Need for the city’s infrastucture to be improved, holding Argyle back.

[Drake]

Completely agree with regards to high quality hotels, I find it amazing that a city of the size of Plymouth can have so few options.

It would be wonderful to have these better quality hotels, but it’s not as if they are lined up waiting to build or fill proposed developments.
These larger chains often get mentioned as being ‘interested’ but nothing materialises as they do not see the economic benefits of opening in the city currently (or they aren’t willing to commit to a proposed development prior to its construction often leading to such schemes collapsing as financiers subsequently get cold feet).

 

[Drake]

We’ve had this type of conversation on Opinions back in the day. I’ve always been convinced that Plymouth fails to exploit its many benefits. It - and the surrounding area - has scenery, history, culture and the potential to be a gateway to and from the UK far beyond what it currently does. What it lacks in abundance though is vision and ambition.

Some of this is being addressed in the Freeport strategy but it could be even bigger, so my musings:

Vision - establish a team across all sectors to create a vision for the city and surrounding community (. Politicians, council leaders, land owners, public services and agencies (inc. Defence sector given its incumbency), SMEs, big business, technology, citizens etc.

Strategy - a gamble but one which could be made. Employ forward thinking consultancies to work with the visionaries to develop the strategy and business case including returns on investment. I doubt very much that Plymouth itself has the capability required - Management Consultants, Business Architects, Analysts …. but can exploit the capabilities of business and technology partners.

Finance - Inward investment (public/private), co-ordinated use of politicians and business leaders for lobbying (as appropriate). Seed-funding opportunities and expertise in exploiting Government issued Calls for proof of concept.

Transport links - should not be considered in isolation and frankly will never happen until the business case is demonstrated. Public/private partnerships likely needed. Issues with internal transport links are obvious (personally, other than driving 12-13 hours I have to fly Inverness to Bristol and then hire a car which is inflexible and costly), but I would be looking beyond this and positioning Plymouth as a gateway to and from Europe and the world, by sea and air. Freeport again… and accommodation (including hotels).

Smart City - having worked on several projects and managed experts in this field I know this can be a real door opener for public/private partnerships and investment. Air quality, Transport, Waste management and digital infrastructure in general exploiting some of the dark fibre. This would support public service integration as well as improved digital benefits for business in general including SMEs. This is being done in other cities so we are not reinventing the wheel here.

Marketing - not to be under-estimated. Sell the vision, sell the benefits and and continue to sell it post implementation for adoption. Hugely important.

These are thoughts off the top of my head and only scratch the surface, but I genuinely believe Plymouth’s location and overall attraction gives it real differentiation. Given, in my work, I used to have conversations with cities of similar proportions on the North and East coast, how can Plymouth not be a more attractive bet?

So Plymouth, how ambitious are you?

Some excellent points and suggestions. Joined up cooperative thinking is key however it always comes down to money. Where does the finance for these schemes come from when local government is skint and central government couldn’t give a poo about a city miles from London?

 

[Vargyle]

I have been reading this thread with interest as it is close to a discussion my son and I had recently. He asked me what would I do to regenerate the centre of Plymouth as I was telling him how vibrant it used to be. My solution was dramatic and of course costly but I think it would be an amazing solution for the city. I would flatten most of the bottom half of the old retail centre of Plymouth and and build a new multi purpose stadium for Argyle and whatever else right in the centre along with hotels etc. I would rebuild the pannier market and of course Ivor Dewdneys as well. I am sure most of you will think I am mad but I think it would totally regenerate. The wonderful city of Plymouth.

 

[Frank Butcher]

Some excellent points and suggestions. Joined up cooperative thinking is key however it always comes down to money. Where does the finance for these schemes come from when local government is skint and central government couldn’t give a poo about a city miles from London?

You have to make them care and now is the time to be honest. There’s a real desire to make Freeport a good news story (though time may be limited 😛) - with a bit of thought you could architect a vision to make it bigger than that. Finance is public/private in these schemes. Trade, commerce, tourism - that’s the way to get better transport links.

 

[Richard Allan]

We’ve had this type of conversation on Opinions back in the day. I’ve always been convinced that Plymouth fails to exploit its many benefits. It - and the surrounding area - has scenery, history, culture and the potential to be a gateway to and from the UK far beyond what it currently does. What it lacks in abundance though is vision and ambition.

Some of this is being addressed in the Freeport strategy but it could be even bigger, so my musings:

Vision - establish a team across all sectors to create a vision for the city and surrounding community (. Politicians, council leaders, land owners, public services and agencies (inc. Defence sector given its incumbency), SMEs, big business, technology, citizens etc.

Strategy - a gamble but one which could be made. Employ forward thinking consultancies to work with the visionaries to develop the strategy and business case including returns on investment. I doubt very much that Plymouth itself has the capability required - Management Consultants, Business Architects, Analysts …. but can exploit the capabilities of business and technology partners.

