Ability or character?

[LeonTheGreen]

Earlier this evening I watched MotD2 and one of the featured matches was the 0-0 between Chelsea and Arsenal. Wenger mentioned in his post match that they had worked an awful lot on their defensive line the past week after their capitulation last weekend and it certainly paid off. It got me thinking about Argyle's training atm moment or indeed since they reported back for Pre-season.

In hindsight we all know that goal scoring has been an issue and this is not something that should surprise anybody as during the PSFs it became apparent that we needed goals from somewhere. Then added to that, someone (sorry but I can't remember who) remarked how pre game practise there was something like 25-30 shots and only 3-4 hit the target, this being whilst there should not be any nerves or pressure. Now take away players that never take a shot (Fox for one) it should still leave 4-5-6 in the starting line up that have experience in scoring goals, whether it be a Carey screamer or a Bradley header from a corner (I can't say how Nadir scores a goal yet as nobody has seen it happen) but none of these things has occurred yet this season. This really begs the question, what do the players do during training? If the training isn't producing results, has DA changed the format in any way? Or, are the players just not good enough?

Without calling any of the players journeymen or hopeless or any other insult to their chosen profession, these are men thwart have made a living playing football in a not too shabby standard so why are they having such a hard time producing anything of note? 9 shots on Saturday is a pretty crappy figure and only 2 on target suggests they are not practising in match conditions.

There is one other possibility. Do the players brought in this season and come to that retained from last season want to play for DA and PAFC? It wouldn't be the first time that players have come to us and practically refused to play even before the signatures dried. Emile Mpenza, Jason Puncheon and the notorious Peter Swann are three names that spring to mind and I'm sure everyone has more they can add. Players that were willing to pocket their wage whilst doing nothing of note (Mpenza might be forgiven but 3 goals in one game at £10000 a week we should have expected more).

So which is it? Ability or Character because I've seen little evidence of either up till now.

You are suggesting problems when there iarent any.

Well if second from bottom doesn't suggest there are problems....would you be kind enough to let us know when there is please... :doh:

No, we were bottom of the league in August last year, losing 3 games and not scoring a goal, was that a problem?

Difference between losing your first 3 games and being 23rd after 8 games. 2 league goals from open play this season, Jervis and Wylde. 6 games without a goal from open play. Not good enough, and with only 3 striker options until November at least, if that doesn't raise alarm then nothing will.

three goals from open play

Which goal is number 3? Wylde's goal against Peterborough and Jervis' second against Charlton. Every other goal has come from a corner or a penalty unless I'm being stupid?

 

[Welwyn Pilgrim]

I may have missed the point here but you've said "

Without calling any of the players journeymen or hopeless or any other insult to their chosen profession"

and then you've suggested that maybe some players are practically refusing to play for Mr Adams and PAFC but willing to pick up their wages whilst doing nothing of note..

So by suggesting this maybe the case surely you are insulting them???

I'm a bit confused....your suggesting some players maybe claiming their wages under false pretences which to me sounds pretty insulting..

 

[Old Gunner]

There's something not quite right Ade--not sure it's ability or character. The thing that really struck me at the Blackpool match was the pre match and half time prep. something I've noticed a few times before. Blackpool's coach had them doing drills literally up until the the kick off--they were fired up and ready to go and of course it got the desired result. At half time the same coach was really putting the bench through their paces whilst our players were having a nice little unsupervised kick around. We all know that sport is as much about the mental as well as the physical approach and I just get a sense sometimes that our pre/inter match preparation is a bit amateur. It may seem a small thing but anyone who has played or been involved in sport knows that you have to be focused and primed before and during any event. Let's see what happens at the next match--but if I see our players trotting around a half time having a nice little chat I might have to go on the pitch

 

[Ade the green]

I may have missed the point here but you've said "

Without calling any of the players journeymen or hopeless or any other insult to their chosen profession"

and then you've suggested that maybe some players are practically refusing to play for Mr Adams and PAFC but willing to pick up their wages whilst doing nothing of note..

So by suggesting this maybe the case surely you are insulting them???

I'm a bit confused....your suggesting some players maybe claiming their wages under false pretences which to me sounds pretty insulting..

