Lamerias 7. That is brilliant. No really. That is amazing. I mean truly outstanding. Just legendary.
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Brief Synopsis!!! (Doncaster)
- Thread starter Mark Pedlar
- Start date
Wonder if those (now) quiet souls who lambasted me after the Charlton game still think I was nuts for predicting tough times were ahead? Feel free to speak up Cobi Budge! Going all shy.
And yes just like the Charlton game, I attended today's game and will repeat what I said after Charlton - without significant improvement we are in trouble. Massive thanks to PASOTI for providing two free tickets!
-- Few thoughts on the game. Bright start but too deep, too deep. First time seeing Ciftci. My thoughts on him are that he is a very capable footballer, too capable for the players around him such as Sarcevic and Songo'o. He needs better players around him. I can see the slowness in his game and potential laziness, however his first half was very bright. With runners around him and players who can give him service he could be a player. Unfortunately, he is surrounded by poor players such as Sarcevic and Miller.
Sarcevic - Just not good enough. He's supposed to be an attacking player but he doesn't get on the ball, command or influence the game and doesn't have the required fitness. I sincerely hope Carey replaces him and the likes of Ness and Fox continue to protect the defence. Ciftci kept dropping deep to pick up the ball and link the play - it is players like Sarcevic who should be doing this but he's just wondering around chasing shadows. Unfortunately that left Fletcher even more isolated than need be and he couldn't interact with the game too much.
Gary Sawyer and Gary Miller - Not up to standard. Slightly harsh on Sawyer but not on Miller. He is quite clearly struggling at this level and requires replacing. I would promote a youth player who knows hot to pass a ball to feet.
We played positively in the first half but our play was not founded on anything but 'hope'. There was no real strategy. Ciftci was picking the ball deep to link play because our midfielders were/are too static and not influencing the game enough, Fletcher isolated, Lamieras wanted to play but has little chance with the poor footballers he had next to him and out wide, and our full backs are ordinary and uncomfortable in possession.
Very disappointing but somehow not surprising. It's quite obvious that specific players are not up to the job and require replacing. We need to address the issue in midfield and at full-back. There's no control or strategy, just hope.
Ciftci was our best player for me (and he wasn't great). All our football in the first half went through him. Only him and Lamieras showed any semblance of being a footballer. They were the reasons why we played some neat football.
And yes just like the Charlton game, I attended today's game and will repeat what I said after Charlton - without significant improvement we are in trouble. Massive thanks to PASOTI for providing two free tickets!
-- Few thoughts on the game. Bright start but too deep, too deep. First time seeing Ciftci. My thoughts on him are that he is a very capable footballer, too capable for the players around him such as Sarcevic and Songo'o. He needs better players around him. I can see the slowness in his game and potential laziness, however his first half was very bright. With runners around him and players who can give him service he could be a player. Unfortunately, he is surrounded by poor players such as Sarcevic and Miller.
Sarcevic - Just not good enough. He's supposed to be an attacking player but he doesn't get on the ball, command or influence the game and doesn't have the required fitness. I sincerely hope Carey replaces him and the likes of Ness and Fox continue to protect the defence. Ciftci kept dropping deep to pick up the ball and link the play - it is players like Sarcevic who should be doing this but he's just wondering around chasing shadows. Unfortunately that left Fletcher even more isolated than need be and he couldn't interact with the game too much.
Gary Sawyer and Gary Miller - Not up to standard. Slightly harsh on Sawyer but not on Miller. He is quite clearly struggling at this level and requires replacing. I would promote a youth player who knows hot to pass a ball to feet.
We played positively in the first half but our play was not founded on anything but 'hope'. There was no real strategy. Ciftci was picking the ball deep to link play because our midfielders were/are too static and not influencing the game enough, Fletcher isolated, Lamieras wanted to play but has little chance with the poor footballers he had next to him and out wide, and our full backs are ordinary and uncomfortable in possession.
Very disappointing but somehow not surprising. It's quite obvious that specific players are not up to the job and require replacing. We need to address the issue in midfield and at full-back. There's no control or strategy, just hope.
Ciftci was our best player for me (and he wasn't great). All our football in the first half went through him. Only him and Lamieras showed any semblance of being a footballer. They were the reasons why we played some neat football.
F
Frazer Lloyd-Davies
Guest
Amazed you gave Bradley such a generous score. If he gets away with a three match ban we will be lucky.
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I'm really worried ! ADAMS already has them doing 6 days a weeks and double sessions ! If that's the best they can muster his sessions must be total poo ! Either thatvor so technically brilliant these average players can't get his ideas anyway we are lucky that we can use that 7th day to sort it out !
