2024/2025 Squad list | Page 6 | PASOTI
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2024/2025 Squad list

Jan 6, 2004
6,816
7,289
All speculation. Until we receive a firm bid we will have no idea what his value is.
I think the one year is a bit of red herring. Cooper is part of the argyle family, I dont think he would threaten to run his contract down, however much his agent might encourage him to. I think Argyle will be negotiating on the basis that Cooper is willing to extend.
 
Jul 12, 2016
8,457
5,815
I hope you are right, my player of the season and we should be offering a decent contract as a thank you.
Our defence were decent this season and he was the main man.
I just don’t understand this adulation for Gibson. He often leaves the door open in defence and hardly contributes anything when we have a corner/ set pieces. A good player but IMO over rated. If we were offered £4m by a club for him I ’d snap their hand off.
 
Mar 24, 2019
397
780
We would have had to agree a fee with Everton because of his age, came through their youth and they offered him a deal but he said no
Gibson didn’t come through the Everton academy…they signed him from Newcastle for a decent fee …I’m not sure we’d owe them anything if they released him
 
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Feb 8, 2005
4,546
2,706
They say there are lies, damn lies and statistics.

All the same, I suggest you go look at some stats. The ones I've seen suggest he is head and shoulders the best keeper in this league, never mind at this club, and that's when he's been either half fit or playing in a terribly managed team for most of his games.

It's not just that though, there is enough empirical evidence to suggest Hazard isn't good enough. It's fine to say football is about opinions, but I'm not sure opinions should be at the expense of the actual evidence in front of us. I feel like it warrants a more in-depth summary.

There are a number problems with Hazard from what I've observed. He is extremely timid claiming crosses, rooted to his line and rarely venturing beyond his 6 yard box (although to be fair he did improve as the season went on). He is slow off his line and slow to recognise danger from through balls or to claim high balls over the top. This is something that Cooper absolutely excels at (just watch Saturday again - you only miss that skill when it's gone and he did it multiple times). It has caused all sorts of problems, where defenders are expecting the keeper to be there to claim it, but he hasn't been, or vice versa. His decision making is poor. I believe the uncertainty this creates has led directly to some of our absolute comedy defendng at times this year which has cost us untold points. Would the OG at Cardiff have happened with Cooper in goal? It's highly unlikely, he'd have called for it in no uncertain terms. There would have been none of the will he won't he come uncertainty. In fact we've seen little of that sort of defending with Cooper between sticks.

He is not great with the ball at his feet (not that Cooper has been at his best this year, but at least he's comfortable sweeping which helps massively beating the press). When the ball arrives, Hazard needs an eternity to do anything with it, and is often uncertain, meaning he cannot be relied upon to receive it in pressure situations. He seems to have that unfortunate accelarated clock in his head when he has it (I know, I had it too!) An additional thing, which I have also noticed, is he does not command his defence in the way Cooper does, or indeed in any way at all. We have been shocking defending set plays all season so I don't know how you can view that as a strength of his. The only time we've looked remotely solid from set plays is lately with - well with Cooper in goal. You can see him in the area directing traffic, and as has already been mentioned, he commands his area. Beyond that, I've seen Hazard spend an eternity lining up a wall in almost comedy fashion only for the oppo taker to somehow still find a gap (I seem to remember we conceded exactly like that).

Most importantly, indeed critically for our style of play, is the tempo Hazard sets when he gets the ball. As soon as Cooper has it in his hands (which is more often, because as already mentioned he actually claims crosses) he is looking to get us moving forward. Although it hasn't been at his previous standard by any means, his quick distribution dictates the tempo of our game. We quite literally look a different team with him in goal (as was the case last year). Hazard holds onto it, our CBs gather around the 6 yard box, then he either rolls it out 3 yards or punts it the length of the pitch. Now some mitigation here is that he may have been playing under instruction from Foster - where in a 4-3-3 we seemed to split the CBs to outside the box and get the team up the pitch, with Foster half the squad was in the 6 yard box for every goal kick, which made beating the press impossible. And mitigation for Foster is all teams try and draw the oppo out if there is no quick break on, you saw us do it on Saturday even. But you still have to be flexible and think fast and be able to recognise when a break is on, and have the ability to capitalize, and Hazard does not have this skill. I can scarce remember one occasion.

This all sounds harsh, and in truth it is. He's a decent backup who played his heart out for us and made some great saves, but being a good championship goalie is about a lot more than being a shot stopper. It's a critical role for the entire defence. If we want to progress (or even stay up) we'll need a much better No 1 than him.

