It probably wouldn’t as most people who fly have got used to going to Exeter or Bristol which have “proper” planes that fly to places people actually want to go to. They need to sell it to someone like EasyJet.
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Plymouth airport
- Thread starter Argyleloyal
- Start date
You live in Exeter area, Quinny? Careful, you are showing your leanings towards the reds!
I was too young to remember Plymouth Airport when it was open. Did people actually use it? Anybody got any figures to justify re-opening it?
I did live in Plymouth for the first 30-odd years in my life, and pop down several times a month to see my mum in Whitleigh
The point is, there'll never be enough interest to have a quarter million foot-fall through an airport in Plymouth to make it commercially viable. I know people on here talk about them making use of it when they go on their holidays to get to one of the international airports, but that would only be once a year, and as soon as you hit the low season the airport would be dead as much as I remember it to be when I used to cycle up there to watch the aircraft when I was a teenager. And even if you could get an airline to take on that run you couldn't guarantee they'd get a slot at Heathrow/Gatwick/Stanstead ... and even if they did they'd probably be flying near-empty planes during the winter just to keep their slot. And the only planes that could use it would be no bigger than 50-seater turboprops.
Then there's the minor point that they nearly obliterated one of the runways for building developments (and there's a reason why many airports have two runways crossing each other), almost no hangar space anymore etc etc.
I simply can't see how an airport can be viable for Plymouth. Or, to put it another way, I can't see what has changed in the 10-odd years since it was closed which makes re-opening it an attractive proposition which will suddenly make a sizeable percentage of locals suddenly want to use it several times a year.
Excellent reply, Quinny. I take it all back.I did live in Plymouth for the first 30-odd years in my life, and pop down several times a month to see my mum in Whitleigh
The point is, there'll never be enough interest to have a quarter million foot-fall through an airport in Plymouth to make it commercially viable. I know people on here talk about them making use of it when they go on their holidays to get to one of the international airports, but that would only be once a year, and as soon as you hit the low season the airport would be dead as much as I remember it to be when I used to cycle up there to watch the aircraft when I was a teenager. And even if you could get an airline to take on that run you couldn't guarantee they'd get a slot at Heathrow/Gatwick/Stanstead ... and even if they did they'd probably be flying near-empty planes during the winter just to keep their slot. And the only planes that could use it would be no bigger than 50-seater turboprops.
Then there's the minor point that they nearly obliterated one of the runways for building developments (and there's a reason why many airports have two runways crossing each other), almost no hangar space anymore etc etc.
I simply can't see how an airport can be viable for Plymouth. Or, to put it another way, I can't see what has changed in the 10-odd years since it was closed which makes re-opening it an attractive proposition which will suddenly make a sizeable percentage of locals suddenly want to use it several times a year.
And Newquay as well. You can fly to Dublin, Germany and Spain from there, as well as to most of the big UK airports.
Why think of the airport in today's terms. It won't be long before vertical lift off transport will be common and certainly the drone take off and landing is about to go mainstream. There is talk now of a drone corridor between Oxford, Essex and Cambridge. Drones are used now to deliver produce to Scottish islands, there is talk of using drones to deliver to the Scilly Isles. Don't you think that the runway will be perfect for drones.I did live in Plymouth for the first 30-odd years in my life, and pop down several times a month to see my mum in Whitleigh
The point is, there'll never be enough interest to have a quarter million foot-fall through an airport in Plymouth to make it commercially viable. I know people on here talk about them making use of it when they go on their holidays to get to one of the international airports, but that would only be once a year, and as soon as you hit the low season the airport would be dead as much as I remember it to be when I used to cycle up there to watch the aircraft when I was a teenager. And even if you could get an airline to take on that run you couldn't guarantee they'd get a slot at Heathrow/Gatwick/Stanstead ... and even if they did they'd probably be flying near-empty planes during the winter just to keep their slot. And the only planes that could use it would be no bigger than 50-seater turboprops.
Then there's the minor point that they nearly obliterated one of the runways for building developments (and there's a reason why many airports have two runways crossing each other), almost no hangar space anymore etc etc.
I simply can't see how an airport can be viable for Plymouth. Or, to put it another way, I can't see what has changed in the 10-odd years since it was closed which makes re-opening it an attractive proposition which will suddenly make a sizeable percentage of locals suddenly want to use it several times a year.
One reason is the need for a hire car or other form of transport for your onward journey from other airports. That is certainly the case for me, currently flying in to Bristol. But equally, to your point, it has to be financially viable.
I think the big missing point is Plymouth as a destination - with the extremely scientific mapping of my own eyes only 😎 it is striking how many more European visitors there are up here in Scotland, and yet the city is literally a stone’s throw away.
