Maybe, it was not that difficult Schumacher | Page 4 | PASOTI
  • This site is sponsored by Lang & Potter.

Maybe, it was not that difficult Schumacher

Jon with no H

Auction Winner 👨‍⚖️
Apr 6, 2023
1,242
1,543
Bolton
Yep, I reckon Gibbo or Galloway are lined up already and Hardie wouldn't come as a surprise either. He will definitely be given more time with Stoke, he has achieved Championship safety which was the immediate goal.
I'm not sure about how much more time, certainly nothing is definite there - he is the seventh person (fourth permanent manager) to take charge of a Stoke City game between the time he joined Argyle as assistant (June 2019) and now.
 
Jul 12, 2016
8,454
5,811
He may have thought 'I've performed a minor miracle in getting to this position, now give me a bit of backing to push the club forward'.

When he didn't get that, he was looking for other jobs. But would have been nice of him to tell Simon rather than going behind his back, because it was clear his departure was a total shock to SH.
He knew full well what budget restraints he would be facing and at the risk of repeating myself , at the supporters club meeting in St Blazey he appeared to have accepted that position.How wrong were we to believe anything he said that night!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Janner and Biggs
Jul 12, 2016
8,454
5,811
Two main themes here, Schumacher and Azaz.

Schumacher left us for more money, at a bigger club with more upward potential. Career and financial ambition. If Stoke had not been "battling relegation" the opening would not have arisen. It was a calculated risk. Stoke won't finish as low next season.

On the OP, if SS had carried on in the same vein we might have finished on 53 points. Unlikely, as our harder games were yet to come. Safe yes, but not exactly sound.

Azaz was good, at times very good, but he wasn't consistently good. He was well off the boil after last Christmas, in League One. I'd love to get him back but he is a bit of an obsession on these boards. Nobody knew him before he came; there will be others like him out there.
But we have to find them at a price we can afford. There is no doubt that Azaz was the main catalyst for Whittaker’s excellent form. To replace him is easier said than done.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pilgrim Returned
Jan 6, 2004
6,816
7,289
But we have to find them at a price we can afford. There is no doubt that Azaz was the main catalyst for Whittaker’s excellent form. To replace him is easier said than done.
This is the narrative but it does not entirely fit the facts, Whittaker's top form continued after Azaz left. Indeed I would argue that while he could not keep scoring worldies as he did in his hot streak, his form only really dropped off in the last month or so of the season before that he may have been less prolific but was still creating problems.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CarolinaGreen

CarolinaGreen

🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Jun 10, 2006
1,852
1,715
Raleigh, North Carolina
This is the narrative but it does not entirely fit the facts, Whittaker's top form continued after Azaz left. Indeed I would argue that while he could not keep scoring worldies as he did in his hot streak, his form only really dropped off in the last month or so of the season before that he may have been less prolific but was still creating problems.
Agreed. Not to repeat myself a hundred times, but Whittaker won player of the month in the Championship for Jan, after Azaz left.
 

Mark Smith

✅ Evergreen
✨Pasoti Donor✨
🌟Sparksy Mural🌟
Sep 15, 2003
1,491
727
Luxembourg and Horsham
But we have to find them at a price we can afford. There is no doubt that Azaz was the main catalyst for Whittaker’s excellent form. To replace him is easier said than done.
Of course, easier said than done. Azaz was a "hidden gem", whom we unearthed either through luck or skilled research.

But he isn't a hidden gem now, which is why I was questioning the slight obsession. Small point but I'd prefer to hear "an Azaz" or "another Azaz".
 

vibratingspider

Joined 1996
Jam First
Oct 1, 2006
1,862
874
The mistake (with hindsight) that ultimately ruined our season probably happened last summer when we did not buy Azaz for around £1m when we had the chance. I think his departure has been a major catalyst for everything that has gone wrong.
This is one signing that I really wish we'd just made. Yes, it's easy to spend other people's money but £1m to stay in the Championship and benefit from ~£6m in TV money next season is a fair return on investment, though obviously not guaranteed. I was interested to see the post inferring that SH and AP didn't really consider relegation a possibility until recently, that's a concern if true.
 