I've given 3 examples of players willing to take a wage from us whilst not being interested. The crux is, are we going through the same? If these players were to move on, would we suddenly see a marked improvement in either ability or character. The reason I said they weren't journeymen was that they had previously played better for others than they are doing for us.

I'm starting to lean heavily towards Up the Line's way of thinking but the main thing for me is whether DA is actually practising forward play and goal scoring?

 

[pedro91]

There's something not quite right Ade--not sure it's ability or character. The thing that really struck me at the Blackpool match was the pre match and half time prep. something I've noticed a few times before. Blackpool's coach ha d them doing drills literally up until the the kick off--they were fired up and ready to go and of course it got the desired result. At half time the same coach was really putting the bench through their paces whilst our players were having a nice little unsupervised kick around. We all know that sport is as much about the mental as well as the physical approach and I just get a sense sometimes that our pre/inter match preparation is a bit amateur. It may seem a small thing but anyone who has played or been involved in sport knows that you have to be focused and primed before and during any event. Let's see what happens at the next match--but if I see our players trotting around a half time having a nice little chat I might have to go on the pitch

Any coincidence that Blackpool are doing best of the 4 promoted teams despite going up via the play offs?

 

[Bristol Rich]

Earlier this evening I watched MotD2 and one of the featured matches was the 0-0 between Chelsea and Arsenal. Wenger mentioned in his post match that they had worked an awful lot on their defensive line the past week after their capitulation last weekend and it certainly paid off. It got me thinking about Argyle's training atm moment or indeed since they reported back for Pre-season.

In hindsight we all know that goal scoring has been an issue and this is not something that should surprise anybody as during the PSFs it became apparent that we needed goals from somewhere. Then added to that, someone (sorry but I can't remember who) remarked how pre game practise there was something like 25-30 shots and only 3-4 hit the target, this being whilst there should not be any nerves or pressure. Now take away players that never take a shot (Fox for one) it should still leave 4-5-6 in the starting line up that have experience in scoring goals, whether it be a Carey screamer or a Bradley header from a corner (I can't say how Nadir scores a goal yet as nobody has seen it happen) but none of these things has occurred yet this season. This really begs the question, what do the players do during training? If the training isn't producing results, has DA changed the format in any way? Or, are the players just not good enough?

Without calling any of the players journeymen or hopeless or any other insult to their chosen profession, these are men thwart have made a living playing football in a not too shabby standard so why are they having such a hard time producing anything of note? 9 shots on Saturday is a pretty crappy figure and only 2 on target suggests they are not practising in match conditions.

There is one other possibility. Do the players brought in this season and come to that retained from last season want to play for DA and PAFC? It wouldn't be the first time that players have come to us and practically refused to play even before the signatures dried. Emile Mpenza, Jason Puncheon and the notorious Peter Swann are three names that spring to mind and I'm sure everyone has more they can add. Players that were willing to pocket their wage whilst doing nothing of note (Mpenza might be forgiven but 3 goals in one game at £10000 a week we should have expected more).

So which is it? Ability or Character because I've seen little evidence of either up till now.

You are suggesting problems when there iarent any.

Yes everything is going exactly according to how everyone associated with Argyle would want. Nothing needs addressing, no questions need to be asked, let's just keep doing everything the same.

The powers that be and their tinted followers said the same thing in 1944 in Germany.

 

[Ave IT]

If by ‘character’ you mean morale and giving 100% then then I see no problem at all with Argyle. Going down to 10 men against MKD they worked their bits off and deserved at least a point if not all three and against Bury by all accounts it was a ‘gritty-if-not-pretty’ scrap to get a hard fought away point after things have not gone well. As someone on this thread has already pointed out, even last season (when we were a goal short of being Champions) we had spells where things went badly for us and we had posters coming on screaming about being “bottle-jobs” and confidently predicting a disastrous end to the season.

As for how good we are in terms of ability then the jury is still out as far as I’m concerned. We’ve gone up a league. We’ve had some bad luck, we’ve had three red cards in eight games, we’ve played four of the top seven teams and are missing key players. When Carey, Oscar, Taylor & Edwards are back – when we start to get the rub of the green and a kinder set of fixtures I honestly think ability-wise we will be comfortably better than at least four teams in this league.