I’ve said this many times on here, the city needs a marketing department, it needs vision and execution of a plan. With so many treasures in and on the doorstep, it could be advertised as the gateway to the UK for mainland Europe rather than being bypassed for the magnet of London and everywhere North of there. Creative packages could allow for the traveller to explore the area before moving on to other parts of the country - touring being very big business these days. That in itself would also attract trade and investment.
Drones don't need runways at all, and I'm not sure if you're talking about just cargo or also about viable passenger-carrying "drones" being just around the corner; but I think that the latter are a very long way off yet. Sure, small taxi sizes may pop up in major cities for a while before they go out of business through lack of demand for what will be ruinously expensive short hops - even assuming they could get clearance for using the airspace directly above heavily populated city centres in the first place, which I seriously doubt - but not full-on commercial-sized beasts for significant distances.
For one thing, assuming they'll be electrically powered, there are major problems with current battery technology being far too heavy at large scales, and far too low in energy density compared with fossil fuels. What's more, a battery-powered aircraft lands with exactly the same weight it took off with - a huge disadvantage in itself in terms of energy consumption, and also a significant problem in landing the thing. (Jets often dump fuel when they still have "too much" on board prior to landing; you can't just chuck out a few dozen tons of huge batteries!)
That drone corridor you mention is just for the rinky-dinky variety. Nothing wrong with that, and I'm sure that small cargo-carrying services will increase dramatically in the coming years - but not passenger transport. Not until, at the very least, there's been a quantum leap in battery technology. And then there's the small matter of the U in UAV...
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I think you're going off-piste here, talking about drones. Sure, that's an area which will grow over the coming years, but you won't need an ex-airport as the base for that ... or you can, but you'd only need a small percentage of the existing site leaving the remainder to be redeveloped.
The basis of this thread was about Plymouth Airport to be used by passengers - 'FlyPlymouth' are talking about reopening the airport and running about 120-140 scheduled flights a week, and I don't think that's economically viable. Like I said a few posts ago, if the airport closed because airlines felt that Plymouth wasn't viable due to the number of people using their service, what's changed in the last 10 years that has Janners clammering for the airport to re-open?
Yes I agree with you but I guess I am clutching at straws because we always look at todays issue and short term thinking. We never seem to future proof or provide opportunities for future generations. We don't know what the future will bring in say 50 years (not that long as I well remember 50 years ago), or 100 years or longer. Once the airport land goes, it goes forever and as there are no flat areas of land around Plymouth, there will never be any opportunity for air travel again unless we take over the Yelverton runway site and create an airport there ... (previous poster alluded to this) but then the National Park Authority will go hell for leather to prevent any development.
Plymouth is a big city (I am no longer allowed to call it biggest city south of London as I will be attacked by all the Pedants) but a big city which is 40 miles from a motorway, with a single train line which is regularly closed and no air transport links. We are at the arse end of England and I fear that many folk in Plymouth and on this site think that that is our rightful place to be. Suppose somewhere has to be the Arse of England ...
Oh, I agree with you 100% about the lack of future-proofing and focussing on short-term thinking and, yes, over the coming decades there will be electric aircraft which would address issues regarding noise and air pollution, but long-term thinking and keeping a giant bit of real-estate free just in case there's suddenly a call for the airport to reopen in 20 years time is a luxury which PCC can hardly afford to have.
The bit I find interesting - not that I've researched this very deeply, so I'll probably be proved wrong in about 5 minutes
- is that I can't find any mention of taking advantage of using the airport now that Plymouth has been awarded the free-port status by the Government. Plenty of talk about a jobs boom and £100 million investment coming our way (although I'll believe that only when it happens), and talks about more investment for Devonport, Langage Energy Zone and the proposed Sherford Business Park, but nowt about how an airport could be key part of Plymouth being a free-port. Not by FlyPlymouth, not by PCC, not by the Government or any of the businesses. It simply isn't part of their strategic thinking, short-term or long-term.
I know this is well off piste but don’t expect any government help. Thanks to Nick, Devon and Cornwall is largely a Tory area. Levelling up only applies up North despite the lack of travel links, hospitals and many other things in the South West
One problem was the poor marketing of the airport and area as mentioned earlier. The number of times I've heard "I didn't know Plymouth had an airport" in the past was indicative of that to me, having said that, there's a few smaller airports around that I didn't know existed, I didn't know Southend had one until they expressed an interest in Plymouth. I remember landing at Southampton once as part of journey back to Exeter and managed a flying visit to Filton once on a MoD / Babcock Charter.
