AFT Post AGM Statement + Update 15/12

[JRDub]

...

My point was ....

How can John Lloyd represent Argyle fans when he allows abuse and character assassination of Argyle fans on his Facebook page, which he refuses to moderate because it's so called 'free speech'?
I suppose it's up to current AFT members who are being abused to decide if they want to remain a AFT member.

Secondly, how can John Lloyd sit across from JB and the directors when his Facebook page is being used to insult them?
There's already been at least two instances where the club had to step in and complain about comments on that Facebook group because it went unmoderated.
Plus, JB at a recent Fans Forum mentioned the Facebook page doesn't put the club in a good light for those who use Facebook to search for information on PAFC.

Different opinions and criticism are fine but the comments on that Facebook page regularly over step the mark, which is why I find it bizarre that the orchestrator is now on the AFT Board.
Freedom of speech is also fine but it comes with responsibility.

I find the above quite amusing...

"How can John Lloyd represent Argyle fans when he allows abuse and character assassination of Argyle fans on his Facebook page, which he refuses to moderate because it's so called 'free speech'?"
The best person to answer that is probably John Lloyd.

"...how can John Lloyd sit across from JB and the directors when his Facebook page is being used to insult them?"
Mr Lloyd is probably best placed to answer that.

But unfortunately John Lloyd can't respond to the above challenges / criticisms because he is banned from Pasoti for "personal insults and attacks on Pasoti members and moderators".

Ironic. Is it ok then for Pasoti members and moderators to criticise non Pasoti members who have no right of reply? At least if you are criticised / attacked on free chat, you have the ability to respond and defend yourself!

(NB. I am not a fan of free chat, ATD, or anything similar. Simply highlighting the irony.)

 

[IJN]

Nor I MG, I was not aware that was the case.

If I had my time again, I would never have nominated him that's for sure, but that's a personal issue and not political in any way.

However, it should have been openly done and not all whisper and innuendo which was the case at the time.

I would also suggest that being a Trotskyite is as abhorrent as having BNP leanings, but it didn't stop Symons from being Chairman for a short while did it?

 

[IJN]

At least if you are criticised / attacked on free chat, you have the ability to respond and defend yourself!

(NB. I am not a fan of free chat, ATD, or anything similar. Simply highlighting the irony.)

Do you also believe in the Tooth Fairy Jon?

Criticised or attacked? Have you read the stuff on that odious page?

If Ian or I attempted to speak on there we give the oxygen thieves fuel for months and months. We can't win, can we?

We have no right to reply, in so much as the bush burning parasites would be on us in seconds, repeating and repeating what they already repeat.

Have a word with yourself mate, 'right to reply'?????

 

[IJN]

It's really quite simple. he was right of centre, all the AFT are left of centre to varying degrees.

Most interesting. Would you or anyone else care to elaborate any further on this?

I should have said 'most' not 'all', it would have avoided that question.

 

[Knarf Reprah]

I am not and never have been a supporter of the bnp I wear the star of david

 

[Leigh Rapson]

I am not and never have been a supporter of the bnp I wear the star of david

Blaine?

 

[Knarf Reprah]

Nope as u well know shalom

 

[JRDub]

At least if you are criticised / attacked on free chat, you have the ability to respond and defend yourself!

(NB. I am not a fan of free chat, ATD, or anything similar. Simply highlighting the irony.)

Do you also believe in the Tooth Fairy Jon?

Criticised or attacked? Have you read the stuff on that odious page?

If Ian or I attempted to speak on there we give the oxygen thieves fuel for months and months. We can't win, can we?

We have no right to reply, in so much as the bush burning parasites would be on us in seconds, repeating and repeating what they already repeat.

Have a word with yourself mate, 'right to reply'?????

I have been a Pasoti member for 15 years, and an Argyle fan for 30+, so I am familiar with the background.

You absolutely do have a right to reply on free chat. I recognise you are in a difficult position and I understand why you choose not to respond. But that's your choice; you could if you really wanted to.

I stand by my earlier point; Posty's post about John Lloyd is (at best) personal criticism. I find it ironic that the person in question has been banned for that very offence, yet it remains ok for a moderator to publicly criticise someone who has no way to respond.

Do I believe in the tooth fairy? I have an 8 year old daughter... I AM the tooth fairy!

 

[IJN]

:greensmile: Have a good Christmas Jon.

I'm not posting on this one any more, there is no point, people know where I stand.

I'm out.

 

[PL2 3DQ]

At least if you are criticised / attacked on free chat, you have the ability to respond and defend yourself!

(NB. I am not a fan of free chat, ATD, or anything similar. Simply highlighting the irony.)

Do you also believe in the Tooth Fairy Jon?

Criticised or attacked? Have you read the stuff on that odious page?

If Ian or I attempted to speak on there we give the oxygen thieves fuel for months and months. We can't win, can we?

