Those were the days...

[X Isle]

Happy days, even Shilton knew where to look, how many were signed from the reserve teams of premiership clubs :wink:.

True.But then,where were Gilbert,Capaldi,Stonebridge and Norris signed from,albeit on a permanent,rather than loan basis? I'm sure you'll agree those players played an important part in actually winning somethng in 2003/4,rather than than being glorious failures,then inglorious failures in the following season,a la the Shilton team.I realise you may be posting in a somewhat tongue in cheek style judging by the wink,but just to finish off,i would think that Shilts had considerably more money with which to assemble that team than has been allocated to Mr Reid,maybe its a case of shopping where the budget dictates.

But surely what that team demonstrates is that you don't need to go rummaging through Premier League reserves to find decent players.

Steve Castle came to us from Leyton Orient, Paul Dalton from Hartlepool, Gary Poole from Barnet, Dwight Marshall from Grays Athletic, I forget where Kevin Nugent came from, but i'm sure it was no-one special! (was it Leyton Orient as well??)

All lower league players who when put together became a TEAM. In my 25 years of following Argyle, no team sticks in my memory like that one! I just about remember the Dave Smith team, I was at the 4-0 thrashing of Bristol City , but the Shilton team was like watching Arsenal of today. Pure footballing magic and I believe that the "nearly" season saw us as the leagues top goalscorers with 88 goals. I could be wrong......hang on, where's GOS

Simple question.Do you think that Reid could afford to pay for players like Nugent,Dalton,Marshall etc under the present financila climate?

Maybe not Castle/Nugent/Dalton but Alan Nicholls was a free from Cheltenham/Chelmsford(?), Marshall cost just £35k, Poole was a free too. It can be done but you need an intimate knowledge of lower league football and our present set-up has an intimate knowledge of the EPL and US college soccer. Despite being down in the depths now, we are divorced from grassroots football.

 

[Greenskin]

Happy days, even Shilton knew where to look, how many were signed from the reserve teams of premiership clubs :wink:.

True.But then,where were Gilbert,Capaldi,Stonebridge and Norris signed from,albeit on a permanent,rather than loan basis? I'm sure you'll agree those players played an important part in actually winning somethng in 2003/4,rather than than being glorious failures,then inglorious failures in the following season,a la the Shilton team.I realise you may be posting in a somewhat tongue in cheek style judging by the wink,but just to finish off,i would think that Shilts had considerably more money with which to assemble that team than has been allocated to Mr Reid,maybe its a case of shopping where the budget dictates.

But surely what that team demonstrates is that you don't need to go rummaging through Premier League reserves to find decent players.

Steve Castle came to us from Leyton Orient, Paul Dalton from Hartlepool, Gary Poole from Barnet, Dwight Marshall from Grays Athletic, I forget where Kevin Nugent came from, but i'm sure it was no-one special! (was it Leyton Orient as well??)

All lower league players who when put together became a TEAM. In my 25 years of following Argyle, no team sticks in my memory like that one! I just about remember the Dave Smith team, I was at the 4-0 thrashing of Bristol City , but the Shilton team was like watching Arsenal of today. Pure footballing magic and I believe that the "nearly" season saw us as the leagues top goalscorers with 88 goals. I could be wrong......hang on, where's GOS

Nugent was Orient too Kev.
Greenskin. My beef with the current premiership loanee reliance is that they are no better than what we've got and don't have the hunger, ifthey mess up their parent clubs will just loan them elsewhere. Capaldi, Norris, Gilbert et al became OUR players and thus had to roll their sleeves up and pitch in with the squad. Your joust therefore doesn't hit my shield i'm afraid.
There is quality a plenty in the lower leagues for them that want to see it, I don't believe Peter Reid can.
Just watch the clips from that side and tell me if you feel your Dean Parretts, your Alan Judge's, Shame Lowry's, James Chesters, Cathcart's, Gray's, Lee Martin's, Lucas Jukebox, Cillian Sheridans could even have produced that sort of play, passion and desire to go with their fledgling ability. They've got all the gear but no idea. Only Scott Sinclair came here with the right attitude, he didn't play like he was on loan.
He needs to start looking at Orient again, at Barnet, Grays Athletic, Hartlepool etc. because that's where we'll find salvation, only prostitution lies the way of reliance on EPL reserves. We provide the venue and personnel for their indiscretions, they then return to their real partners having got it out of their system.

