John Francis, Burnley, and THAT play-off....

[greenpilled]

All I can say, is that it was just as well Jack Leslie played for Argyle, when he did, and not in the more recent period of racial abuse in football stadia.

I'm surprised he never signed for a West Midlands club they are just sooooo tolerant up there!!

Kelvin Mellor racially abused for his performances?? That's a bit of a a stretch for me!! :think:

S'funny that Reuben Reid got criticised for sometimes being lazy and not putting a full shift in.
Can't you just remember the similar cries around HP directed at Dwight Marshall?? :think:

Reid, Jason Banton, Freddie Ladapo were all targeted on social media for 'having an attitude' or words to that effect.

There have been a few similar posts on here recently about Jerome Opoku - in a thread on the loanees someone suggested that the players had been uncommitted 'especially the two from Fulham' (I think anyone able to discern a notable difference in the character/professionalism of Opoku vs any of the other loanees obviously has a keener eye or is privy to more detailed inside information than me)

I think explicit racism, at football and elsewhere, is mercifully dying out. But the (I think subconscious and not at all intentionally racist) judgements on the character of the likes of Reid, Banton, Ladapo, Opoku etc compared with - to pick two extremely obvious examples - Luke McCormick and David Goodwillie shows why black players still feel they get an unfair deal.

 

[East End Green]

It wasn't that long ago - 2012? - that the club were warned or disciplined by the FL because of racist chants in the Devonport End towards Bihlel Mohsni of Southend

 

[edengreen]

Don't think that was based on Colour ! Chris Hargreaves used to revel in being called it !! :greensmile:

 

[IJN]

All I can say, is that it was just as well Jack Leslie played for Argyle, when he did, and not in the more recent period of racial abuse in football stadia.

I'm surprised he never signed for a West Midlands club they are just sooooo tolerant up there!!

Kelvin Mellor racially abused for his performances?? That's a bit of a a stretch for me!! :think:

S'funny that Reuben Reid got criticised for sometimes being lazy and not putting a full shift in.
Can't you just remember the similar cries around HP directed at Dwight Marshall?? :think:

Reid, Jason Banton, Freddie Ladapo were all targeted on social media for 'having an attitude' or words to that effect.

There have been a few similar posts on here recently about Jerome Opoku - in a thread on the loanees someone suggested that the players had been uncommitted 'especially the two from Fulham' (I think anyone able to discern a notable difference in the character/professionalism of Opoku vs any of the other loanees obviously has a keener eye or is privy to more detailed inside information than me)

I think explicit racism, at football and elsewhere, is mercifully dying out. But the (I think subconscious and not at all intentionally racist) judgements on the character of the likes of Reid, Banton, Ladapo, Opoku etc compared with - to pick two extremely obvious examples - Luke McCormick and David Goodwillie shows why black players still feel they get an unfair deal.

See this is where I have a real problem. I call Ladapo out as in my opinion and from what I heard happened, he was a nasty prat who wanted nothing to do with playing for Argyle but was made to get on the coach to Accrington.

So are you saying I’m a racist?

This is where snowflakery comes into it,

I am an anti racist BUT I’m also very anti Ladapo for the reason that I have stated.

It makes my blood boil when the two are mixed.

I don’t like a few players that have disgraced the shirt and Ladapo who happens to be black is just one of them. McLean is another, so am I now anti Scots? As for Swan, am I also anti Northern?

The thing that connects those three names (in my book) is they dissed PAFC and the green shirt!!!!!

 

[Knibbsworth]

Stop being naive, our own players get racially abused. Reuben Reid was called a "lazy black bar steward" regularly, almost every match |I went to.
And if you study this site, regularly the scapegoat for poor performances is the coloured guys, Reuben, Kelvin Mellor etc etc etc.

Yep, Gary Miller, Dominic Blizzard, Kenny Cooper, Tony Capaldi, Steve Maclean the list is endless.

I see what you mean, all the disliked players do seem to be players of colour.

Perhaps Reuben and Nouble got called lazy (by some) because they were about 15 stone, didn't move much and didn't waste energy defending and closing down the way other players do.

This might explain why they get labelled lazy but Panutche Camara does not. Just an idea.

And if you actually heard that phrase aimed at Reuben at every football match you went to and didn't report it, then good grief.

 

[The Night Riveria]

The worst racial abuse I remember at Home Park was directed at Ian Benjamin when he was playing for Northampton in the late 80's at Argyle.For me this was worse because it was coming from a couple of families, I used to regularly stand near on the Mayflower terrace.The worst abuse was coming from the more senior members of the families(a women in her 70's for example). Unfortunately these views can easily pass on through the generations I believe.
I still see some of these people now at Home Park but have not heard anything remotely racist .Don't believe racism has gone away though.

 

[signalspast]

The worst racism heard wasn't what was said but the position the person held. It was after we had beaten West Brom in the fa Cup run and waiting alongside the station for the special train back. Police sergeant said in a joking mood have worked out why and how u beat us, you all have white faces.

