Chris Powell sacked by Southend

[Knibbsworth]

Clubs are flapping.
The jury was out on Powell when he was appointed and his football has not appeased the natives in any way. To be fair to him he was still dealing with Phil Browns legacy of a divided changing room and stupid long contracts for deadwood.

Yep, dreaded long contracts for deadwood. People criticise Adams for his short termist 'lets see where we are in the summer' contracts policy, but he clearly likes the flexibility of clearing out players who aren't up to where he needs them to be.

We've lost Bradley and Threlkeld, but been able to move Marc McCallum, Nauris Bulvitis, Jordan Slew, Ryan Donaldson, Jimmy Spencer, Connor Smith, Gary Miller, ATS, Paul Paton, Peter Grant etc. when DA feels there are better options available. (Or that they aren't value for money.)

Where would we be and what players might we not have been able to sign if they were all on 2 or 3 year deals?

 

[Ollieargyle9]

Clubs are flapping.
The jury was out on Powell when he was appointed and his football has not appeased the natives in any way. To be fair to him he was still dealing with Phil Browns legacy of a divided changing room and stupid long contracts for deadwood.

Yep, dreaded long contracts for deadwood. People criticise Adams for his short termist 'lets see where we are in the summer' contracts policy, but he clearly likes the flexibility of clearing out players who aren't up to where he needs them to be.

We've lost Bradley and Threlkeld, but been able to move Marc McCallum, Nauris Bulvitis, Jordan Slew, Ryan Donaldson, Jimmy Spencer, Connor Smith, Gary Miller, ATS, Paul Paton, Peter Grant etc. when DA feels there are better options available. (Or that they aren't value for money.)

Where would we be and what players might we not have been able to sign if they were all on 2 or 3 year deals?

Who did we miss out on because we were only willing to offer short term deals?

Every transfer window we hear that Adams has only been able to sign his 4th/5th/6th choice players. I'm sure part of the reason we can only get our hands on the cloggers you name above is that they're the only ones willing to take such poor offers, mainly because other teams are offering their betters longer and higher terms.

 

[DartPilgrim]

Clubs are flapping.
The jury was out on Powell when he was appointed and his football has not appeased the natives in any way. To be fair to him he was still dealing with Phil Browns legacy of a divided changing room and stupid long contracts for deadwood.

Yep, dreaded long contracts for deadwood. People criticise Adams for his short termist 'lets see where we are in the summer' contracts policy, but he clearly likes the flexibility of clearing out players who aren't up to where he needs them to be.

We've lost Bradley and Threlkeld, but been able to move Marc McCallum, Nauris Bulvitis, Jordan Slew, Ryan Donaldson, Jimmy Spencer, Connor Smith, Gary Miller, ATS, Paul Paton, Peter Grant etc. when DA feels there are better options available. (Or that they aren't value for money.)

Where would we be and what players might we not have been able to sign if they were all on 2 or 3 year deals?

Who did we miss out on because we were only willing to offer short term deals?

Every transfer window we hear that Adams has only been able to sign his 4th/5th/6th choice players. I'm sure part of the reason we can only get our hands on the cloggers you name above is that they're the only ones willing to take such poor offers, mainly because other teams are offering their betters longer and higher terms.

Interesting , who do we hear these " facts " from ?

 

[cheshiregreen]

Another one gone. Is Cocko only at Rovers until the end of the season? Would surely be interested in this job, given his links to Southend as number two to Phil Brown. Who is also out of work. Funny old game.

Or maybe another ex Argyle defender with longer links to Roots Hall is a contender?

Brown has a job in India currently.

 

[Pogleswoody]

Another one gone. Is Cocko only at Rovers until the end of the season? Would surely be interested in this job, given his links to Southend as number two to Phil Brown. Who is also out of work. Funny old game.

Or maybe another ex Argyle defender with longer links to Roots Hall is a contender?

Brown has a job in India currently.

Was he 'The First Man' you thought of?
Look to him to 'build' a team?

 

[chunkymonkey78]

What with Powell gone and Moore gone at WBA, is Sol Campbell the solitary black manager in the professional leagues of England?

Why is that even relevant?

 

[r4h4al]

Think it's harsh, I think it's because the table is is tight with so many clubs down there, but with only 1 or 2 wins they could be in a good position.

 

[lyndhurst green]

What with Powell gone and Moore gone at WBA, is Sol Campbell the solitary black manager in the professional leagues of England?

Why is that even relevant?

Because managers/coaches of colour are massively and disproportionately underrepresented at the professional level. Which I suspect you know, but wish to antagonise.

 

[chunkymonkey78]

Wish to antagonise? Because I dared to comment on a post about race and asked what that had to do with their managerial or coaching ability?

Ok skating on thin ice here by the sounds of it but.....

You mean to say that the same 92 league clubs that regularly employ BAME members as players without so much as an afterthought actively discourage employing them as a manager?

Maybe they're just not the prime candidate for the job?

After 30 seconds research, BAME managers or coaches either still in a job, high profile or recently left.....

Powell, Maamria, Kolo Toure, Hughton, Ince, Campbell, Vieira, Makelele, Luhukay, Moore, Espirito Santos, Curle, Hasselbaink. Also Ferdinand was/is director of football at QPR, pictured with Ramsey who managed England u20's.

Is there an actual statistic that shows how many former players make it into management that is then broken down into how many are BAME?

I'm scratching my head if there is a bias as to why clubs would willingly employ BAME members as players but not as coaching staff?