IT’S ONLY MID_SEPTEMBER FFS!!

 

[The Doctor]

Any coincidence that Blackpool are doing best of the 4 promoted teams despite going up via the play offs?

I felt that they were far better than Argyle at the end of last season (as demonstrated by their straightforward demolition of us in a Tuesday night game at Home Park) with much more pace and movement, and Doncaster weren't exactly setting the world on fire towards the end of season.

As far as Argyle this season is concerned, in the three recent home defeats we have had plenty of chances to score before the game was lost (Scunthorpe and Blackpool both punished us late on when the game was gone). Against Blackpool we had several headers that should have been buried - it was almost more difficult to miss than to score. One, in the first half wears headed into the ground and over the bar from only a couple of yards out.

My feeling is that we are not far off where we need to be but are getting punished for ever miss, every mistake and every loss of discipline. The finishing of teams is much more ruthless in League 1 so mistakes etc. are far more costly. Argyle's start is certainly worrying but I don't think it is time to panic yet. I also note that in both of the previous two seasons under Derek Adams Argyle have started slowly before picking up. It's a cliche but I do think that at the moment we need to keep the faith...

 

[Daz]

Earlier this evening I watched MotD2 and one of the featured matches was the 0-0 between Chelsea and Arsenal. Wenger mentioned in his post match that they had worked an awful lot on their defensive line the past week after their capitulation last weekend and it certainly paid off. It got me thinking about Argyle's training atm moment or indeed since they reported back for Pre-season.

In hindsight we all know that goal scoring has been an issue and this is not something that should surprise anybody as during the PSFs it became apparent that we needed goals from somewhere. Then added to that, someone (sorry but I can't remember who) remarked how pre game practise there was something like 25-30 shots and only 3-4 hit the target, this being whilst there should not be any nerves or pressure. Now take away players that never take a shot (Fox for one) it should still leave 4-5-6 in the starting line up that have experience in scoring goals, whether it be a Carey screamer or a Bradley header from a corner (I can't say how Nadir scores a goal yet as nobody has seen it happen) but none of these things has occurred yet this season. This really begs the question, what do the players do during training? If the training isn't producing results, has DA changed the format in any way? Or, are the players just not good enough?

Without calling any of the players journeymen or hopeless or any other insult to their chosen profession, these are men thwart have made a living playing football in a not too shabby standard so why are they having such a hard time producing anything of note? 9 shots on Saturday is a pretty crappy figure and only 2 on target suggests they are not practising in match conditions.

There is one other possibility. Do the players brought in this season and come to that retained from last season want to play for DA and PAFC? It wouldn't be the first time that players have come to us and practically refused to play even before the signatures dried. Emile Mpenza, Jason Puncheon and the notorious Peter Swann are three names that spring to mind and I'm sure everyone has more they can add. Players that were willing to pocket their wage whilst doing nothing of note (Mpenza might be forgiven but 3 goals in one game at £10000 a week we should have expected more).

So which is it? Ability or Character because I've seen little evidence of either up till now.

You are suggesting problems when there iarent any.

Yes everything is going exactly according to how everyone associated with Argyle would want. Nothing needs addressing, no questions need to be asked, let's just keep doing everything the same.

The powers that be and their tinted followers said the same thing in 1944 in Germany.

What is wrong with you?

This is a football club message board.

We are talking about a local football team not world politics so cut out the ridiculous comparisons with Nazi Germany.

 

[Ade the green]

Earlier this evening I watched MotD2 and one of the featured matches was the 0-0 between Chelsea and Arsenal. Wenger mentioned in his post match that they had worked an awful lot on their defensive line the past week after their capitulation last weekend and it certainly paid off. It got me thinking about Argyle's training atm moment or indeed since they reported back for Pre-season.

