2024/2025 Squad list | Page 5 | PASOTI
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2024/2025 Squad list

Oct 10, 2018
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That’s funny as one of the biggest criticisms of Hazard was that he didn’t come for crosses enough and stayed glued to his line.

Also Cooper wasn’t born in Plymouth 🤦🏻‍♂️
He was local to the area and came right through the ranks, so its bought him credit in the bank, which detracts a lot of fans from being objective in assessing qualities. I just dont believe he is as great as many fans think he is.

He is a good keeper and more than capable in championship, yet he ain't a premiership standard goalie, and if I were CB in the prem, i wouldnt be to confident with him flying in the air to punch 90% of crosses delivered into the box. Teams like Palace, Luton, Brentford and Everton would be lacking their lips.
 
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Jun 26, 2023
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It doesn't make sense for them to go for Gibson now when the premier league season hasn't finished yet. Would they go for him if they stay up? I doubt it because with the money they would get for staying in the premier league they would be going after low end premier league/top end championship defenders.
 
May 4, 2012
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£4 million is not enough, especially given we will have to give at least 25% to Everton. He was my player of the season and is worth a lot more. No more Plymouth prices please.
Everton let him go didn't they? I've never heard anything to suggest we've paid any money for him or will owe Everton anything after he goes.
 
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It doesn't make sense for them to go for Gibson now when the premier league season hasn't finished yet. Would they go for him if they stay up? I doubt it because with the money they would get for staying in the premier league they would be going after low end premier league/top end championship defenders.
Not saying that Gibson rumours are true or not but speaking more generally, I would have thought that a lot of players had plans if we were faced with playing in league 1. The situation has changed, as will our offers. Some decisions are still be made.
 

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Everton let him go didn't they? I've never heard anything to suggest we've paid any money for him or will owe Everton anything after he goes.
Everton offered him a contract he decided to move.
 

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Everton let him go didn't they? I've never heard anything to suggest we've paid any money for him or will owe Everton anything after he goes.


We would have had to agree a fee with Everton because of his age, came through their youth and they offered him a deal but he said no
 
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Jul 13, 2006
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He was local to the area and came right through the ranks, so its bought him credit in the bank, which detracts a lot of fans from being objective in assessing qualities. I just dont believe he is as great as many fans think he is.

He is a good keeper and more than capable in championship, yet he ain't a premiership standard goalie, and if I were CB in the prem, i wouldnt be to confident with him flying in the air to punch 90% of crosses delivered into the box. Teams like Palace, Luton, Brentford and Everton would be lacking their lips.
Like they do against old Trafford a supposedly superior keeper who flaps at everything and dropped by Burnley, like he didn't get enough practice playing for them.
 
Jan 9, 2023
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He was local to the area and came right through the ranks, so its bought him credit in the bank, which detracts a lot of fans from being objective in assessing qualities. I just dont believe he is as great as many fans think he is.

He is a good keeper and more than capable in championship, yet he ain't a premiership standard goalie, and if I were CB in the prem, i wouldnt be to confident with him flying in the air to punch 90% of crosses delivered into the box. Teams like Palace, Luton, Brentford and Everton would be lacking their lips.
They say there are lies, damn lies and statistics.

All the same, I suggest you go look at some stats. The ones I've seen suggest he is head and shoulders the best keeper in this league, never mind at this club, and that's when he's been either half fit or playing in a terribly managed team for most of his games.

It's not just that though, there is enough empirical evidence to suggest Hazard isn't good enough. It's fine to say football is about opinions, but I'm not sure opinions should be at the expense of the actual evidence in front of us. I feel like it warrants a more in-depth summary.