 

[lyndhurst green]

Wish to antagonise? Because I dared to comment on a post about race and asked what that had to do with their managerial or coaching ability?

Ok skating on thin ice here by the sounds of it but.....

You mean to say that the same 92 league clubs that regularly employ BAME members as players without so much as an afterthought actively discourage employing them as a manager?

Maybe they're just not the prime candidate for the job?

After 30 seconds research, BAME managers or coaches either still in a job, high profile or recently left.....

Powell, Maamria, Kolo Toure, Hughton, Ince, Campbell, Vieira, Makelele, Luhukay, Moore, Espirito Santos, Curle, Hasselbaink. Also Ferdinand was/is director of football at QPR, pictured with Ramsey who managed England u20's.

Is there an actual statistic that shows how many former players make it into management that is then broken down into how many are BAME?

I'm scratching my head if there is a bias as to why clubs would willingly employ BAME members as players but not as coaching staff?

I don’t fully follow your argument here, but I believe you are saying that coaches and managers aren’t taking advantage of the opportunities available to them. I would argue that they are simply not afforded to them. The reasons for this are discussed by evidently all except those who have any real influence.

Of the 14 coaches of colour you list, only two are currently employed in the top four leagues. Two of them have never been a manager. And Paul Ince hasn’t managed any club for over 5 years. So I think you helped make my point.

Perhaps some players of colour are simply not interested in continuing to work in an industry where direct and indirect racial abuse continue to be an issue. If you spend 15-20 years playing in front of morons, why would you want to carry on in the dug out?

 

[chunkymonkey78]

Not really. I'm asking why you'd think clubs don't give these people opportunities when 25/30 per cent of players are of colour.

I'm saying I don't understand why these people would then not be further employed by these clubs if the colour of their skin was an issue.

Curle and Maamria are still at their clubs so there's more than the two you state already. You said managers/coaches, I found 13/14 in a 30 second flick through Google, yes some aren't employed but they have been employed by high profile clubs or even been national team captains, or have recently left employment.

Having read more on it there are articles on how football is changing it's ways and employing more BAME coaches etc

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegr ... still/amp/

There was also an article from Makelele that said he believes some people don't get to these positions because they give up too easily, didn't get a link for that one.

Anyhow, all of this aside, my point with the post you took exception to was solely to point out, if they're not the right person for the job they shouldn't get it or keep it just because they tick the right PC boxes. I know from personal experience the hassle that employing the wrong person because of those boxes causes and I see it daily in my working life.

Are you saying you think Powell should have kept his job then, looking at Southend's predicament this season? Do you think he was still the best person for the job?

Agree with your last point btw.

 

[lyndhurst green]

Not really. I'm asking why you'd think clubs don't give these people opportunities when 25/30 per cent of players are of colour.

I'm saying I don't understand why these people would then not be further employed by these clubs if the colour of their skin was an issue.

Curle and Maamria are still at their clubs so there's more than the two you state already. You said managers/coaches, I found 13/14 in a 30 second flick through Google, yes some aren't employed but they have been employed by high profile clubs or even been national team captains, or have recently left employment.

Having read more on it there are articles on how football is changing it's ways and employing more BAME coaches etc

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegr ... still/amp/

There was also an article from Makelele that said he believes some people don't get to these positions because they give up too easily, didn't get a link for that one.

Anyhow, all of this aside, my point with the post you took exception to was solely to point out, if they're not the right person for the job they shouldn't get it or keep it just because they tick the right PC boxes. I know from personal experience the hassle that employing the wrong person because of those boxes causes and I see it daily in my working life.

Are you saying you think Powell should have kept his job then, looking at Southend's predicament this season? Do you think he was still the best person for the job?

Agree with your last point btw.

Fair enough, getting your argument more now, thanks. Why do players of colour not get the opportunities on retirement that white players do? Honestly, not sure. The transition to coaching does not appear to be there and needs addressing.

Powell, based on results, probably deserved the sack. The colour of his skin was not a factor there. I would argue the colour of his skin made it harder to get that role in the first place, however. Or if not the Southend role, given his links to the club, then other roles in the past. I do not think it is disputable that coaches of colour are simply not afforded the same opportunities as white coaches and the fact that coaches of colour have to be googled continued to support this.

Anyhoww, thanks for engaging and apologies for suggesting antagonism, I can see this was misguided.

 

[Knibbsworth]

I don't think describing anyone as 'of colour' will win you many friends. Diane Abbott was upset about being called a coloured woman recently, it's an outdated term.

As others have said, Powell's results and form put his job in danger, nothing else. If black potential managers aren't thought much of in Southend, Powell wouldn't have got the job in the first place. It simply isn't a side issue that needs shoehorning into this story.

 

[lyndhurst green]

I don't think describing anyone as 'of colour' will win you many friends. Diane Abbott was upset about being called a coloured woman recently, it's an outdated term.

As others have said, Powell's results and form put his job in danger, nothing else. If black potential managers aren't thought much of in Southend, Powell wouldn't have got the job in the first place. It simply isn't a side issue that needs shoehorning into this story.

Not the same thing. I would never use the term you mention in reference in relation to the story about Diane Abbott.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/bimadewunmi/co ... -of-colour

And as for Powell’s sacking, read my most recent thread.

 

[Knibbsworth]

Fair enough lyndhurst. 'People of colour' though, I can't see the distinction. But as long as everyone stays happy.