Sonny Bradley if I am having a bad day at work and just pinch someone I get sacked ! Time to grow up and be counted. The GA deserve better after this 7-8 years of poo
Sonny Bradley if I am having a bad day at work and just pinch someone I get sacked ! Time to grow up and be counted. The GA deserve better after this 7-8 years of poo
Did anyone actually see what Bradley did? No-one around me had a clue what the card was for at the time.
Terrible all over really and beaten by the better side, in fact it should have been 4 or 5+.
McCormick 4
Miller 4
Sawyer 6
Edwards 6
Bradley 3
Songo'o 5
Ness 5
Sarsevic 7
Lameiras 5
Ciftci 4
Fletcher 6
Fox 5
Wylde 6
Ainsworth 5
Poor all over.
Once again our main width was created by full backs who cannot attack.
Ciftci is not a footballer of any kind, he won 2 headers all day and both were free headers out wide.
Fletcher tried but t was boys against men.
Sarsevic was our main spark and had a reasonable game.
Lameiras has good feet but is too lightweight and also his positional sense is questionable (hence why he did not get the ball much).
We will go down with this team. Go back to 451 with actual wide players. Send ciftci back and get a proper target man.
McCormick 4
Miller 4
Sawyer 6
Edwards 6
Bradley 3
Songo'o 5
Ness 5
Sarsevic 7
Lameiras 5
Ciftci 4
Fletcher 6
Fox 5
Wylde 6
Ainsworth 5
Poor all over.
Once again our main width was created by full backs who cannot attack.
Ciftci is not a footballer of any kind, he won 2 headers all day and both were free headers out wide.
Fletcher tried but t was boys against men.
Sarsevic was our main spark and had a reasonable game.
Lameiras has good feet but is too lightweight and also his positional sense is questionable (hence why he did not get the ball much).
We will go down with this team. Go back to 451 with actual wide players. Send ciftci back and get a proper target man.
- Oct 31, 2010
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Another frustrating match at Home Park.
Three goals conceded with two disallowed, another red card - our fourth in successive home games - and not a single shot on target.
The players look shell shocked, what has happened to the team from last season, something doesn't appear to right within the squad, although we finished the game with only four players from last season.
It also looked like Adams is playing a half-fit McCormick.
In truth, the tactics and mindset were all wrong from the first whistle. Adams had the team set-up to defend and contain, this would be understandable against a team who were top of the league but we were at home against a Doncaster team just one point above us.
We had no width and no Plan B.
With Ciftci and Fletcher named in the team it looked like we would be playing with two strikers but Ciftci was played out of position on the left and drifted inside to partner Fletcher when we were attacking, which wasn't very often.
Lameiras played on the right despite two wide players sat on the bench.
Songo'o played just in front of the back four and Ness and Sarcevic operated in front of him to the left and right.
We gave Doncaster far too much respect and sat back and allowed them to have to ball, once we were in this defensive mindset it was difficult to break out of it.
The ref was quick to show yellow cards to Miller and Lameiras but didn't book the Doncaster players for similar offences.
Former loan player Jordan Houghton was fouled by Songo'o although there didn't look to be too much in the tackle and he sarcastically applauded the Lyndhurst side who made their feelings known.
We did have one chance when Fletcher fired over when a difficult cross reached him but that was about it for the whole game.
Doncaster's goal came from a corner, McCormick made a fantastic save from the initial shot, pushing the ball onto the crossbar but it fell to Butler and finished off the loose ball.
McCormick was injured making the save and received treatment, he had already picked up injuries at Walsall and Bury so you have to wonder if he is really fully fit?
He recovered to continue but would make a mistake in the second half.
Fox replaced Songo'o at the start of the second half but he made little difference and it was Doncaster who were still easily the better team.
Adams didn't change much else except move Ciftci a little closer to Fletcher but the yougnster was still left battling against two big hairy arsed centre-backs, the poor lad needed support and service and got neither.
The second Doncaster goal came from - surprise, surprise - a corner. McCormick spilled a shot and Marquis turned in the loose ball - the second Doncaster player to react quicker to a loose ball to score.
Argyle heads went down along with the performance, some players downed tools and just went through the motions.
Wylde and Ainsworth replaced Miller and the anonymous Ness but both wingers would finish the game as wing backs!
The third goal was a speculative shot that deceived McCormick and nestled into the far corner. A fully fit McCormick would have dealt with Doncaster's second and third goals a lot better.
The icing on the cake for another miserable day at Home Park was Bradley picking up a red card for violent conduct. Not many would have noticed whatever happened but the ref noticed Bradley punch a Doncaster player.