We have been so lucky to have Cooper and actually done brilliantly to keep our heads above water without his long absences. Goalkeepers like him are unicorns at this level. Like Azaz and Schumacher I think his true value will become much clearer when we attempt to replace him.
You are comparing Hazard with Cooper. Don't. We cannot afford to replace Cooper with another Cooper.

IF we sell Cooper than Hazard will be able to fight for his place against another keeper that will have to be brought in. Just don't expect another Cooper.
 
Apr 30, 2011
2,215
1,355
They say there are lies, damn lies and statistics.

All the same, I suggest you go look at some stats. The ones I've seen suggest he is head and shoulders the best keeper in this league, never mind at this club, and that's when he's been either half fit or playing in a terribly managed team for most of his games.

It's not just that though, there is enough empirical evidence to suggest Hazard isn't good enough. It's fine to say football is about opinions, but I'm not sure opinions should be at the expense of the actual evidence in front of us. I feel like it warrants a more in-depth summary.

There are a number problems with Hazard from what I've observed. He is extremely timid claiming crosses, rooted to his line and rarely venturing beyond his 6 yard box (although to be fair he did improve as the season went on). He is slow off his line and slow to recognise danger from through balls or to claim high balls over the top. This is something that Cooper absolutely excels at (just watch Saturday again - you only miss that skill when it's gone and he did it multiple times). It has caused all sorts of problems, where defenders are expecting the keeper to be there to claim it, but he hasn't been, or vice versa. His decision making is poor. I believe the uncertainty this creates has led directly to some of our absolute comedy defendng at times this year which has cost us untold points. Would the OG at Cardiff have happened with Cooper in goal? It's highly unlikely, he'd have called for it in no uncertain terms. There would have been none of the will he won't he come uncertainty. In fact we've seen little of that sort of defending with Cooper between sticks.

He is not great with the ball at his feet (not that Cooper has been at his best this year, but at least he's comfortable sweeping which helps massively beating the press). When the ball arrives, Hazard needs an eternity to do anything with it, and is often uncertain, meaning he cannot be relied upon to receive it in pressure situations. He seems to have that unfortunate accelarated clock in his head when he has it (I know, I had it too!) An additional thing, which I have also noticed, is he does not command his defence in the way Cooper does, or indeed in any way at all. We have been shocking defending set plays all season so I don't know how you can view that as a strength of his. The only time we've looked remotely solid from set plays is lately with - well with Cooper in goal. You can see him in the area directing traffic, and as has already been mentioned, he commands his area. Beyond that, I've seen Hazard spend an eternity lining up a wall in almost comedy fashion only for the oppo taker to somehow still find a gap (I seem to remember we conceded exactly like that).

Most importantly, indeed critically for our style of play, is the tempo Hazard sets when he gets the ball. As soon as Cooper has it in his hands (which is more often, because as already mentioned he actually claims crosses) he is looking to get us moving forward. Although it hasn't been at his previous standard by any means, his quick distribution dictates the tempo of our game. We quite literally look a different team with him in goal (as was the case last year). Hazard holds onto it, our CBs gather around the 6 yard box, then he either rolls it out 3 yards or punts it the length of the pitch. Now some mitigation here is that he may have been playing under instruction from Foster - where in a 4-3-3 we seemed to split the CBs to outside the box and get the team up the pitch, with Foster half the squad was in the 6 yard box for every goal kick, which made beating the press impossible. And mitigation for Foster is all teams try and draw the oppo out if there is no quick break on, you saw us do it on Saturday even. But you still have to be flexible and think fast and be able to recognise when a break is on, and have the ability to capitalize, and Hazard does not have this skill. I can scarce remember one occasion.

This all sounds harsh, and in truth it is. He's a decent backup who played his heart out for us and made some great saves, but being a good championship goalie is about a lot more than being a shot stopper. It's a critical role for the entire defence. If we want to progress (or even stay up) we'll need a much better No 1 than him.

We have been so lucky to have Cooper and actually done brilliantly to keep our heads above water without his long absences. Goalkeepers like him are unicorns at this level. Like Azaz and Schumacher I think his true value will become much clearer when we attempt to replace him.
Articulated my thoughts exactly.

Hazard is a decent no.2 at Championship level but unless he can somehow overcome the weaknesses he has (which i don't think are completely unsurmountable to be fair), and in spite of his excellent shot stopping ability, he will never be a good standard Championship level goal keeper.
 

