the struggling sides.

Under Adams, it's been a regular occurrence for the last 18 months or so.

Argyle actually had eleven 1-0 wins in that record breaking season under Sturrock.

Or put another way nearly 25% of our 46 game programme and more than a third of our wins. And there were another six games where we won by the a single goal, most exceptionally the turning point game at Rushden and three weeks later another 3-2 at Exeter.

 

[Greenskin]

I agree but Luggy had the same strategy in his first spell and it worked for him.

Exactly, two promotions didn't make it a problem then !

I don't remember too many games under Sturrock when we were desperately holding on for 1-goal victories, especially against the struggling sides.

Under Adams, it's been a regular occurrence for the last 18 months or so.

Argyle actually had eleven 1-0 wins in that record breaking season under Sturrock.

Or put another way nearly 25% of our 46 game programme and more than a third of our wins. And there were another six games where we won by the a single goal, most exceptionally the turning point game at Rushden and three weeks later another 3-2 at Exeter.

Six 0-0 draws as well. Clearly remember one game at Swansea in that season where Argyle kept the ball in the opposition corners for about the last 10 minutes of the game and their manager saying something about "they'll kill football playing like that" afterwards. I suppose at least it solved the problem of how many men to leave upfield when defending a corner. :lol:

 

[gaspargomez]

Given that Paul Sturrock won this league with a record points total, it's obviously a winning tactic. As a fan, I find it a bit odd when Argyle have pace in the team (eg Kennedy) who could hang around further up the park and potentially latch on to a loose ball. But Sturrock and Adams know what they are doing. (I just wish we were as good at attacking corners and free kicks as were in Sturrock's time in this league).

 

[PL2 3DQ]

Adams received criticism for conceding too many goals from corners, he changes to a zonal marking system when defending corners which involves bringing every player back to defend, the result is no goals have been conceded from corners since the use of the zonal system.
But Adams then gets criticised for not leaving a player up front!!

 

[Greenskin]

Given that Paul Sturrock won this league with a record points total, it's obviously a winning tactic. As a fan, I find it a bit odd when Argyle have pace in the team (eg Kennedy) who could hang around further up the park and potentially latch on to a loose ball. But Sturrock and Adams know what they are doing. (I just wish we were as good at attacking corners and free kicks as were in Sturrock's time in this league).

I suppose one question is what would happen if the ball was cleared and Kennedy or anyone was left up front on his own against two defenders-he would either have to hold the ball up until the other players covered virtually half the length of the pitch to reach him or do something very special on an individual basis. Not saying those things couldn't be done but it wouldn't be easy and the likelihood is that possession would probably be lost anyway. The first job when defending a corner is to defend [which in all honesty Argyle have not done with great distinction in recent times] and professionals would look at a quick breakaway as an unlikely bonus, rightly or wrongly. Good point about the Sturrock proficiency at scoring from set pieces-not often in football history has a centre back finished as top scorer.

 

[santos73]

iI remember reading a quote by Ian Holloway when asked a similar question about leaving players up-field when defending a corner and he said "Because we would concede a goal!"

 

[Pifom]

Adams received criticism for conceding too many goals from corners, he changes to a zonal marking system when defending corners which involves bringing every player back to defend, the result is no goals have been conceded from corners since the use of the zonal system.
But Adams then gets criticised for not leaving a player up front!!

We effectively conceded 2 corners against yeovil, both times all 11 players were in the box, we conceded a corner to cheltenham with 11 players in the box, we conceded a deep free kick against against stevenage with 11 in the box, we conceded a corner against barnet with 11 in the box and once again we conceded a corner against liverpool with 11 men defending in the box, how exactly does this equate to "no goals have been conceded from corners"?

 

[PL2 3DQ]

Adams received criticism for conceding too many goals from corners, he changes to a zonal marking system when defending corners which involves bringing every player back to defend, the result is no goals have been conceded from corners since the use of the zonal system.
But Adams then gets criticised for not leaving a player up front!!

We effectively conceded 2 corners against yeovil, both times all 11 players were in the box, we conceded a corner to cheltenham with 11 players in the box, we conceded a deep free kick against against stevenage with 11 in the box, we conceded a corner against barnet with 11 in the box and once again we conceded a corner against liverpool with 11 men defending in the box, how exactly does this equate to "no goals have been conceded from corners"?

Have another read..... 'since the use of the zonal system'.
It was first used against Exeter.

 

[Pifom]

Adams received criticism for conceding too many goals from corners, he changes to a zonal marking system when defending corners which involves bringing every player back to defend, the result is no goals have been conceded from corners since the use of the zonal system.
But Adams then gets criticised for not leaving a player up front!!

We effectively conceded 2 corners against yeovil, both times all 11 players were in the box, we conceded a corner to cheltenham with 11 players in the box, we conceded a deep free kick against against stevenage with 11 in the box, we conceded a corner against barnet with 11 in the box and once again we conceded a corner against liverpool with 11 men defending in the box, how exactly does this equate to "no goals have been conceded from corners"?

