Manchester Green":3vynk613 said:
GreenSam":3vynk613 said:
Lord Tisdale":3vynk613 said:
2) Portugal have got two WC semis to their name and long periods of abject mediocrity other than that, plus they cheat.
And aside from one WC win on home soil and one WC semi, what have we ever done aside long periods of abject mediocrity?
We're no more of a major football nation than Portugal. We need to stop living in 1966, we have no right to be amongst the likes of Spain, Argentina, Brazil, Germany, Holland etc. We're just not a good nation, at least not good like you think we are.
Last 16 of the world cup is a good finish for us in my opinion.
Last 16 = good? So you think we're actually lucky to be in the top 16?
I'm negative about England, but that's just silly.
Not lucky but standard. Expected. Lets look at the team for the World Cup.
James (not good enough for any more than top 16, in fact I'd say worse than top 16)
Johnson (see above)
Terry (past his best)
King/Carragher/Upson (Carragher past his best, the other two no better than top 16, Upson worse than)
Ashley Cole (fair enough, he's quality)
Milner (Probably no better than top 16 although he's a debatable one in the eyes of many)
Gerrard (fair enough, probably better than top 16)
Lampard(same as above)
Lennon (no better than top 16)
Rooney (fair enough, he is world class)
Heskey/Defoe/Crouch (none of them any better than top 16. Defoe is the only one who goes close, the others aren't even close at all)
Tell me that team honestly deserved to be amongst the top 8 teams in the world- I think last 16 was "par", I really do.
Let's not forget we had a lot of half fit players too-Terry being one, Ashley Cole coming back from injury being another.
Gerrard, Terry, Rooney and Cole were also at the centre of off the pitch exposures from the press- I know that sounds like excuse making but I think it's more along the lines of reality making. That stuff DOES make a difference. If their marriages are falling apart due to their private lives being all over the press, that will affect their frame of mind This also is not a variable applicable to all teams as NO country's media likes to wreck the team's chances as much as the english media- find me an example of where a country's media has, cause quite simply it happens nowhere else. Affairs and smut are our speciality.
Now this sounds like excuse making but it isnt cause I don't do it for every tournament but as it so happens, they are actual, real life reasons (missing regular players, some of the playing ones either unfit or distracted) that would put us at something of a handicap, I am sure you'd all agree.
Now with that team (only Rooney, A.Cole, and to an extent Lampard and Gerrard being above your average top 16 team) and the handicaps that I have previously mentioned, why should we really be expected to be last 4 or even to be charitable, last 8??
We DID have a lot of bad luck, and the likes of Carragher, Lennon, Heskey, James and Johnson are not anything even close to players who were suitable for the best 8 teams in the world. If anything I'd say they're not even top 16 level and they were all STARTERS for England. I think people expect us to be last 8/4 just cause of who we are, and blame anything less on the management. Why is this? For all the reasons I've just said, I think last 16 was a par/good performance for England at the 2010 world cup. I said it and I stand by it.
Forget who the manager is, we just simply ain't that good! This applies in my mind to Euro 2012 too, whether we have Harry or whoever in charge.