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Klaidi Lolos

Mar 14, 2009
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“He’s never going to be a natural goalscorer. A different formation - a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3 - could suit him perfectly I think.

I find this statement from the article a bit worrying. Almost like dismissing these formations. If he thought those formations might of suited him why not in the last two games play him and change the formation to see his impact. Not only him, but there are others that simply might of played better with a different role in a different system. Yes we did switch to a 4-4-2 but why not adapt that during games and say for the last 45 mins of Sunderland & Gillingham give Lolos a run in a formation Lowe obviously thinks might of suited him. It wasn’t like we were playing well anyhow in Lowe’s preferred systems.
 

jerryatricjanner

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edengreen":2ji26dqo said:
Ryan Dickson another one released who did well
He had a reasonable lower league career but did nothing to prove Holloway wrong in releasing him. We were in the Championship at the time and he went to league 2 and then league 1 to play his football.
There is barely a handful of players in my 56 years following Argyle who have been released as youngsters and gone on to better things.
 
Feb 8, 2005
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Metal_Green_Mickey":1bc67x2p said:
“He’s never going to be a natural goalscorer. A different formation - a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3 - could suit him perfectly I think.

I find this statement from the article a bit worrying. Almost like dismissing these formations. If he thought those formations might of suited him why not in the last two games play him and change the formation to see his impact. Not only him, but there are others that simply might of played better with a different role in a different system. Yes we did switch to a 4-4-2 but why not adapt that during games and say for the last 45 mins of Sunderland & Gillingham give Lolos a run in a formation Lowe obviously thinks might of suited him. It wasn’t like we were playing well anyhow in Lowe’s preferred systems.


Is it really plausible for a manager to change his whole team's philosophy for the sake of one young player who, even if he did well under such circumstances, was not going to be part of the manager's squad because the manager will not play in such formations in the future.

Ryan Lowe, nay, Plymouth Argyle, have a way of playing, which is taught throughout the whole of the Club's playing staff, from the youngest to the first team squad, and nothing will interfere with that philosophy, MGM, as much as you want him to change his outlook. It is a Plymouth Argyle trait, and will be rigidly adhered to. It ensures that each player will know exactly what is required of them when they start knocking on the first team's door, now and in the future and even if/when Lowe leaves the Club.

We better get used to it. It has been agreed from boardroom level down.

Any new manager will have to play the game the Plymouth way or he will be out the door pretty sharpish.

In other words the new manager will have to adapt to the Club, and not the other way around, as is usual practice these days.
 
Mar 14, 2009
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jimsing":3n5z9e6g said:
Metal_Green_Mickey":3n5z9e6g said:
“He’s never going to be a natural goalscorer. A different formation - a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3 - could suit him perfectly I think.

I find this statement from the article a bit worrying. Almost like dismissing these formations. If he thought those formations might of suited him why not in the last two games play him and change the formation to see his impact. Not only him, but there are others that simply might of played better with a different role in a different system. Yes we did switch to a 4-4-2 but why not adapt that during games and say for the last 45 mins of Sunderland & Gillingham give Lolos a run in a formation Lowe obviously thinks might of suited him. It wasn’t like we were playing well anyhow in Lowe’s preferred systems.


Is it really plausible for a manager to change his whole team's philosophy for the sake of one young player who, even if he did well under such circumstances, was not going to be part of the manager's squad because the manager will not play in such formations in the future.

Ryan Lowe, nay, Plymouth Argyle, have a way of playing, which is taught throughout the whole of the Club's playing staff, from the youngest to the first team squad, and nothing will interfere with that philosophy, MGM, as much as you want him to change his outlook. It is a Plymouth Argyle trait, and will be rigidly adhered to. It ensures that each player will know exactly what is required of them when they start knocking on the first team's door, now and in the future and even if/when Lowe leaves the Club.

We better get used to it. It has been agreed from boardroom level down.

Any new manager will have to play the game the Plymouth way or he will be out the door pretty sharpish.

In other words the new manager will have to adapt to the Club, and not the other way around, as is usual practice these days.

First question ld ask is what is his/our playing philosophy. I’ve heard him talk about it but it’s not represented on the pitch. Remember we been playing sideways & backwards across the back 3 all season. And the season before. Yet after the Ipswich game Lowe told us in his post match interview he doesn’t want his players to do this. I’m thinking, great, then why have they been doing it all season? And if this is the case why did it continue to happen after this when against Shrewsbury l remember Conor Grants horrendous pass back to Opoku/Cooper.

He has already changed his philosophy the moment he went from a 3-5-2 to a 4-4-2. It was more direct. The whole idea was from the first team down to the youth set ups we would be playing the same way. I somehow don’t think a CM in a youth side ends up hugging the left side of the pitch as much as Mayor. I very much doubt a full back or centre back punts it down the channels as much as we started to do when results turned bad.