Jan 17, 2005
30
38
Surrey
Of course, easier said than done. Azaz was a "hidden gem", whom we unearthed either through luck or skilled research.

But he isn't a hidden gem now, which is why I was questioning the slight obsession. Small point but I'd prefer to hear "an Azaz" or "another Azaz".
He was League Two Young Player of the Season when he was on loan with Newport, as well as being in the League Two Team of the Season. It shouldn’t have taken much research to see his quality, but it does suggest we did well to get him at the time. Presumably there was plenty of competition from other teams in league one.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mark Smith

Jon with no H

Auction Winner 👨‍⚖️
Apr 6, 2023
1,242
1,543
Bolton
This is one signing that I really wish we'd just made. Yes, it's easy to spend other people's money but £1m to stay in the Championship and benefit from ~£6m in TV money next season is a fair return on investment, though obviously not guaranteed. I was interested to see the post inferring that SH and AP didn't really consider relegation a possibility until recently, that's a concern if true.
There's no way they didn't see it as a possibility, that in itself is an impossibility!

Likelihood is a different thing, that's a scale that has moved game by game. You wouldn't be the CEO of a business like this or have earned enough money to spend £11m on something that will likely not yield its true benefits until you aren't the chairman anymore if you couldn't see something like Argyle being relegated is at least possible.
 

Dazzy3000

✅ Evergreen
Dec 3, 2008
1,108
365
Location wasn't a factor - his family were settled in Plymouth and Schumacher's decision to uproot them went down like a lead balloon in his house.

I posted some quotes in another thread taken from an interview he gave a few weeks before he left for Stoke, in which he said in great detail about how desperate he was to have a top 10 budget in this league and push for the Prem. Yes, he actually used the word 'desperate'. He also spoke about our facilities and how far behind the competition they were.

His salary would have been a 'nice to have', and being closer to Merseyside the same, but the reasons he went were budget and facilities.
His salary a ‘nice to have’ lol pull the other one.
 
Jul 12, 2016
8,454
5,811
Of course, easier said than done. Azaz was a "hidden gem", whom we unearthed either through luck or skilled research.

But he isn't a hidden gem now, which is why I was questioning the slight obsession. Small point but I'd prefer to hear "an Azaz" or "another Azaz".
Sometimes players have a particular understanding or chemistry with their team mates.e.g. Mariner and Rafferty . Whittaker and Azaz seemed to be on the same wavelength so when Azaz left the club it not only left a big void in midfield which we failed to fill but Whittaker suddenly found out there were less service to him.Not sure what you mean by your last sentence?
 

Dazzy3000

✅ Evergreen
Dec 3, 2008
1,108
365
So if Argyle had offered to match what Stoke did you think he would have stayed?

Give your head a wobble.
Well we’ll never know will we. But if his family were as settled as you say they were, it would have certainly given him a decision.

Either way, I think the salary increase would have had a lot more bearing on his decision than simply a ‘nice to have’.
 

Jon with no H

Auction Winner 👨‍⚖️
Apr 6, 2023
1,242
1,543
Bolton
Sometimes players have a particular understanding or chemistry with their team mates.e.g. Mariner and Rafferty . Whittaker and Azaz seemed to be on the same wavelength so when Azaz left the club it not only left a big void in midfield which we failed to fill but Whittaker suddenly found out there were less service to him.Not sure what you mean by your last sentence?
This may come as a shock Oldage, but I agree with you entirely here! The conversation is about a specific person and it's unlikely one of his relatives will be joining to take his place.
 
  • Like
Reactions: oldage
Oct 10, 2018
1,181
1,056
The only person who truely knows why SS left is SS (and his wife!).

Anything we add is speculation. And so, for my 2pence worth... i think it has more to do with the finacial clout that Stoke could offer in order for him to progress his career in an area closer to his family home.

Do I begrudge him that? No, its his career and loyalty is a myth in football, created by fans who do not depend on it for a living.

Am i still gutted he left? Absolutely!

Do i believe we would have survived more comfortably had he stayed? 100%.

Maybe Finn and Cundle wouldve left anyway... but i wouldve trusted SS to kept a steady ship and invested in better than Devine and Gyabi.
Spot on my sentiments exactly