There are a number problems with Hazard from what I've observed. He is extremely timid claiming crosses, rooted to his line and rarely venturing beyond his 6 yard box (although to be fair he did improve as the season went on). He is slow off his line and slow to recognise danger from through balls or to claim high balls over the top. This is something that Cooper absolutely excels at (just watch Saturday again - you only miss that skill when it's gone and he did it multiple times). It has caused all sorts of problems, where defenders are expecting the keeper to be there to claim it, but he hasn't been, or vice versa. His decision making is poor. I believe the uncertainty this creates has led directly to some of our absolute comedy defendng at times this year which has cost us untold points. Would the OG at Cardiff have happened with Cooper in goal? It's highly unlikely, he'd have called for it in no uncertain terms. There would have been none of the will he won't he come uncertainty. In fact we've seen little of that sort of defending with Cooper between sticks.

He is not great with the ball at his feet (not that Cooper has been at his best this year, but at least he's comfortable sweeping which helps massively beating the press). When the ball arrives, Hazard needs an eternity to do anything with it, and is often uncertain, meaning he cannot be relied upon to receive it in pressure situations. He seems to have that unfortunate accelarated clock in his head when he has it (I know, I had it too!) An additional thing, which I have also noticed, is he does not command his defence in the way Cooper does, or indeed in any way at all. We have been shocking defending set plays all season so I don't know how you can view that as a strength of his. The only time we've looked remotely solid from set plays is lately with - well with Cooper in goal. You can see him in the area directing traffic, and as has already been mentioned, he commands his area. Beyond that, I've seen Hazard spend an eternity lining up a wall in almost comedy fashion only for the oppo taker to somehow still find a gap (I seem to remember we conceded exactly like that).

Most importantly, indeed critically for our style of play, is the tempo Hazard sets when he gets the ball. As soon as Cooper has it in his hands (which is more often, because as already mentioned he actually claims crosses) he is looking to get us moving forward. Although it hasn't been at his previous standard by any means, his quick distribution dictates the tempo of our game. We quite literally look a different team with him in goal (as was the case last year). Hazard holds onto it, our CBs gather around the 6 yard box, then he either rolls it out 3 yards or punts it the length of the pitch. Now some mitigation here is that he may have been playing under instruction from Foster - where in a 4-3-3 we seemed to split the CBs to outside the box and get the team up the pitch, with Foster half the squad was in the 6 yard box for every goal kick, which made beating the press impossible. And mitigation for Foster is all teams try and draw the oppo out if there is no quick break on, you saw us do it on Saturday even. But you still have to be flexible and think fast and be able to recognise when a break is on, and have the ability to capitalize, and Hazard does not have this skill. I can scarce remember one occasion.

This all sounds harsh, and in truth it is. He's a decent backup who played his heart out for us and made some great saves, but being a good championship goalie is about a lot more than being a shot stopper. It's a critical role for the entire defence. If we want to progress (or even stay up) we'll need a much better No 1 than him.

We have been so lucky to have Cooper and actually done brilliantly to keep our heads above water without his long absences. Goalkeepers like him are unicorns at this level. Like Azaz and Schumacher I think his true value will become much clearer when we attempt to replace him.
 
May 4, 2012
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We would have had to agree a fee with Everton because of his age, came through their youth and they offered him a deal but he said no
I think if we'd paid anything it would have been reported that we had. In most places it was reported that we'd signed him after "he'd left Everton". A lot of clubs in those situations where a player is moving to a lower level won't ask for a fee because they don't want to stop a player progressing. It's generally only where a club was desperate to keep a player where a fee would be agreed (or to go to a tribunal if no fee agreed).
 
Jan 6, 2004
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They say there are lies, damn lies and statistics.

All the same, I suggest you go look at some stats. The ones I've seen suggest he is head and shoulders the best keeper in this league, never mind at this club, and that's when he's been either half fit or playing in a terribly managed team for most of his games.

It's not just that though, there is enough empirical evidence to suggest Hazard isn't good enough. It's fine to say football is about opinions, but I'm not sure opinions should be at the expense of the actual evidence in front of us. I feel like it warrants a more in-depth summary.