It’s ok saying you have a philosophy. It’s another thing actually executing that philosophy. If the philosophy was to give away the ball in our third of the pitch, be lopsided in terms of our attacking play and have no end product in terms of the final third then l guess job done.

I know the philosophy is to play good football. However, you can’t even argue what we saw was mediocre standard.

As for Lolos all l said was why didn’t the manager bring him onto the pitch in the second half of Sunderland and Gillingham and adapt his tactics. They were meaningless games. We played terrible in both. So really would it of hurt to try him in a different position. The same goes for other players in our squad. Why not of put players like Edwards back at CM with Camara and see if there was a partnership there. I mean it’s these type of games you can experiment in and are more competitive than friendlies.
 
Jul 28, 2020
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Argyle have always had an issue with failing to nurture young talent throughout my time supporting the club.

Part of the problem has been a lack of competitive reserve team games. I thought this had been resolved when Ian Holloway came up with the sensible strategy of loaning youngsters out to gain first team experience, as was the case with Ashley Barnes , who joined Eastbourne Borough on a season long loan , aged 19, doing very well for them.

There has always been a problem with the club discarding talented young players- at regular intervals. Darren Garner only played 27 first team games for Argyle before forging a successful career at Rotherham United, in the heart of their midfield- 268 games. Ryan Dickson, has already been mentioned - only made a handful of appearances before developing as an outstanding left wing back at Brentford in league one.

Robbie Pethick, a right wing back ( I think it was Pompey, where he ended up), and Mark Clode ( who Stilton refused to give air time to) , a left wing back- who played over 100 games for Swansea- are two players who left Argyle on free transfers without any first team experience.

There is John Brimacombe, who left on a free transfer, spent 5+ years in the non- league circuit,, before re- joining under Dave Smith and doing a very good job for us in the championship.

I’m sure there are others I’ve missed...
 

Mark Pedlar

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Jul 28, 2010
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The reason that Argyle have struggled to bring talent through is that the best local youngsters are taken into the academies of Premiership clubs. Those that are left over are just that, leftovers. No matter how much polishing you do, you are limited by the individuals natural abilities.

Parents will always be looking to get their charges into the highest structure they can. Unless the club can show that there is a route into the higher echelons through Argyle this will always be the case. If we were to sell a Cooper or a Jephcott to a "big" club then the situation may change.

It starts with a manager prepared to give youth a chance but even then we need to be sure that the individual youths are worthy of a chance, and to a great extent that is in their hands.
 

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Mark Pedlar":fthf1qmb said:
The reason that Argyle have struggled to bring talent through is that the best local youngsters are taken into the academies of Premiership clubs. Those that are left over are just that, leftovers. No matter how much polishing you do, you are limited by the individuals natural abilities.

Parents will always be looking to get their charges into the highest structure they can. Unless the club can show that there is a route into the higher echelons through Argyle this will always be the case. If we were to sell a Cooper or a Jephcott to a "big" club then the situation may change.

It starts with a manager prepared to give youth a chance but even then we need to be sure that the individual youths are worthy of a chance, and to a great extent that is in their hands.

Yeah, yeah, Nah.

Sure, the PL would hope to get all the best young talent but they won't get them all.

Also, there are a raft of players who will probably never make PL grade but will be valuable assets for the famous Argyle (or should it be necessary) "other" championship clubs.

Yes, I am optimistic

:scarf:
 
Aug 5, 2015
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No they won’t get them all. And those they do aren’t by definition necessarily great. Look at the dross we’ve had from premiership academies recently. It takes luck and skill to spot and produce a wee nugget. Let’s hope we have the right people who can now
 
Jul 28, 2020
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Mark Pedlar":3nwxb4js said:
The reason that Argyle have struggled to bring talent through is that the best local youngsters are taken into the academies of Premiership clubs. Those that are left over are just that, leftovers. No matter how much polishing you do, you are limited by the individuals natural abilities.

Parents will always be looking to get their charges into the highest structure they can. Unless the club can show that there is a route into the higher echelons through Argyle this will always be the case. If we were to sell a Cooper or a Jephcott to a "big" club then

It starts with a manager prepared to give youth a chance but even then we need to be sure that the individual youths are worthy of a chance, and to a great extent that is in their hands.

Good points those.I think that Argyle have shown that the club is a viable alternative route into the PL- Gary Megson, Martin Hodge ( in the days of ‘elm lodge’- the apprentice hostel, wasn’t it ?) , paul mariner ( although NOT a youth product), spring to mind - in addition to Dan Gosling, more recently.

If you look at the players who Argyle have discarded ( and probably shouldn’t have ) plus the players that have made it - it’s encouraging to know that we’re probably producing one first team player, on average, per season.