 

[Beyton Green]

I was there and all I can remember was another huge expectation Argyle fail to show up disappointment game. Lots of those over the years. Bit like Wembley recently.

 

[Vampires11]

Wow, stirred up a hornet's nest of defensive comments on here. Mighty sad how many poeple having a dig and deriding my comments - by inference you are supporting racism.

Racism is alive and well, being COLOURED myself I know this to be true. And coloured is acceptable, in UK HR laws, because that's my sphere of employment.

Calling Reuben lazy, fine, black illegitimate is not - but this has been neatly sidestepped. And yes, it was reported, but no actions taken.

Oh, and finally, (1) Shropshire is not the West Midlands (2) I suffer less racism in Wolverhampton or Birmingham than Plymouth.

Tin hat firmly on

 

[Pogleswoody]

Wow, stirred up a hornet's nest of defensive comments on here. Mighty sad how many poeple having a dig and deriding my comments - by inference you are supporting racism.

Racism is alive and well, being COLOURED myself I know this to be true. And coloured is acceptable, in UK HR laws, because that's my sphere of employment.

Calling Reuben lazy, fine, black bar steward is not - but this has been neatly sidestepped. And yes, it was reported, but no actions taken.

Oh, and finally, (1) Shropshire is not the West Midlands (2) I suffer less racism in Wolverhampton or Birmingham than Plymouth.

Tin hat firmly on

Tighten the chin strap on that hat Vamps!!

Because people disagree with your view they are, by inference, supporting racism? Really?
I thought Reuben was lazy because he was lazy. Others disagree with me (fair enough).
I was referring to hearing what was shouted at HP. I never heard anything remotely racist aimed at Kelvin Mellor for his mistakes. He's a pro, he makes costly mistakes? I criticise him. Other people sidestepped my comments by referring to comments on social media. I wasn't referring to that.
If 'Coloured' is acceptable why did Greg Clarke resign from the FA?
And Shropshire? I may have missed that but I can't see it on this thread?

That's my comments, no visible damage to your hat!! :thumbs:

 

[Devongreenowl]

I think Pogles is right re the use of the coloured term. I can’t see any respectable HR department in the Uk condoning its use and more often than not it would lead to some sort of formal sanction, certainly in the public services anyway. Maybe ok at Wernham Hogg!

I would be very interested to see any HR guidance which says it’s an acceptable term to use.

This is the most recent court case I have found on the subject.

https://www.peoplemanagement.co.uk/news ... oured#gref

ALSO

https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/en/topics ... d-language

 

[German Shepherd]

What I don't understand is that calling someone 'coloured' is totally unacceptable which I get but how come the phrase 'people of colour' is now an acceptable description ? I've heard it on the news many times recently, even black people using it.

 

[Pogleswoody]

What I don't understand is that calling someone 'coloured' is totally unacceptable which I get but how come the phrase 'people of colour' is now an acceptable description ? I've heard it on the news many times recently, even black people using it.

The problem with language is that evolves and also, depending where/when it comes from it has nuances of meaning/emphasis.

'Coloured' was used in South Africa and Southerm USA to 'separate' 'them' from 'whites'. Viewed as a negative usage.

My understanding is that 'people of colour' was coined by the black activists in the USA to refer to themselves and people like themselves. Viewed as a positive usage.

Therefore one is 'acceptable' the other term isn't.

Not easy is it? But, if a person or a group/class of people say: 'Don't call us that, call us this'.
I will then adopt the 'this' in my language.

 

[Knibbsworth]

Wow, stirred up a hornet's nest of defensive comments on here. Mighty sad how many poeple having a dig and deriding my comments - by inference you are supporting racism.

So people ‘support racism’ because they point out that Tony Capaldi, Steve Maclean, Gary Miller and Kenny Cooper were unpopular too, called lazy and crap, and routinely booed. These issues aren’t restricted to black players but at times they do get caught up in them. On the other hand Toumani Diagouraga and Panutche Camara were well respected, well loved players. Onismor Bhasera was voted player of the season. This theme of Plymouth Argyle being a racist bunch of supporters just doesn’t add up.

Reuben had an attitude. He scored 20+ goals a season so it wasn’t a problem for most, certainly not me. But he didn’t waste energy chasing inaccurate balls whereas Ryan Brunt did. Adams observed this so he dropped the goal scorer and played the other with the high workrate. Before you call Derek Adams a ‘racist’, he brought in Jamille Matt and tried to sign him, brought in Diagouraga and tried to sign him.

I can only reiterate that if you heard Reuben abused in that manner every single match like you said, that you reported it like you said, and nothing happened like you said, then you have good grounds to get the police involved. Why didn’t you take an audio recording if this was so loud and regularly occurring?

How come in all my time following Argyle I never heard such language used against ANY Argyle player, but you seemed to hear it every single game targeted at the same player?

Could it possibly be that you are exaggerating somewhat?