Jon with no H

Auction Winner 👨‍⚖️
Apr 6, 2023
1,242
1,543
Bolton
Gibson didn’t come through the Everton academy…they signed him from Newcastle for a decent fee …I’m not sure we’d owe them anything if they released him
Also, if we hung on long enough, Everton might not be around to try to get anything anyway.
 
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Mar 23, 2011
4,598
403
29
Fareham
As crazy as this sounds, I wouldn't be too concerned if we end up facing Morgan next year. Put 2 men on him and force him on his right, as player he is quite one dimensional. But still young and can improve obviously..
 
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Apr 30, 2011
2,215
1,355
As crazy as this sounds, I wouldn't be too concerned if we end up facing Morgan next year. Put 2 men on him and force him on his right, as player he is quite one dimensional. But still young and can improve obviously..
Tactically he needed a change to get the best out of him. He scored many goals last season from the centre of the pitch where this season, he was cutting in onto his left foot more often to score.

Like you say, teams started doubling up on him, what we didn't do was introduce a tactic to either negate it or take advantage. IE - play him on the right or more centrally or introduce a phase of play when he is up against two players, he is either encouraged to go around them in his right foot (which he did on occasions) or have another player exploiting the space vacated by the player 'doubling up'. We never seemed to master that.
 
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Feb 8, 2005
4,546
2,706
During these days of Championship football we must be prepared to lose some of our best players, in order to survive. That is now "The Argyle Way".

In order to improve, we must move on our best players in order to get in others than we can improve and then sell on again, all the time being careful that we do not lose too much and find ourselves at the the bottom of the pile.

If Cooper goes, we get in other players. If Whittaker goes, we get in other players. If Gibson goes, we get in other players.

We mustn't leave ourselves short of decent players, but it will enable the club to improve our playing stock overall, and consequently improved players should mean improved pointage, moving us up the table hopefully.

It is a risky way of dealing with the aspirations of the owner, (and us supporters) but it is the only way we can improve our lot in this division. We aren't rich, we don't have a huge stadium, but we do have a smart owner. Let's hope we can carry out his wishes and get away from the base of this so very difficult league.

And don't fall in love with any of our players, they may not be here as long as you think.
 
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Aug 8, 2014
608
515
I just don’t understand this adulation for Gibson. He often leaves the door open in defence and hardly contributes anything when we have a corner/ set pieces. A good player but IMO over rated. If we were offered £4m by a club for him I ’d snap their hand off.
Absolute solid defender, exactly what we've been missing over the last few years
 
Jul 12, 2016
8,457
5,815
Absolute solid defender, exactly what we've been missing over the last few years
Can’t see it. In some games at HP this season he has given the opposition far too much space. Look at the goals we have conceded and at a guess I would say most are from his side of the pitch
 
Sep 20, 2005
1,548
1,634
Stockholm
You are comparing Hazard with Cooper. Don't. We cannot afford to replace Cooper with another Cooper.

IF we sell Cooper than Hazard will be able to fight for his place against another keeper that will have to be brought in. Just don't expect another Cooper.
We won't get another Cooper, but that doesn't mean Hazard is good enough either. He isn't, as shown by Rowland's thorough and excellent analysis.

Even if we compare Hazard with other keepers in the league, the stats in the thread the other day showed how Hazard was an average shot stopper and poor at commanding his area. Add that to the fact that he is poor with his feet and we want to play out through our keeper, then we need better as a no. 1. He's a decent no.2, but that's it unless he improves several aspects of his game.
 
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Belfast Green

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Jam First
✅ Evergreen
Jun 23, 2017
820
1,227
65
Belfast
During these days of Championship football we must be prepared to lose some of our best players, in order to survive. That is now "The Argyle Way".

In order to improve, we must move on our best players in order to get in others than we can improve and then sell on again, all the time being careful that we do not lose too much and find ourselves at the the bottom of the pile.

If Cooper goes, we get in other players. If Whittaker goes, we get in other players. If Gibson goes, we get in other players.

We mustn't leave ourselves short of decent players, but it will enable the club to improve our playing stock overall, and consequently improved players should mean improved pointage, moving us up the table hopefully.

It is a risky way of dealing with the aspirations of the owner, (and us supporters) but it is the only way we can improve our lot in this division. We aren't rich, we don't have a huge stadium, but we do have a smart owner. Let's hope we can carry out his wishes and get away from the base of this so very difficult league.

And don't fall in love with any of our players, they may not be here as long as you think.
Except Joe, we can fall in love with Joe. Most of us have. 💚
 
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