Have another read..... 'since the use of the zonal system'.
It was first used against Exeter.

In my opinion it's never looked like anything other than zonal marking.
I still dont agree we shouldn't have at least 1 person outside the box. Kennedy posesses no ariel threat and he's quick. Having 10 players in the box still outnumbers the opponents 100% of time.
Ok we may not have conceded from corners in the last 3 games but we've only won 1 of them, not 100% sure on how many corners we've had to defend but it could be argued that should we have left someone up front from defending them corners maybe we could have countered and scored and not lost/won those games.

 

[PL2 3DQ]

Adams received criticism for conceding too many goals from corners, he changes to a zonal marking system when defending corners which involves bringing every player back to defend, the result is no goals have been conceded from corners since the use of the zonal system.
But Adams then gets criticised for not leaving a player up front!!

We effectively conceded 2 corners against yeovil, both times all 11 players were in the box, we conceded a corner to cheltenham with 11 players in the box, we conceded a deep free kick against against stevenage with 11 in the box, we conceded a corner against barnet with 11 in the box and once again we conceded a corner against liverpool with 11 men defending in the box, how exactly does this equate to "no goals have been conceded from corners"?

Have another read..... 'since the use of the zonal system'.
It was first used against Exeter.

In my opinion it's never looked like anything other than zonal marking.
I still dont agree we shouldn't have at least 1 person outside the box. Kennedy posesses no ariel threat and he's quick. Having 10 players in the box still outnumbers the opponents 100% of time.
Ok we may not have conceded from corners in the last 3 games but we've only won 1 of them, not 100% sure on how many corners we've had to defend but it could be argued that should we have left someone up front from defending them corners maybe we could have countered and scored and not lost/won those games.

It was man marking all season up until and including the Cambridge game, I guess Adams worked on the zonal system at the training camp in Marbella and in the three games since we haven't conceded from 18 corners.

I'm surprised the local media, who report on anything Argyle related, haven't picked up on this.

 

[demportdave]

I agree but Luggy had the same strategy in his first spell and it worked for him.

Exactly, two promotions didn't make it a problem then !

I don't remember too many games under Sturrock when we were desperately holding on for 1-goal victories, especially against the struggling sides.

Under Adams, it's been a regular occurrence for the last 18 months or so.

Argyle actually had eleven 1-0 wins in that record breaking season under Sturrock.

Or put another way nearly 25% of our 46 game programme and more than a third of our wins. And there were another six games where we won by the a single goal, most exceptionally the turning point game at Rushden and three weeks later another 3-2 at Exeter.

Six 0-0 draws as well. Clearly remember one game at Swansea in that season where Argyle kept the ball in the opposition corners for about the last 10 minutes of the game and their manager saying something about "they'll kill football playing like that" afterwards. I suppose at least it solved the problem of how many men to leave upfield when defending a corner. :lol:

The key phrase was "holding on".

I was at Swansea that evening, I think it was the game after we had lost 2-0 at Luton on the Saturday. We scored first but then Swansea laid siege to our penalty box in the second half. Larrieu, Coughlan and Wotton were excellent and we held on for the win but it would have easier last 10 minutes if Trigger (who had been left up field) hadn't missed a one on one with their keeper, he never had a Swansea player within 20 yards because they were all up field.

Argyle didn't set out to sit so deep that night as is so often the case under Adams, it was just that Swansea piled the pressure on. Under Adams, sitting deep and inviting teams to come at us is actually a regular tactic, even at home against struggling teams.

I know we won a lot of games by only 1 goal that season but the difference between that team and the present one is that you felt confident that if we scored first we would win. We weren't waiting all second half for the opposition to score, as was the case against no wins in 8 games Orient last week.

 

[gaspargomez]

I rate Adams as a manager, but I don't like the way Argyle invite teams to attack them. I don't think its a deliberate tactic, I think it's a weakness of this team.

Comparisons with Sturrocks team are inevitable, but that team was way better- winning the league with a record points total. It was effectively a Championship team and I don't think too many of Adams squad would have got into Sturrocks starting 11. Just an opinion!

 

[demportdave]

I rate Adams as a manager, but I don't like the way Argyle invite teams to attack them. I don't think its a deliberate tactic, I think it's a weakness of this team.

I was interested to read Chris Errington's comments in the Herald tonight regarding the local Journos at Hartlepool telling him that was the best they had seen the home side play in a long time. Hartlepool have been struggling recently and were well beaten by Mansfield and Luton in their previous 2 games.

The people at Barnet said the same thing when they beat us in early January, I think their Manager actually described it as their best performance of the season, yet they were comfortably beaten at home by Doncaster a few days later. Similarly, Yeovil have only won 1 League game in almost 3 months and that was against us. Orient had not won in 8 games until playing us last week, they then lose at home to fellow strugglers Notts County on Saturday, (although they were missing their Captain!).

Is it just a coincidence that all of these lower / mid-table teams were able to raise their game against us?

Why do we struggle to beat them?

Is there a problem with our tactics, or is it "a weakness of this team", as you describe it.