AFT Post AGM Statement + Update 15/12

[TinTin]

From afar, and being objective for that same reason, I think Leigh's comment hits the nail on the head - without trying !!

Many years ago, in The Brit, I said to ZZ that these fans groups will never succeed - with the best will in the world !!

Since the AFT, or whatever it may have been called at the start, what have we had ?

Similar to a Labour Party Conference falling out with extremist alternative views - even more left wing than Mr. Corbyn ?

Yes, it is so well documented and I refuse to stir up "old wounds".

I still maintain that groups like the AFT, or whatever name they will use or their raison d'etre for existence, will "never find what they are looking for" [from U2], not because of their own failings but of whom they are trying to represent ?

Yes, it is easy for me to stand from afar - lucky me - but I think that gives me a better perspective........or does it ?

Keep the Faith :scarf:

 

[Guiri Green]

Are any of the Upper Echelon of the AFT linked to the other Argyle related sites and Groups ?

As a non member, having seen the way anyone with a differing opinion or even the slightest hint of enthusiasm for anything the Club does is regarded by some of the posters on those other Groups / Sites, I'm not so sure I would now want to join.

Freedom of speech and opinion is to be applauded but the upfront abuse and undisguised personal vendettas I've seen whilst browsing, has made me realise that maybe fair representation might not be a realistic ambition.

 

[PL2 3DQ]

It's bizarre that the person who provides an Internet platform for unmoderated abuse of JB, directors and fans is now on the board of the AFT.

I only find your objection bizarre to be honest Posty and let’s be clear it’s not because I’m a fan of the Facebook Group in question. I’m not a member of it. On the Argyle fans spectrum I’m at the Pasoti end and try to avoid the nonsense from all parties.

However, on what grounds would you like to see someone effectively barred from being on the AFT Board? Because their opinions differ to yours? I think Nigel Farage is an odious, little man and yet I have no objections with his eligibility to stand for Parliament.

And that eligibility for election is the crux of it. You could have put yourself forward but you didn’t. Plenty here have berated the Trust and few of them have ever put themselves forward. I keep banging this drum but if you want to see a change in the AFT, be that change.

From a personal perspective, I understand your concerns. I am supportive of the Argyle Board in the main and would like to see a Trust that takes that stand point also. However, I didn’t stand and nor did I encourage other fans to do so.

Hi Frazer.

I didn't mention opinions and I wouldn't anyone barred because their opinions are different to mine.

My point was ....

How can John Lloyd represent Argyle fans when he allows abuse and character assassination of Argyle fans on his Facebook page, which he refuses to moderate because it's so called 'free speech'?
I suppose it's up to current AFT members who are being abused to decide if they want to remain a AFT member.

Secondly, how can John Lloyd sit across from JB and the directors when his Facebook page is being used to insult them?
There's already been at least two instances where the club had to step in and complain about comments on that Facebook group because it went unmoderated.
Plus, JB at a recent Fans Forum mentioned the Facebook page doesn't put the club in a good light for those who use Facebook to search for information on PAFC.

Different opinions and criticism are fine but the comments on that Facebook page regularly over step the mark, which is why I find it bizarre that the orchestrator is now on the AFT Board.
Freedom of speech is also fine but it comes with responsibility.

 

[TinTin]

And there lies................

Keep the Faith :scarf:

 

[IJN]

Only 600 people? Perhaps 200/300 of which possibly only renew because they can’t be arsed to change their Standing Order.

I reckon John Lloyd will have AFT epaulettes made and Willis will write to the Herald again, again and again.

Glad to see Bob Foale as Chairman and Tony Cannan still involved, both decent fans in my opinion, both love their club more than their ego.

 

[Knarf Reprah]

Only 600 people? Perhaps 200/300 of which possibly only renew because they can’t be arsed to change their Standing Order.

I reckon John Lloyd will have AFT epaulettes made and Willis will write to the Herald again, again and again.

Glad to see Bob Foale as Chairman and Tony Cannan still involved, both decent fans in my opinion, both love their club more than their ego.

Great shame imho to see the aft going down this route, I agree with all the comments above by IJN......I must be mellowing in my dotage.

 

[Leigh Rapson]

To be fair Frazer, one of the then members of the board tried to stop Frank Harper from standing for election based on his views, why is this different? MR Lloyd isn’t exactly good at being strong and moderating and Mr Willis is a Brent hater. The majority of that board is bad for the AFT and membership will only fropnfurther.

The ones I feel for are those who were originally involved in its creation, they must be despairing.

Not technically correct, I was subjected to a campaign of vitriol because "they" thought i was going to be a conduit to someone who is very close to the Board.
I was elected easily, but the freaks didn't want me on the board , so I resigned....democracy.

I note that the membership has dropped by approx 50%, and now there are at least two "Brent haters" within the inner sanctum of the AFT I cannot see the purpose of it continuing anymore......a shame

Frank I was asked by a then serving member of the board to withdraw my support for you because of your racist and bigoted views. Their comments not mine btw.

I refused and said that you needed balance on the board and that you would self moderate should it be required.

 

[Knarf Reprah]

To be fair Frazer, one of the then members of the board tried to stop Frank Harper from standing for election based on his views, why is this different? MR Lloyd isn’t exactly good at being strong and moderating and Mr Willis is a Brent hater. The majority of that board is bad for the AFT and membership will only fropnfurther.

The ones I feel for are those who were originally involved in its creation, they must be despairing.