Finance - Inward investment (public/private), co-ordinated use of politicians and business leaders for lobbying (as appropriate). Seed-funding opportunities and expertise in exploiting Government issued Calls for proof of concept.

Transport links - should not be considered in isolation and frankly will never happen until the business case is demonstrated. Public/private partnerships likely needed. Issues with internal transport links are obvious (personally, other than driving 12-13 hours I have to fly Inverness to Bristol and then hire a car which is inflexible and costly), but I would be looking beyond this and positioning Plymouth as a gateway to and from Europe and the world, by sea and air. Freeport again… and accommodation (including hotels).

Smart City - having worked on several projects and managed experts in this field I know this can be a real door opener for public/private partnerships and investment. Air quality, Transport, Waste management and digital infrastructure in general exploiting some of the dark fibre. This would support public service integration as well as improved digital benefits for business in general including SMEs. This is being done in other cities so we are not reinventing the wheel here.

Marketing - not to be under-estimated. Sell the vision, sell the benefits and and continue to sell it post implementation for adoption. Hugely important.

These are thoughts off the top of my head and only scratch the surface, but I genuinely believe Plymouth’s location and overall attraction gives it real differentiation. Given, in my work, I used to have conversations with cities of similar proportions on the North and East coast, how can Plymouth not be a more attractive bet?

So Plymouth, how ambitious are you?

Great post, sounds like you could do some time with the ED team at PCC. Freeport is a massive bonus to our city, of which the port is already engaged in to maximise trade and investment 👍

 

[memory man]

Doing my best on the cruise ships part! 5 this month

Southampton had 5 over the weekend. Likely to hit an average of at least 30 a week through to October. All berthed alongside and each facilitating 100s of jobs in security, passenger reception, car parking and huge numbers of taxis. And Plymouth certainly out does Southampton as a backdrop.

 

[Richard Allan]

We’ve had this type of conversation on Opinions back in the day. I’ve always been convinced that Plymouth fails to exploit its many benefits. It - and the surrounding area - has scenery, history, culture and the potential to be a gateway to and from the UK far beyond what it currently does. What it lacks in abundance though is vision and ambition.

Some of this is being addressed in the Freeport strategy but it could be even bigger, so my musings:

Vision - establish a team across all sectors to create a vision for the city and surrounding community (. Politicians, council leaders, land owners, public services and agencies (inc. Defence sector given its incumbency), SMEs, big business, technology, citizens etc.

Strategy - a gamble but one which could be made. Employ forward thinking consultancies to work with the visionaries to develop the strategy and business case including returns on investment. I doubt very much that Plymouth itself has the capability required - Management Consultants, Business Architects, Analysts …. but can exploit the capabilities of business and technology partners.

Finance - Inward investment (public/private), co-ordinated use of politicians and business leaders for lobbying (as appropriate). Seed-funding opportunities and expertise in exploiting Government issued Calls for proof of concept.

Transport links - should not be considered in isolation and frankly will never happen until the business case is demonstrated. Public/private partnerships likely needed. Issues with internal transport links are obvious (personally, other than driving 12-13 hours I have to fly Inverness to Bristol and then hire a car which is inflexible and costly), but I would be looking beyond this and positioning Plymouth as a gateway to and from Europe and the world, by sea and air. Freeport again… and accommodation (including hotels).

Smart City - having worked on several projects and managed experts in this field I know this can be a real door opener for public/private partnerships and investment. Air quality, Transport, Waste management and digital infrastructure in general exploiting some of the dark fibre. This would support public service integration as well as improved digital benefits for business in general including SMEs. This is being done in other cities so we are not reinventing the wheel here.

Marketing - not to be under-estimated. Sell the vision, sell the benefits and and continue to sell it post implementation for adoption. Hugely important.

These are thoughts off the top of my head and only scratch the surface, but I genuinely believe Plymouth’s location and overall attraction gives it real differentiation. Given, in my work, I used to have conversations with cities of similar proportions on the North and East coast, how can Plymouth not be a more attractive bet?

So Plymouth, how ambitious are you?

Great post, sounds like you could do some time with the ED team at PCC. Freeport is a massive bonus to our city, of which the port is already engaged in to maximise trade and investment 👍

Southampton had 5 over the weekend. Likely to hit an average of at least 30 a week through to October. All berthed alongside and each facilitating 100s of jobs in security, passenger reception, car parking and huge numbers of taxis. And Plymouth certainly out does Southampton as a backdrop.

no comparison unfortunately, ships don’t always want to come alongside in Plymouth, due to other offerings to the guests on day visits. Embarkations of course A/S.

From 0 - 16 in a few years, slow but steady progress.