We now have nearly as many red cards as goals scored this season.
We ended the game with a farcical 4-5 formation and the fans singing "all the way, all the way, all the way to League Two".
That was the worst performance I've seen for a long time, the players were not up for it and the negative tactics at the start of the game didn't help.
It's perfectly fine to sit back, stifle and contain teams like Liverpool or good teams in League One and Two but not against a "relegation rival" when we desperately need a win.
Other managers know Adams likes to contain and play on the counter attack, it's old news, so they set out to play against us accordingly and try to grab that important first goal.
Once we concede the first goal our containing game plan goes out of the window and we find it difficult to switch tactics and mindset.
Ness was poor and just strolled through the game, no energy and no pace, Sarcevic played well until the third goal and then gave up.
McCormick should have been subbed, it was a risk to keep playing him rather than waste a sub and it back fired.
Lameiras was full of flicks and tricks but no end product, he looked very good against pre-season opposition in the summer but is struggling against the League One professionals.
Bradley lost the plot with his sending off and was clearly frustrated. There's a lot of frustration amongst the players and something doesn't seem right.
I felt sorry for Ciftci, he was played out of position and tried his best.
Where do we go from here?
McCormick 5, Miller 6, Edwards 6, Bradley 3, Sawyer 6, Ness 4, Sarcevic 6, Songo'o 5, Lameiras 5, Fletcher 5, Ciftci 6. Subs: Fox 5, Wylde 5, Ainsworth 6.
Three goals conceded with two disallowed, another red card - our fourth in successive home games - and not a single shot on target.
The players look shell shocked, what has happened to the team from last season, something doesn't appear to right within the squad, although we finished the game with only four players from last season.
It also looked like Adams is playing a half-fit McCormick.
In truth, the tactics and mindset were all wrong from the first whistle. Adams had the team set-up to defend and contain, this would be understandable against a team who were top of the league but we were at home against a Doncaster team just one point above us.
We had no width and no Plan B.
With Ciftci and Fletcher named in the team it looked like we would be playing with two strikers but Ciftci was played out of position on the left and drifted inside to partner Fletcher when we were attacking, which wasn't very often.
Lameiras played on the right despite two wide players sat on the bench.
Songo'o played just in front of the back four and Ness and Sarcevic operated in front of him to the left and right.
We gave Doncaster far too much respect and sat back and allowed them to have to ball, once we were in this defensive mindset it was difficult to break out of it.
The ref was quick to show yellow cards to Miller and Lameiras but didn't book the Doncaster players for similar offences.
Former loan player Jordan Houghton was fouled by Songo'o although there didn't look to be too much in the tackle and he sarcastically applauded the Lyndhurst side who made their feelings known.
We did have one chance when Fletcher fired over when a difficult cross reached him but that was about it for the whole game.
Doncaster's goal came from a corner, McCormick made a fantastic save from the initial shot, pushing the ball onto the crossbar but it fell to Butler and finished off the loose ball.
McCormick was injured making the save and received treatment, he had already picked up injuries at Walsall and Bury so you have to wonder if he is really fully fit?
He recovered to continue but would make a mistake in the second half.
Fox replaced Songo'o at the start of the second half but he made little difference and it was Doncaster who were still easily the better team.
Adams didn't change much else except move Ciftci a little closer to Fletcher but the yougnster was still left battling against two big hairy arsed centre-backs, the poor lad needed support and service and got neither.
The second Doncaster goal came from - surprise, surprise - a corner. McCormick spilled a shot and Marquis turned in the loose ball - the second Doncaster player to react quicker to a loose ball to score.
Argyle heads went down along with the performance, some players downed tools and just went through the motions.
Wylde and Ainsworth replaced Miller and the anonymous Ness but both wingers would finish the game as wing backs!
The third goal was a speculative shot that deceived McCormick and nestled into the far corner. A fully fit McCormick would have dealt with Doncaster's second and third goals a lot better.
The icing on the cake for another miserable day at Home Park was Bradley picking up a red card for violent conduct. Not many would have noticed whatever happened but the ref noticed Bradley punch a Doncaster player.
We now have nearly as many red cards as goals scored this season.
We ended the game with a farcical 4-5 formation and the fans singing "all the way, all the way, all the way to League Two".
That was the worst performance I've seen for a long time, the players were not up for it and the negative tactics at the start of the game didn't help.
It's perfectly fine to sit back, stifle and contain teams like Liverpool or good teams in League One and Two but not against a "relegation rival" when we desperately need a win.