I don't disagree with you that the ideal solution is to scout players who are proven at league 1 level [and hopefully with the ability to go beyond] and build a team in that fashion but we're not in an ideal situation.Clubs like Orient,Barnet,Hartlepool,even non league clubs are not going to say "Oh,its Plymouth Argyle on the phone,lets let them have our best players on the cheap,we understand their financial position".Times have changed even since Shilts day-non league clubs are no longer a source of cheap talent,how much did Mackail Smith cost?£125,000,i believe and why shouldn't non league clubs get full value for a player.Argyle are cashed strapped and it looks as if Reid is going to have to make do with loans,despite assertions from the chairman to the contrary in pre season.Maybe Reid will in due course look to other areas [ie next summer,when players are out of contract and no transfer fees are required,bearing in mind that this year Reid only took over in late June and had to assess the squad very quickly] if able to do so,but i think a deeper understanding of the managers position is required and the fact that limited time and resources mean limited avenues of incoming talent.

 

[X Isle]

I know it's not what you intended by "limited avenues of incoming talent", you don't want me to limit him to the lower leagues. However in 180 degree reverse that's exactly what he's doing Reid is doing, limiting us to a Premiership creche and reserve team outsourcing facility.
All his signings come from the same source, all his published movements to watch games are at the very same source. I'm not saying it should be forbidden to sign an EPL player on loan or having been released by an EPL club but other options ARE available. So, when abominations like Dean Parrett get places in the side ahead of good L1 midfielders i'm afraid his lower league inexperience is painfully obvious.
We need to foster a unity in the squad, the kind of togetherness we saw against the Wendies, he won't get that from players who go back to their clubs every other week and whose ideas are very much above our present station.

 

[Greenskin]

I know it's not what you intended by "limited avenues of incoming talent", you don't want me to limit him to the lower leagues. However in 180 degree reverse that's exactly what he's doing Reid is doing, limiting us to a Premiership creche and reserve team outsourcing facility.
All his signings come from the same source, all his published movements to watch games are at the very same source. I'm not saying it should be forbidden to sign an EPL player on loan or having been released by an EPL club but other options ARE available. So, when abominations like Dean Parrett get places in the side ahead of good L1 midfielders i'm afraid his lower league inexperience is painfully obvious.
We need to foster a unity in the squad, the kind of togetherness we saw against the Wendies, he won't get that from players who go back to their clubs every other week and whose ideas are very much above our present station.

Bit harsh labelling Parrett as an abomination,isn't it? And who would be the "good league 1 midfielders" that you speak of,are they currently at the club? Anyway,bearing in mind the financial restrictions that are seemngly shackling Reid at the moment,what are the other options that you speak of,apart from a pipe dream of signing the best players from clubs of a similar status? And do you know for a fact that Reid only scouts at premier league reserve grounds? Darned if i can say that for certain.

 

[Stuart_C]

Noone, Rory Patterson, Bolasie, Bhasera, Reda Johnson, Zubar, Donnelly , Arnason, Timar, Seip, Peterlin, Molyneaux.

Half a squad of "wee nuggets" brought in from lower league or obscure sources, all of whom were a gamble to add to nine home grown players.

All of the lower league imports into Shilton's team were the star man at their clubs and of known quality. Peterborough have employed a similar recruitment policy in recent seasons of paying decent money for the stars from lower and non-league clubs.

 

[paulysalz]

Happy days, even Shilton knew where to look, how many were signed from the reserve teams of premiership clubs :wink:.