We have no right to reply, in so much as the bush burning parasites would be on us in seconds, repeating and repeating what they already repeat.

Have a word with yourself mate, 'right to reply'?????

I have been a Pasoti member for 15 years, and an Argyle fan for 30+, so I am familiar with the background.

You absolutely do have a right to reply on free chat. I recognise you are in a difficult position and I understand why you choose not to respond. But that's your choice; you could if you really wanted to.

I stand by my earlier point; Posty's post about John Lloyd is (at best) personal criticism. I find it ironic that the person in question has been banned for that very offence, yet it remains ok for a moderator to publicly criticise someone who has no way to respond.

Do I believe in the tooth fairy? I have an 8 year old daughter... I AM the tooth fairy!

My post was criticism of the way John Lloyd allows personal abuse of directors and fans on his Facebook page, it was not personal abuse aimed at John Lloyd and is nowhere near the insults, abuse and character assassination that he allows.

 

[Maidenhead Green]

I am not and never have been a supporter of the bnp I wear the star of david

I have seen evidence to the contrary.

 

[Knarf Reprah]

Nope prob a mate who thought it was amusing he also enrolled me in Plymouth gay site I have nowt to hide so am out of here

 

[Ollieargyle9]

At least if you are criticised / attacked on free chat, you have the ability to respond and defend yourself!

(NB. I am not a fan of free chat, ATD, or anything similar. Simply highlighting the irony.)

Do you also believe in the Tooth Fairy Jon?

Criticised or attacked? Have you read the stuff on that odious page?

If Ian or I attempted to speak on there we give the oxygen thieves fuel for months and months. We can't win, can we?

We have no right to reply, in so much as the bush burning parasites would be on us in seconds, repeating and repeating what they already repeat.

Have a word with yourself mate, 'right to reply'?????

I have been a Pasoti member for 15 years, and an Argyle fan for 30+, so I am familiar with the background.

You absolutely do have a right to reply on free chat. I recognise you are in a difficult position and I understand why you choose not to respond. But that's your choice; you could if you really wanted to.

I stand by my earlier point; Posty's post about John Lloyd is (at best) personal criticism. I find it ironic that the person in question has been banned for that very offence, yet it remains ok for a moderator to publicly criticise someone who has no way to respond.

Do I believe in the tooth fairy? I have an 8 year old daughter... I AM the tooth fairy!

Saying the John Lloyd runs a Facebook page is not a personal insult and so remains on Pasoti. It is a statement of fact, whether you feel the person supposedly moderating what is posted on that page is fit to run the AFT is down to your own personal view.

In terms of a right of reply, John is banned from Pasoti. That said it wouldn't surprise me if he was still on here under a different name, such is the way of the Electronic world.

 

[JRDub]

Saying the John Lloyd runs a Facebook page is not a personal insult and so remains on Pasoti. It is a statement of fact, whether you feel the person supposedly moderating what is posted on that page is fit to run the AFT is down to your own personal view.

In terms of a right of reply, John is banned from Pasoti. That said it wouldn't surprise me if he was still on here under a different name, such is the way of the Electronic world.

That he runs a Facebook page is a fact.

That "he allows abuse and character assassination of Argyle fans on his Facebook page, which he refuses to moderate because it's so called 'free speech'" is not a fact; it is an assertion - someone's subjective opinion (which may or may not be accurate). It may not be a personal insult, but it is certainly negative - it's an implied slight on his character in so far as it clearly implies what he is doing is wrong.

The point is, John Lloyd cannot respond. Posting a negative statement about someone on a public forum is (arguably) wrong - after all, that's the main criticism of free chat, isn't it? So surely posting a negative statement about someone on a public forum and denying them the opportunity to respond (by banning them from the forum) is even worse?

 

[PL2 3DQ]

Saying the John Lloyd runs a Facebook page is not a personal insult and so remains on Pasoti. It is a statement of fact, whether you feel the person supposedly moderating what is posted on that page is fit to run the AFT is down to your own personal view.

In terms of a right of reply, John is banned from Pasoti. That said it wouldn't surprise me if he was still on here under a different name, such is the way of the Electronic world.

That he runs a Facebook page is a fact.

That "he allows abuse and character assassination of Argyle fans on his Facebook page, which he refuses to moderate because it's so called 'free speech'" is not a fact; it is an assertion - someone's subjective opinion (which may or may not be accurate). It may not be a personal insult, but it is certainly negative - it's an implied slight on his character in so far as it clearly implies what he is doing is wrong.

The point is, John Lloyd cannot respond. Posting a negative statement about someone on a public forum is (arguably) wrong - after all, that's the main criticism of free chat, isn't it? So surely posting a negative statement about someone on a public forum and denying them the opportunity to respond (by banning them from the forum) is even worse?

It's a fact, not a subjective opinion, that I have asked him to remove or moderate something about me posted on his Facebook page and he refused, citing "free speech".