There are a number problems with Hazard from what I've observed. He is extremely timid claiming crosses, rooted to his line and rarely venturing beyond his 6 yard box (although to be fair he did improve as the season went on). He is slow off his line and slow to recognise danger from through balls or to claim high balls over the top. This is something that Cooper absolutely excels at (just watch Saturday again - you only miss that skill when it's gone and he did it multiple times). It has caused all sorts of problems, where defenders are expecting the keeper to be there to claim it, but he hasn't been, or vice versa. His decision making is poor. I believe the uncertainty this creates has led directly to some of our absolute comedy defendng at times this year which has cost us untold points. Would the OG at Cardiff have happened with Cooper in goal? It's highly unlikely, he'd have called for it in no uncertain terms. There would have been none of the will he won't he come uncertainty. In fact we've seen little of that sort of defending with Cooper between sticks.

He is not great with the ball at his feet (not that Cooper has been at his best this year, but at least he's comfortable sweeping which helps massively beating the press). When the ball arrives, Hazard needs an eternity to do anything with it, and is often uncertain, meaning he cannot be relied upon to receive it in pressure situations. He seems to have that unfortunate accelarated clock in his head when he has it (I know, I had it too!) An additional thing, which I have also noticed, is he does not command his defence in the way Cooper does, or indeed in any way at all. We have been shocking defending set plays all season so I don't know how you can view that as a strength of his. The only time we've looked remotely solid from set plays is lately with - well with Cooper in goal. You can see him in the area directing traffic, and as has already been mentioned, he commands his area. Beyond that, I've seen Hazard spend an eternity lining up a wall in almost comedy fashion only for the oppo taker to somehow still find a gap (I seem to remember we conceded exactly like that).

Most importantly, indeed critically for our style of play, is the tempo Hazard sets when he gets the ball. As soon as Cooper has it in his hands (which is more often, because as already mentioned he actually claims crosses) he is looking to get us moving forward. Although it hasn't been at his previous standard by any means, his quick distribution dictates the tempo of our game. We quite literally look a different team with him in goal (as was the case last year). Hazard holds onto it, our CBs gather around the 6 yard box, then he either rolls it out 3 yards or punts it the length of the pitch. Now some mitigation here is that he may have been playing under instruction from Foster - where in a 4-3-3 we seemed to split the CBs to outside the box and get the team up the pitch, with Foster half the squad was in the 6 yard box for every goal kick, which made beating the press impossible. And mitigation for Foster is all teams try and draw the oppo out if there is no quick break on, you saw us do it on Saturday even. But you still have to be flexible and think fast and be able to recognise when a break is on, and have the ability to capitalize, and Hazard does not have this skill. I can scarce remember one occasion.

This all sounds harsh, and in truth it is. He's a decent backup who played his heart out for us and made some great saves, but being a good championship goalie is about a lot more than being a shot stopper. It's a critical role for the entire defence. If we want to progress (or even stay up) we'll need a much better No 1 than him.

We have been so lucky to have Cooper and actually done brilliantly to keep our heads above water without his long absences. Goalkeepers like him are unicorns at this level. Like Azaz and Schumacher I think his true value will become much clearer when we attempt to replace him.
I agree with all that, it is a good analysis, but given our limited resources it is not rational to tie up so much opportunity cost in the goalkeeper. It simply does not make any sense. Put another way, if Cooper was with another club we would not be signing him.

If the £8m rumours are true this could pay for 3 or 4 genuine championship standard players. If we are not sure about Hazard, we can get a better replacement with a fraction of the Cooper money - I recall there being a handful of decent keepers in league one or perhaps the promoted sides will be looking to refresh... That said of course if Cooper wishes to stay and is content with Argyle wages he should always be welcome to.
 
Jul 12, 2016
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I would be very surprised if Cooper and Morgs are with us next season. We will rebuild with mainly out of contract players and one or 2 eye catching signings, both smashing our own transfer record, probably for attacking players.
Cooper is still playing catch up after his injury and obviously loves the club. Better to keep him and increase his value. He is still young for a goalkeeper.
 
Jul 12, 2016
8,457
5,813
Getting £8M for Cooper with one year left on his contract is a decent bit of business. If it is Celtic, it's a great move for him and I expect him to be called up for an England squad at some point next season.
All speculation. Until we receive a firm bid we will have no idea what his value is.