In hindsight we all know that goal scoring has been an issue and this is not something that should surprise anybody as during the PSFs it became apparent that we needed goals from somewhere. Then added to that, someone (sorry but I can't remember who) remarked how pre game practise there was something like 25-30 shots and only 3-4 hit the target, this being whilst there should not be any nerves or pressure. Now take away players that never take a shot (Fox for one) it should still leave 4-5-6 in the starting line up that have experience in scoring goals, whether it be a Carey screamer or a Bradley header from a corner (I can't say how Nadir scores a goal yet as nobody has seen it happen) but none of these things has occurred yet this season. This really begs the question, what do the players do during training? If the training isn't producing results, has DA changed the format in any way? Or, are the players just not good enough?

Without calling any of the players journeymen or hopeless or any other insult to their chosen profession, these are men thwart have made a living playing football in a not too shabby standard so why are they having such a hard time producing anything of note? 9 shots on Saturday is a pretty crappy figure and only 2 on target suggests they are not practising in match conditions.

There is one other possibility. Do the players brought in this season and come to that retained from last season want to play for DA and PAFC? It wouldn't be the first time that players have come to us and practically refused to play even before the signatures dried. Emile Mpenza, Jason Puncheon and the notorious Peter Swann are three names that spring to mind and I'm sure everyone has more they can add. Players that were willing to pocket their wage whilst doing nothing of note (Mpenza might be forgiven but 3 goals in one game at £10000 a week we should have expected more).

So which is it? Ability or Character because I've seen little evidence of either up till now.

You are suggesting problems when there iarent any.

No problems! Oh that's okay then.

there are problems ade but not as severe as your are saying in my opinion.

That's fine. I'm just throwing it out there for debate, it's not like we've never been used as a pay check rather than commitment to the cause. Incidentally, Harry Redknapps closing address to the Birmingham changing room " it's been a pleasure to work with half of you!" Shows it still does happen.

 

[Bristol Rich]

Earlier this evening I watched MotD2 and one of the featured matches was the 0-0 between Chelsea and Arsenal. Wenger mentioned in his post match that they had worked an awful lot on their defensive line the past week after their capitulation last weekend and it certainly paid off. It got me thinking about Argyle's training atm moment or indeed since they reported back for Pre-season.

In hindsight we all know that goal scoring has been an issue and this is not something that should surprise anybody as during the PSFs it became apparent that we needed goals from somewhere. Then added to that, someone (sorry but I can't remember who) remarked how pre game practise there was something like 25-30 shots and only 3-4 hit the target, this being whilst there should not be any nerves or pressure. Now take away players that never take a shot (Fox for one) it should still leave 4-5-6 in the starting line up that have experience in scoring goals, whether it be a Carey screamer or a Bradley header from a corner (I can't say how Nadir scores a goal yet as nobody has seen it happen) but none of these things has occurred yet this season. This really begs the question, what do the players do during training? If the training isn't producing results, has DA changed the format in any way? Or, are the players just not good enough?

Without calling any of the players journeymen or hopeless or any other insult to their chosen profession, these are men thwart have made a living playing football in a not too shabby standard so why are they having such a hard time producing anything of note? 9 shots on Saturday is a pretty crappy figure and only 2 on target suggests they are not practising in match conditions.

There is one other possibility. Do the players brought in this season and come to that retained from last season want to play for DA and PAFC? It wouldn't be the first time that players have come to us and practically refused to play even before the signatures dried. Emile Mpenza, Jason Puncheon and the notorious Peter Swann are three names that spring to mind and I'm sure everyone has more they can add. Players that were willing to pocket their wage whilst doing nothing of note (Mpenza might be forgiven but 3 goals in one game at £10000 a week we should have expected more).

So which is it? Ability or Character because I've seen little evidence of either up till now.

You are suggesting problems when there iarent any.

Yes everything is going exactly according to how everyone associated with Argyle would want. Nothing needs addressing, no questions need to be asked, let's just keep doing everything the same.

The powers that be and their tinted followers said the same thing in 1944 in Germany.

What is wrong with you?

This is a football club message board.

We are talking about a local football team not world politics so cut out the ridiculous comparisons with Nazi Germany.

Oh for goodness sake you delicate little flower, I'm not making comparisons with the regime of Nazi Germany. I'm trying to point out that in politics like sport people can be blind to the bleeding obvious because they don't want to see it. I could have said it was obvious to everyone apart from Maggie Thatcher that she was finished in 1990.