I think the problem with strikers is that it often takes these players several years to “grow into” these positions . We’ve seen that several times in the past - Reuben Reid, Michael evans, Darren rowbotham ( let’s not forget to mention his brother Jason, a very good full back). In his “ promotion diary” Dave smith talked about an experiment - playing Darren ( then seen as a winger) up front, but that it didn’t work- as the position “scared him to death”. Darren played around 50 games for Argyle ( mostly on the wing). He transferred to Exeter and played around 250 games- as a striker, scoring around 1 goal in 2 appearances ( in addition to playing for a host of other clubs including Birmingham City).

Young strikers are expected to “ produce” at 19 - and many of them are not ready to do so. It takes patience from their club and probably several loan spells. I agree with Ian Holloway who said with young players, they need to have played 100 senior games ( in any senior league) before you know what you’ve got. Yet Argyle are making a judgement on Lolos after only a handful of senior games....

I think with strikers many suffer with what I’ll call “ large jumper syndrome” , the position may initially look silly on them ( like a large jumper ) as it did initially with Darren rowbotham and Isaac vassell) - but after developing physically, emotionally, psychologically a few years later it’ll fit them to a treat and appear to be tailored for them.

Having seen many players make their debuts over the years, it’s clear to me that Lolos has the “x” factor and will make it in the pro- game. It’s a shame Argyle weren’t prepared to wait for him, via loan spells. He needs to complete the progression that’s been made by many strikers- no 7, no 10 ( Michael evans, Reuben Reid) and into his natural position, which I still maintain is a number 9 .

I still maintain that the day will come for us all at Home park to look across the park at Klaidi, wearing a number 9 shirt of ( as yet unknown colour), and repeat Jim Bowen’s well known cath phrase, of yesteryear “ this is what you could have won”.
 
Mar 15, 2007
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Plymouth
Mark Pedlar":14pt5xea said:
The reason that Argyle have struggled to bring talent through is that the best local youngsters are taken into the academies of Premiership clubs. Those that are left over are just that, leftovers. No matter how much polishing you do, you are limited by the individuals natural abilities.

Parents will always be looking to get their charges into the highest structure they can. Unless the club can show that there is a route into the higher echelons through Argyle this will always be the case. If we were to sell a Cooper or a Jephcott to a "big" club then the situation may change.

It starts with a manager prepared to give youth a chance but even then we need to be sure that the individual youths are worthy of a chance, and to a great extent that is in their hands.

The other similar issue is our location. When players get released from PL academies at 14/15 etc they often get snapped up by academies at the next tier down. We just don’t have that option. What 15 year old is going to get released by Arsenal and then relocate to Plymouth to play Academy football? Just doesn’t happen.
 
May 8, 2011
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Mark Pedlar":1q07eucb said:
The reason that Argyle have struggled to bring talent through is that the best local youngsters are taken into the academies of Premiership clubs. Those that are left over are just that, leftovers. No matter how much polishing you do, you are limited by the individuals natural abilities.

Parents will always be looking to get their charges into the highest structure they can. Unless the club can show that there is a route into the higher echelons through Argyle this will always be the case. If we were to sell a Cooper or a Jephcott to a "big" club then the situation may change.

It starts with a manager prepared to give youth a chance but even then we need to be sure that the individual youths are worthy of a chance, and to a great extent that is in their hands.

The reason it has been a decade since the Academy has regularly produced first team players is Administration. Prior to that we had began to produce quite a few but administration meant we lost a generation of potential first team players either through fire sales to raise cash or from the fall out from lack of resources following administration.
It is probably no coincidence that we are seeing the first breakthrough players now who were probably 10 or 11 at the time of administration and would be on the first runs of the Academy process so have benefited from the steady increase in resources and focus on the Academy in the years since administration.
 
Dec 30, 2020
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Mark Pedlar":1da16qla said:
The reason that Argyle have struggled to bring talent through is that the best local youngsters are taken into the academies of Premiership clubs. Those that are left over are just that, leftovers. No matter how much polishing you do, you are limited by the individuals natural abilities.

Parents will always be looking to get their charges into the highest structure they can. Unless the club can show that there is a route into the higher echelons through Argyle this will always be the case. If we were to sell a Cooper or a Jephcott to a "big" club then the situation may change.

It starts with a manager prepared to give youth a chance but even then we need to be sure that the individual youths are worthy of a chance, and to a great extent that is in their hands.

There are currently at least a dozen players from Devon and Cornwall playing in the top two divisions of English football. A couple who were nicked by Premier League clubs early on, but the majority either came through at Exeter, or worked their way up via the lower and regional leagues after Argyle had missed/released them.

There's quite a lot of risk involved with sending a 16 year old kid to an unfamiliar part of the country, away from the stabilising influence of their family. If Argyle look like a well-run, professional, upwardly-mobile outfit with a respectable record of youth development, there's every chance that prospective players and their parents would choose to sign with us even in the face of competition from richer clubs.