Who do we want as our new Manager

[Jon with no H]

Isn't the longest serving manager in the Championship a certain RL at PNE?

Cut his teeth in league 2 successfully, then did well in league 1 and has held his own in the championship.

Surely thats the model we should be looking for? Not fussed if its a foreign coach who has cut his teeth already. Look at what the Wendies manager did from October onwards when he joined them on 3 points!!!

Mark Robins is the longest, but Ryan Lowe is second, at a touch over 2 years 5 months, which is quite the indictment of the sanity of the league.

 

[Biggs]

I would really like a manager/coach who has a body of evidence of creating attacking, high risk and fun teams. Which I think possibly points towards the foreign market...

 

[Argyleloyal]

Obviously don’t know how true this is

 

[South Hams James]

Thanks for the reply woodsy

It's good that were having a debate about this I think- which is what I wanted really....since it's such a big change to the way that football clubs have traditionally been run

I've listed the possible demerits of the system, along with my perceptions ( which may of course be wrong) - I'd be interested to hear what others think though, who might take a different view to me

There are some interesting issues which arise from the structure I think

Contrary views to mine, would be welcome

I note that some clubs who started to use this system ( millwall) have subsequently abandoned it

The system discounts the need for experience- so that we get into the situation in which we found ourselves in this season- 5 consecutive home defeats with a 'head coach' with no experience of management at the helm

That's not to say that this situation wouldn't have arisen if there had been an experienced manager at the helm- but my perception would be that it would be less likely . Why - hindsight and reflection.simply because an experienced manager would have been through that sort of experience before, probably, and would know how to handle it better than a novice coach ? Why ? Because experience is valuable isnt it ? Because if we are sensible we reflect on our performances ( whatever job we each happen to do) the last time we came across a similar situation including what we did right and also what we did wrong the last time- so that next time we come across a similar situation, we handle it better.

I have a few issues with the idea of a young coach. Where is there room for an experienced older head in this system ? And because of that- and this is my concern- I think it will make us weaker as a football club going forward.

I can see the potential benefits to an owner for example, in having a director of football who is hands- on.

Another issue is this - when does a director-of- football become accountable ? I note stoke changed theirs this season.Having said all that I am grateful for all the work that neil dewsnip has done this season.

Would people be happy to see another learner appointed, when there are so many good experienced managers available ?

Would be happy to hear from people who take a contrary view to me, as I think this major change in the way football teams are being structured and run, is a legitimate subject for debate amongst fans.....

I believe we shouldn't be getting hung up on the term 'head coach', i don't remember if SS had that title, but the reality is the next person in charge will have the same roles and responsibilities as SS. That will be to:

- Manage the day to day coaching, performance and on field matters of the first team, reporting into the Director of Football (DOF).
- They will have the Fitness, Performance, Physio, Match Day / Opposition Analytics team reporting into them.

The Requirement / Data team will continue as it did under SS, they will report into the DOF. All big picture football matters in terms of style of football, strategy, recruitment, etc. will be a group decision between the CEO, DOF, Head of Recruitment and Head Coach.

SS was not an experienced guy, but he had lots of current LEAGUE football experience, and surrounded himself with plenty of experienced coaches. This HAS to be the requirement of the new Head Coach, i.e. recent league, Championship or Premier League coaching experience (i.e. Andrew Crofts), with then a requirement to bring in a big team for support, ideally with more senior experienced people.

I don't believe ND will be anymore hands on now that he was with SS, its NDs job to manage all the football elements, including academy, women's set up, big picture football strategy etc.
I am sure ND internally will have taken some of the blame for the Foster appointment, but him, CEO and Owner will also share some of that blame. This was ND's first failure at Argyle and he still has a lot of credit, as mentioned he is also there to manage a lot more than overseeing the first team structure.

A young, high performing, dynamic coach is what young players respond to now a days, and that model of a young squad with protentional to monetise assets is what Argyle are aiming for, so there is no point in appointing an old style 'Manager'.

I think the appointment of Foster was nearly a good one, the mistake was Argyle / he didn't bring in immediately a team of experienced coaches that had been managing in the league to give him that sense check, let him know he isn't managing a team of England U17s/20s etc. That said its also likely Foster wasn't willing to change / wasn't able to be the person he came across as under interview.

I am optimistic we will get it right this time....

 

[The Doctor]

Obviously don’t know how true this is
View attachment 15300

It's not clear whether this is saying that Barry still wants a Head Coach role or the Argyle Head Coach role. He's someone I would be more than happy with at Argyle.

 

[monkeywrench]

He's someone I would be more than happy with at Argyle.

Same here.

 

[WoodsyGreen]

Obviously don’t know how true this is
View attachment 15300

He's got outstanding pedigree but as I've said before, his unavailability until potentially mid-July makes him a total non-starter for me.