Not technically correct, I was subjected to a campaign of vitriol because "they" thought i was going to be a conduit to someone who is very close to the Board.
I was elected easily, but the freaks didn't want me on the board , so I resigned....democracy.

I note that the membership has dropped by approx 50%, and now there are at least two "Brent haters" within the inner sanctum of the AFT I cannot see the purpose of it continuing anymore......a shame

Frank I was asked by a then serving member of the board to withdraw my support for you because of your racist and bigoted views. Their comments not mine btw.

I refused and said that you needed balance on the board and that you would self moderate should it be required.

Thanks Leigh appreciate that.......racist? Ask gem in dingles and John Chuku, it was all part of the plan to remove me because of my alleged subservience to a certain pasoti poster who is close to the board. TBH I'm glad I resigned, the aft is going down the pan, I don't see how the board can liaise properly with the Brent haters.

 

[Leigh Rapson]

To be honest Frank, as much as it will astound both of us, I agree totally.

 

[Knarf Reprah]

To be honest Frank, as much as it will astound both of us, I agree totally.

:shocked: stunned! That's a first mate!

 

[TinTin]

Maybe.............just maybe............... ?

There is scope for............................????

Keep the Faith :scarf:

 

[Frazer Lloyd-Davies]

Hi Frazer.

I didn't mention opinions and I wouldn't anyone barred because their opinions are different to mine.

My point was ....

How can John Lloyd represent Argyle fans when he allows abuse and character assassination of Argyle fans on his Facebook page, which he refuses to moderate because it's so called 'free speech'?
I suppose it's up to current AFT members who are being abused to decide if they want to remain a AFT member.

Secondly, how can John Lloyd sit across from JB and the directors when his Facebook page is being used to insult them?
There's already been at least two instances where the club had to step in and complain about comments on that Facebook group because it went unmoderated.
Plus, JB at a recent Fans Forum mentioned the Facebook page doesn't put the club in a good light for those who use Facebook to search for information on PAFC.

Different opinions and criticism are fine but the comments on that Facebook page regularly over step the mark, which is why I find it bizarre that the orchestrator is now on the AFT Board.
Freedom of speech is also fine but it comes with responsibility.

I think we're somewhat in agreement Posty.

What I was trying to say is that John Lloyd was elected to the AFT Board via their agreed upon processes. The same process that could ultimately see anyone elected. I think it's important that we have a Trust with open elections and support the right of any Argyle fan to contribute to such. So in that respect, I have no problem with these results and that's what prompted my earlier response.

What I agree with is the difficulties that this may create between the AFT and the Club. As an AFT Board Member I wanted to see closer unity between the club and the AFT, and as a member today, that is still the case. The AFT need the club on board if it is to succeed as an organisation and despite some misconceptions, that doesn't mean you have to be a suck up either.

 

[IJN]

Frazer, anyone can't get elected, Mr Harper's case proved that.

As soon as he was proposed, the chattering that went on was amazing, Symons and others dug up what they could on him and he was forced to stand down in the end.

It's really quite simple. he was right of centre, all the AFT are left of centre to varying degrees.

It's so obvious it's funny. I don't take the AFT seriously for this reason, like minded people, I call it a cabal, thinking of ways they can screw JB over. He represents what most of them (not all I hasten to add) detest. I can name them. Willis, Blight, Lloyd, Celia, Chown to name just a few. It doesn't take any digging to know this it is really that obvious. I amazed Peggy Prior hasn't been voted in, but I assume she didn't want to, or else she would have been a shoe in I'm sure.

Still, they hold 'power' within the group they want to be involved with, good for them, I and many, many like me couldn't care a fish's wotsit what they think. They certainly do NOT represent the rank and file Argyle fans, no way.

Do we need an AFT, yes I think we do, we wont always be as lucky as we are now (on the law if averages), so this lot can look after it until we need it again, whether that be 5 years or 25 years. IF or when it's needed, the new fighters can take over, until then, the politicos can fill their ego ridden boots.

 

[Green Matt]

It's really quite simple. he was right of centre, all the AFT are left of centre to varying degrees.

Most interesting. Would you or anyone else care to elaborate any further on this?

 

[Maidenhead Green]

Frazer, anyone can't get elected, Mr Harper's case proved that.

As soon as he was proposed, the chattering that went on was amazing, Symons and others dug up what they could on him and he was forced to stand down in the end.

It's really quite simple. he was right of centre, all the AFT are left of centre to varying degrees.

It's so obvious it's funny. I don't take the AFT seriously for this reason, like minded people, I call it a cabal, thinking of ways they can screw JB over. He represents what most of them (not all I hasten to add) detest. I can name them. Willis, Blight, Lloyd, Celia, Chown to name just a few. It doesn't take any digging to know this it is really that obvious. I amazed Peggy Prior hasn't been voted in, but I assume she didn't want to, or else she would have been a shoe in I'm sure.

Still, they hold 'power' within the group they want to be involved with, good for them, I and many, many like me couldn't care a fish's wotsit what they think. They certainly do NOT represent the rank and file Argyle fans, no way.

Do we need an AFT, yes I think we do, we wont always be as lucky as we are now (on the law if averages), so this lot can look after it until we need it again, whether that be 5 years or 25 years. IF or when it's needed, the new fighters can take over, until then, the politicos can fill their ego ridden boots.

I'd say that the BNP, and anyone who likes them on Facebook, is just a little further to the right than "right of centre". I'm no socialist rabble rouser, but nor would I want Argyle fans represented by someone with those particular "leanings".