True.But then,where were Gilbert,Capaldi,Stonebridge and Norris signed from,albeit on a permanent,rather than loan basis? I'm sure you'll agree those players played an important part in actually winning somethng in 2003/4,rather than than being glorious failures,then inglorious failures in the following season,a la the Shilton team.I realise you may be posting in a somewhat tongue in cheek style judging by the wink,but just to finish off,i would think that Shilts had considerably more money with which to assemble that team than has been allocated to Mr Reid,maybe its a case of shopping where the budget dictates.

But surely what that team demonstrates is that you don't need to go rummaging through Premier League reserves to find decent players.

Steve Castle came to us from Leyton Orient, Paul Dalton from Hartlepool, Gary Poole from Barnet, Dwight Marshall from Grays Athletic, I forget where Kevin Nugent came from, but i'm sure it was no-one special! (was it Leyton Orient as well??)

All lower league players who when put together became a TEAM. In my 25 years of following Argyle, no team sticks in my memory like that one! I just about remember the Dave Smith team, I was at the 4-0 thrashing of Bristol City , but the Shilton team was like watching Arsenal of today. Pure footballing magic and I believe that the "nearly" season saw us as the leagues top goalscorers with 88 goals. I could be wrong......hang on, where's GOS

I agree with the sentiment here,but let's not be too blinkered about where these players came from. Hartlepool signed Dalton from Man U's reserves.

 

[PlymptonPilgrim]

Happy days, even Shilton knew where to look, how many were signed from the reserve teams of premiership clubs :wink:.

True.But then,where were Gilbert,Capaldi,Stonebridge and Norris signed from,albeit on a permanent,rather than loan basis? I'm sure you'll agree those players played an important part in actually winning somethng in 2003/4,rather than than being glorious failures,then inglorious failures in the following season,a la the Shilton team.I realise you may be posting in a somewhat tongue in cheek style judging by the wink,but just to finish off,i would think that Shilts had considerably more money with which to assemble that team than has been allocated to Mr Reid,maybe its a case of shopping where the budget dictates.

But surely what that team demonstrates is that you don't need to go rummaging through Premier League reserves to find decent players.

Steve Castle came to us from Leyton Orient, Paul Dalton from Hartlepool, Gary Poole from Barnet, Dwight Marshall from Grays Athletic, I forget where Kevin Nugent came from, but i'm sure it was no-one special! (was it Leyton Orient as well??)

All lower league players who when put together became a TEAM. In my 25 years of following Argyle, no team sticks in my memory like that one! I just about remember the Dave Smith team, I was at the 4-0 thrashing of Bristol City , but the Shilton team was like watching Arsenal of today. Pure footballing magic and I believe that the "nearly" season saw us as the leagues top goalscorers with 88 goals. I could be wrong......hang on, where's GOS

Simple question.Do you think that Reid could afford to pay for players like Nugent,Dalton,Marshall etc under the present financila climate?

If the club had a rich owner, then yes. For all his faults (and they were many), Big Dan did put his money up front for Shilton to go out and look for the players he wanted rather than looking around at lesser players and loanees.

I agree with JV though, my favourite Argyle team, just beating Holloways of a couple of years ago.

Sadly, it always seems to end in tears with this club.

 

[Larry David]

86 side for my money.

Gerry McElhinney what a star. Garry Nelson and Kevin Hodges. John Clayton Tommy Tynan Stevie Cooper Gordon Nisbet Crudgie Clive Goodyear John Matthews Russell Coughlin Leigh Cooper Kevin Summerfield.

John Matthews what a passer of the ball

 

[knecht]

Isn't part of the problem the way that big, big money has taken over the game? Previously young players would have been taken up by lower league clubs and developed - maybe then sold on if they were good enough. Now so many of the big clubs snaffle up all that's going and loan them out to gain experience or as a prelude to dumping them. Quality signings from the lower leagues are harder to find today.