I get that he could send his assistant over to hold the fort, but we've just come out of a near-fatal experience with a head coach who alienated half the squad. How will it look if the next guy in doesn't even turn up until we're several weeks into pre-season?

 

[Biggs]

I see one of my silly little worries was dismissed on the Portcullis Legals podcast with SH, he was directly asked whether it was a process where it's just people applying for the job or Argyle going out and headhunting.

SH confirmed it's both and they will go out and approach people

 

[Cobi Budge]

It's not clear whether this is saying that Barry still wants a Head Coach role or the Argyle Head Coach role. He's someone I would be more than happy with at Argyle.

I would agree, but the fact he won’t arrive until after the Euro’s is a bit of a worry.

 

[Railway sleeper]

I'm absolutely not saying there is no value in experience, just not as much value as it can appear. What I think is more important is knowledge, and that's not necessarily gained from going through the motions for job after job year after year.

I agree that not every young coach is going to be a success, but that's just as true of older coaches - I appreciate Kieran McKenna is an outlier, but he actually has a lot of coaching experience for someone of 37 years of age, after stopping playing at 22.

Perhaps Shane Warne's one time assessment of Monty Panesar is the way to express my point on these older heads. According to Warne, Monty hadn't played fifty test matches, he had played one test match fifty times.

I appreciate the points your making jon , but tend to disagree that experience and success in the field is not a very key ingredient, that most sensible employers are looking for when they make appointments

As an example , why is the england international managers job given to a man with extensive club experience ? If experience is of little value, as you suggest- why didnt they give the gig to ian foster or joe Edward's (, the former millwall manager ) or somebody with a similar background ??

Do you think the liverpool gig ( when klopp leaves) will be given to a coach who's only leadership experience is with england youth ? Or perhaps to someone who has a lot of experience and success at club management ? In logic if the ' young inexperienced' coach model is so good - then why is it not used by liverpool, man utd, Chelsea etc. etc.

 

[pastiesforlife]

Barry sounds like a good appointment but Bayern may well win nothing this year despite the exploits of Harry Kane.

Foster was appointed having not won a match with Stevie G’s team for eight months.

Bit of an odd form guide to make appointments.

 

[monkeywrench]

He's got outstanding pedigree but as I've said before, his unavailability until potentially mid-July makes him a total non-starter for me.

I get that he could send his assistant over to hold the fort, but we've just come out of a near-fatal experience with a head coach who alienated half the squad. How will it look if the next guy in doesn't even turn up until we're several weeks into pre-season?

That's my concern also. How would that work???

 

[Jon with no H]

I appreciate the points your making jon , but tend to disagree that experience and success in the field is not a very key ingredient, that most sensible employers are looking for when they make appointments

As an example , why is the england international managers job given to a man with extensive club experience ? If experience is of little value, as you suggest- why didnt they give the gig to ian foster or joe Edward's (, the former millwall manager ) or somebody with a similar background ??

Do you think the liverpool gig ( when klopp leaves) will be given to a coach who's only leadership experience is with england youth ? Or perhaps to someone who has a lot of experience and success at club management ? In logic if the ' young inexperienced' coach model is so good - then why is it not used by liverpool, man utd, Chelsea etc. etc.

I don't think it's of little value, and with respect, I don't accept I've suggested that. I just don't think it's the be all and end all.

There will always be exceptions to rules. Roy Hodgson had all the experience you could ever need, but he was pretty ordinary at two of the jobs you list. Fabio Capello had a fantastic, lengthy career, but his unwillingness to bend/learn meant he was no good as England manager. Sven was a much more affable person than Capello and that only helped so much.

At that level it's far more about managing players' expectations and convincing them your methods can help them win. In any event, those jobs you list will all have far more elite level applicants than we can currently hope for at Argyle. Interestingly, Liverpool appear to have chosen a successor with around half the number of games under his belt as Klopp had when he was appointed.

In our position, I would much rather have someone in charge who knows they don't know everything than someone who thinks they do.

 

[Mark Pedlar]

That's my concern also. How would that work???

Easier for a head coach to arrive later in the off season than a manager. Dewsnip and Parkinson will be doing a lot of the recruitment and player contract work. Hour of face time or phone calls should be able to be accommodated by any international assistant I'd have thought.

 

[Wembley96]

I would agree, but the fact he won’t arrive until after the Euro’s is a bit of a worry.

Barry sounds like the perfect 'type' of person we need. If we have to wait a bit....

There is a hell lot of work to do, but setting him up early, prior to Euros, will give time. Bayern will not be distraction and all the players staying Im sure would really respect someone of that calibre, sure entice some to sign again maybe.

Regular communication could maintained throughout the summer with those already here - such a farfetched idea for the right choice?