Other managers know Adams likes to contain and play on the counter attack, it's old news, so they set out to play against us accordingly and try to grab that important first goal.
Once we concede the first goal our containing game plan goes out of the window and we find it difficult to switch tactics and mindset.
Ness was poor and just strolled through the game, no energy and no pace, Sarcevic played well until the third goal and then gave up.
McCormick should have been subbed, it was a risk to keep playing him rather than waste a sub and it back fired.
Lameiras was full of flicks and tricks but no end product, he looked very good against pre-season opposition in the summer but is struggling against the League One professionals.
Bradley lost the plot with his sending off and was clearly frustrated. There's a lot of frustration amongst the players and something doesn't seem right.
I felt sorry for Ciftci, he was played out of position and tried his best.
Where do we go from here?
McCormick 5, Miller 6, Edwards 6, Bradley 3, Sawyer 6, Ness 4, Sarcevic 6, Songo'o 5, Lameiras 5, Fletcher 5, Ciftci 6. Subs: Fox 5, Wylde 5, Ainsworth 6.
I have to share the experience previously quoted that that's the worst Argyle performance in over 30 years. Relegation is looking nailed-on, because the quality of this squad is just not good enough, and all the coaching in the world won't change that. I'm inclined to think that last year's squad with no changes would have made a better fist of it. Usually it's the hope that kills you. No danger of that this season.
My understanding is that in a loan deal, the club that takes a player on loan has to pay the full wages of the player to the host club if that player does not play (instead of half their wages when they do play).
Can this be the only explanation that Ciftci is starting each match ?
Is it a coincidence that since he arrived, it has gone downhill so rapidly?
What does Ciftci bring? A striker is there to score goals. He has a barely had a chance in open play since he came
.
Can his deal be terminated? Clearly something has completely wrong in the dressing room.
Can this be the only explanation that Ciftci is starting each match ?
Is it a coincidence that since he arrived, it has gone downhill so rapidly?
What does Ciftci bring? A striker is there to score goals. He has a barely had a chance in open play since he came
.
Can his deal be terminated? Clearly something has completely wrong in the dressing room.
One of theirs up close to him must have pinched Sonny in the back or similar, as Sonny spun round and cuffed him on the back of the head, is what I saw. No appeal there.
The lack of confidence in attack, to hold it, have other players want to get into space or have the ball, in Carey's absence, is damning. Fletcher may have appetite greater than most at the moment, but isn't schooled enough to dig us out of this mess.
One draw away enough in the next 7 days to limp through, but if Adams can't at least get a performance against our lower league neighbours in the cheapskate then he's doomed I suspect.
The lack of confidence in attack, to hold it, have other players want to get into space or have the ball, in Carey's absence, is damning. Fletcher may have appetite greater than most at the moment, but isn't schooled enough to dig us out of this mess.
One draw away enough in the next 7 days to limp through, but if Adams can't at least get a performance against our lower league neighbours in the cheapskate then he's doomed I suspect.
Add to it that was Donny's Third game in 6 days. One of their players comes off because he was shattered!
Argyle are too predictable and the mental fragility is well and truly set in. We cannot score and we cannot score in the first half. When we concede the first goal we lose.
Two tough fixtures ahead. Make or break.
Argyle are too predictable and the mental fragility is well and truly set in. We cannot score and we cannot score in the first half. When we concede the first goal we lose.
Two tough fixtures ahead. Make or break.
The Doctor":pf8g0vjo said:
A bit of rough and tumble with the centre-half. Bradley pushed him away, centre-half grabbed at his shirt to which Bradley responded with a kind of forearm smash. That's how I recall it anyway. Another fully deserved idiotic red, but given he hasn't been playing that well he could probably do with a break.
The game itself was a shocker - Donny were poor until the game opened up for them - I mean was presented to them. We were worse. Just awful - no ideas, no presence up front, no width, laboured, leaky defence.
Lamerias will split opinion. Good to watch at times but zero end product. Ciftci reinforced my view from his first appearance - not for me. And the Edwards/ Bradley partnership isn't working.
Vague positives in the way that Fox introduced a modicum of control until the sending off and Ainsworth's adventurous cameo.
F
Frazer Lloyd-Davies
Guest
Punched whoever was marking him. Either it was a weak punch or he didn't connect right, but it looked like a punch from where I was - middle of Devonport.The Doctor":3aneeblz said:
mervyn":2wc16gt9 said:
I agree with this. Even in our fall through the leagues during the dark days I cant remember a shambles like that. Absolute joke really. The best part of the day were the chants from Demport.
Were on our way to lg2
Your nothing special we lose every week
Wheres all the money
At least we have a sense of humour