So cut your bleating and sanctimonious preaching.

 

[Knibbsworth]

Earlier this evening I watched MotD2 and one of the featured matches was the 0-0 between Chelsea and Arsenal. Wenger mentioned in his post match that they had worked an awful lot on their defensive line the past week after their capitulation last weekend and it certainly paid off. It got me thinking about Argyle's training atm moment or indeed since they reported back for Pre-season.

In hindsight we all know that goal scoring has been an issue and this is not something that should surprise anybody as during the PSFs it became apparent that we needed goals from somewhere. Then added to that, someone (sorry but I can't remember who) remarked how pre game practise there was something like 25-30 shots and only 3-4 hit the target, this being whilst there should not be any nerves or pressure. Now take away players that never take a shot (Fox for one) it should still leave 4-5-6 in the starting line up that have experience in scoring goals, whether it be a Carey screamer or a Bradley header from a corner (I can't say how Nadir scores a goal yet as nobody has seen it happen) but none of these things has occurred yet this season. This really begs the question, what do the players do during training? If the training isn't producing results, has DA changed the format in any way? Or, are the players just not good enough?

Without calling any of the players journeymen or hopeless or any other insult to their chosen profession, these are men thwart have made a living playing football in a not too shabby standard so why are they having such a hard time producing anything of note? 9 shots on Saturday is a pretty crappy figure and only 2 on target suggests they are not practising in match conditions.

There is one other possibility. Do the players brought in this season and come to that retained from last season want to play for DA and PAFC? It wouldn't be the first time that players have come to us and practically refused to play even before the signatures dried. Emile Mpenza, Jason Puncheon and the notorious Peter Swann are three names that spring to mind and I'm sure everyone has more they can add. Players that were willing to pocket their wage whilst doing nothing of note (Mpenza might be forgiven but 3 goals in one game at £10000 a week we should have expected more).

So which is it? Ability or Character because I've seen little evidence of either up till now.

You are suggesting problems when there iarent any.

Yes everything is going exactly according to how everyone associated with Argyle would want. Nothing needs addressing, no questions need to be asked, let's just keep doing everything the same.

The powers that be and their tinted followers said the same thing in 1944 in Germany.

Crikey, Godwin's Law exhibit A

 

[Daz]

Earlier this evening I watched MotD2 and one of the featured matches was the 0-0 between Chelsea and Arsenal. Wenger mentioned in his post match that they had worked an awful lot on their defensive line the past week after their capitulation last weekend and it certainly paid off. It got me thinking about Argyle's training atm moment or indeed since they reported back for Pre-season.

In hindsight we all know that goal scoring has been an issue and this is not something that should surprise anybody as during the PSFs it became apparent that we needed goals from somewhere. Then added to that, someone (sorry but I can't remember who) remarked how pre game practise there was something like 25-30 shots and only 3-4 hit the target, this being whilst there should not be any nerves or pressure. Now take away players that never take a shot (Fox for one) it should still leave 4-5-6 in the starting line up that have experience in scoring goals, whether it be a Carey screamer or a Bradley header from a corner (I can't say how Nadir scores a goal yet as nobody has seen it happen) but none of these things has occurred yet this season. This really begs the question, what do the players do during training? If the training isn't producing results, has DA changed the format in any way? Or, are the players just not good enough?

Without calling any of the players journeymen or hopeless or any other insult to their chosen profession, these are men thwart have made a living playing football in a not too shabby standard so why are they having such a hard time producing anything of note? 9 shots on Saturday is a pretty crappy figure and only 2 on target suggests they are not practising in match conditions.

There is one other possibility. Do the players brought in this season and come to that retained from last season want to play for DA and PAFC? It wouldn't be the first time that players have come to us and practically refused to play even before the signatures dried. Emile Mpenza, Jason Puncheon and the notorious Peter Swann are three names that spring to mind and I'm sure everyone has more they can add. Players that were willing to pocket their wage whilst doing nothing of note (Mpenza might be forgiven but 3 goals in one game at £10000 a week we should have expected more).