 

[HC Green]

Great post, sounds like you could do some time with the ED team at PCC. Freeport is a massive bonus to our city, of which the port is already engaged in to maximise trade and investment 👍

After finance, the biggest obstacle to most suggested developments is land and the topography of Plymouth. The City has more of less built up to its boundaries.
Unless the MOD releases vast tracks of the Dockyard there is little or no scope to develop the waterfront.
The City is short of underused flat land with the airport site being the only large area left.
The term Freeport is a bit of a misnomer as most of the development proposed will take place at Langage and Sherford both outside the City in the South Hams.

 

[Green Flash]

Freeports are part of the Brexiteer vision to turn Britain into a low regulation low tax minimal public services off shore jurisdiction . They are unlikely to survive the next Labour government. The city should not be building plans around that.

 

[Guiri Green]

Southampton had 5 over the weekend. Likely to hit an average of at least 30 a week through to October. All berthed alongside and each facilitating 100s of jobs in security, passenger reception, car parking and huge numbers of taxis. And Plymouth certainly out does Southampton as a backdrop.

Yes, but Southampton isn't a cruise ship destination in the way Plymouth is marketed. Southampton is the terminal you travel to, to start your seaborne adventure.

Interestingly, some cruise lines offer free parking or free coach travel to the terminal, guess which area / major city doesn't get the coach service?

 

[Frank Butcher]

Freeports are part of the Brexiteer vision to turn Britain into a low regulation low tax minimal public services off shore jurisdiction . They are unlikely to survive the next Labour government. The city should not be building plans around that.

Setting aside the political part of your post, what does the city wait for then? Shall we just send a message over to the Freeport team to stop bothering now because it’s a waste of time.

No offence intended, but this is an indicator of the problem that Plymouth (and other cities) have suffered for decades - basic inertia and/or finding reasons not to do something resulting in tokenistic facelifts of pavements and building facades. Job done.

The Freeport is at least a launchpad and any strategist worth their salt would bake in the likely change of government as part of a risk assessment. At some point someone has to thing big, think beyond, or the slow decline will just continue. For me it’s a microcosm of what we see at a UK level as well - Truss was a fool for doing what she did at the time she did, but principally she wasn’t far off. At some point someone needs to go for growth because we’re stagnating.

I now live 730 miles away so shouldn’t perhaps care so much, but my home city has so much potential it just needs people with the power to grasp the nettle.

 

[Quintrell Green]

I know Burnley are likely to be relegated yet again this season but nevertheless the poverty that the town has not prevented the club from a yo-yo existence between the Premiership and The Championship over decades. Posters might moan about apparent visual defects within the city of Plymouth but it was only within the last 10 years you could buy a whole row of back to back houses in Burnley for £30K, when I doubt if you could actually buy one in [say] Stonehouse. The point I am making that there is far more to the creation of a successful professional football club than 'glitter' on the periphery. As for the number of cruise ships calling in at Southampton, it of course wins because if its proximity to London, otherwise they would block the Thames.

 

[mervyn]

Frank is spot on, and I think timing is everything. I read two years ago, so things may have changed, that Devon had become the most moved into county in Britain, with the majority moving into south Devon. Friends and family envy us living in Devon, and post-pandemic with more home working, the attraction is obvious.

If I were a political mayor for Plymouth I would follow the Exeter model. The city centre around Southernhay and Princesshay is now a mix of retail, office and residential, so the city has a heart. The nearby airport and general road access has persuaded organisations like the Met. Office to move there, bringing two thousand well paid jobs. A nearby new town has been created adjacent to the airport, with affordable homes, and good local commuting facilities.

There is absolutely no reason imo why Plymouth can’t do the same, in what is arguably a more attractive coastal location. OK, it’s a huge task, but the simple step of cleaning up the city’s scruffy parts shown in the video would be a good first step.

 

[jimbogreen]

Great post, sounds like you could do some time with the ED team at PCC. Freeport is a massive bonus to our city, of which the port is already engaged in to maximise trade and investment 👍

no comparison unfortunately, ships generally doesn’t want to come alongside in Plymouth.

From 0 - 16 in a few years, slow but steady progress.

Genuine question - why don't ships want to come alongside here? As a total layman, I would have thought it is much easier for their passengers to disembark. I always thought trying to get a cruise line to start trips here would do wonders for the economy with guests staying pre/post.

 

[swanhunter]

Plymouth needs to leverage the advantages it has

* amazing physical geography - rolling green hills and a coast that's been blessed
* cheap housing - you can earn 40K a year in Plymouth and get a mortgage on a house
* history - this place has a story
* the university - they create innovation so we need to capture that. look at the incredible economy that has been built around Cambridge serving life sciences. Not suggest the UoP is in that league but still

And in some competitively priced commercial property - there are plenty of brownfield buildings empty and promote the place. It should be a haven for start ups and small businesses