So which is it? Ability or Character because I've seen little evidence of either up till now.

You are suggesting problems when there iarent any.

Yes everything is going exactly according to how everyone associated with Argyle would want. Nothing needs addressing, no questions need to be asked, let's just keep doing everything the same.

The powers that be and their tinted followers said the same thing in 1944 in Germany.

What is wrong with you?

This is a football club message board.

We are talking about a local football team not world politics so cut out the ridiculous comparisons with Nazi Germany.

Oh for goodness sake you delicate little flower, I'm not making comparisons with the regime of Nazi Germany. I'm trying to point out that in politics like sport people can be blind to the bleeding obvious because they don't want to see it. I could have said it was obvious to everyone apart from Maggie Thatcher that she was finished in 1990.

So cut your bleating and sanctimonious preaching.

Delicate flower made me laugh. :lol:

Nice to see you back after a few defeats anyway. :thumbs:

 

[Ottawa Green]

Godwin's Law exhibit A

Promulgated by American attorney and author Mike Godwin in 1990, Godwin's law originally referred specifically to Usenet newsgroup discussions. It is now applied to any threaded online discussion, such as Internet forums, chat rooms, and comment threads, as well as to speeches, articles, and other rhetoric where reductio ad Hitlerum occurs.

I will be signing autographs, the next time I am at Home Park.....$5 each.

 

[Bristol Rich]

Earlier this evening I watched MotD2 and one of the featured matches was the 0-0 between Chelsea and Arsenal. Wenger mentioned in his post match that they had worked an awful lot on their defensive line the past week after their capitulation last weekend and it certainly paid off. It got me thinking about Argyle's training atm moment or indeed since they reported back for Pre-season.

In hindsight we all know that goal scoring has been an issue and this is not something that should surprise anybody as during the PSFs it became apparent that we needed goals from somewhere. Then added to that, someone (sorry but I can't remember who) remarked how pre game practise there was something like 25-30 shots and only 3-4 hit the target, this being whilst there should not be any nerves or pressure. Now take away players that never take a shot (Fox for one) it should still leave 4-5-6 in the starting line up that have experience in scoring goals, whether it be a Carey screamer or a Bradley header from a corner (I can't say how Nadir scores a goal yet as nobody has seen it happen) but none of these things has occurred yet this season. This really begs the question, what do the players do during training? If the training isn't producing results, has DA changed the format in any way? Or, are the players just not good enough?

Without calling any of the players journeymen or hopeless or any other insult to their chosen profession, these are men thwart have made a living playing football in a not too shabby standard so why are they having such a hard time producing anything of note? 9 shots on Saturday is a pretty crappy figure and only 2 on target suggests they are not practising in match conditions.

There is one other possibility. Do the players brought in this season and come to that retained from last season want to play for DA and PAFC? It wouldn't be the first time that players have come to us and practically refused to play even before the signatures dried. Emile Mpenza, Jason Puncheon and the notorious Peter Swann are three names that spring to mind and I'm sure everyone has more they can add. Players that were willing to pocket their wage whilst doing nothing of note (Mpenza might be forgiven but 3 goals in one game at £10000 a week we should have expected more).

So which is it? Ability or Character because I've seen little evidence of either up till now.

You are suggesting problems when there iarent any.

Yes everything is going exactly according to how everyone associated with Argyle would want. Nothing needs addressing, no questions need to be asked, let's just keep doing everything the same.

The powers that be and their tinted followers said the same thing in 1944 in Germany.

What is wrong with you?

This is a football club message board.

We are talking about a local football team not world politics so cut out the ridiculous comparisons with Nazi Germany.

Oh for goodness sake you delicate little flower, I'm not making comparisons with the regime of Nazi Germany. I'm trying to point out that in politics like sport people can be blind to the bleeding obvious because they don't want to see it. I could have said it was obvious to everyone apart from Maggie Thatcher that she was finished in 1990.

So cut your bleating and sanctimonious preaching.

Delicate flower made me laugh. :lol:

Nice to see you back after a few defeats anyway. :thumbs:

I'll be very happy too be on here on Saturday discussing a good win. Plus it has been the cricket season until recently!