Death of a football club

[pilgrimage]

And the definition of a proper fan is........??
just because someone chooses not to go every week for whatever reason be it financial or work committments it does not make them any less of a fan.So what you are saying if you go every week shout abuse at players and spurt bile on this site it makes you a true fan. Absolute rubbish.

I have sat in Lyndhurst listening to abuse aimed at Williams , Hourihan etc. And i sometimes think would thise individuals dishing it out actually go and say it to their face
We are all entitled to our opinion but do it in the right way.
Some of us take kids to the football( future fans potentially). But what parent wants to subject there kids to some of the language aggression coming from "so called fans".

Worked out that I have attended over 1000 games but can't afford it now. Does this make me less of a fan?,

 

[briangreen]

And the definition of a proper fan is........??
just because someone chooses not to go every week for whatever reason be it financial or work committments it does not make them any less of a fan.So what you are saying if you go every week shout abuse at players and spurt bile on this site it makes you a true fan. Absolute rubbish.

I have sat in Lyndhurst listening to abuse aimed at Williams , Hourihan etc. And i sometimes think would thise individuals dishing it out actually go and say it to their face
We are all entitled to our opinion but do it in the right way.
Some of us take kids to the football( future fans potentially). But what parent wants to subject there kids to some of the language aggression coming from "so called fans".

Worked out that I have attended over 1000 games but can't afford it now. Does this make me less of a fan?,

Join the club

 

[briangreen]

Moving back to Plymouth after 10 years away. It really excites me as its a wonderful location and I have a lot of great friends and family here. It is also the home of what used to be my passion in life Plymouth Argyle football club.

I say used to as I still follow them on the radio and look out fur their results but I will not go to the games anymore because they depress me so much. Not for the reasons you might think either. Watching Argyle lose has never been an issue for me. I would go and support my team and know that they were out there wanting to win as much as the fans wanted them to win, and that the background staff were doing what they could to put them in a position to be successful.

I just couldn't stand the average Plymouth Argyle fan which is epitomised by this site. Grumpy, pessimistic, glass empty!, just at the game to vent their own frustrations of their own unhappy lives (my conclusion - rightly or wrongly).

Home Park and PASOTI is a depressing place to be and since I took myself away from both - it may be a coincidence - but my life has felt and been so much better.

A very negative post but just want to conclude by saying when you have a young child and it's trying to walk for the first time do you encourage, or do you criticise and vent your frustrations? If you want to watch your friends run a marathon would you encourage or would you criticise and vent your frustrations? If your child came home from school and were having difficulty with their home work, would you encourage or would you criticise and vent your frustrations?

Why would you encourage? Because you want them to succeed.

Every boo, every negative word, every criticism has an impact on this club. Maybe some people want the club to be as unsuccessful as their lives to add that consistency?

But for those that want a club that they can be proud of have a think before you write your next post on here or follow the charmless brigade in their torrents of misery on a Saturday afternoon.

Some people have lost what the meaning of 'support' means. If you do not support your club like you would support your child or support your friend when they are going through difficult times then maybe it's time to do just that.

Whilst I can appreciate many of your points in a very well articulated post I have two major observations;

1) You maintain the child encouragement comparison throughout ........ and it appears that as things have got too tough for you then you have not encouraged or supported .... you have walked away and not seen your commitment through

2) Your topic heading "Death of a Football Club" is way way out of line - this club is far from dead - recovering from a life saving operation with a period of rehab required but dead - never Argyle will never die. It may drop through leagues or even go out of business but the soul of PAFC will live forever.

Maybe I shall start rearing my ugly head once more when I'm back next month

Maybe if you'd paid to watch the past 5 years matches, not just listening to the radio & looking out for results you'd understand our "real fans" perspectives. It's easy to sit in an Ivory tower & not having paid hard earned money to endure the poo from the past 3 seasons.

I understand what you are saying and in one respect I don't have a leg to stand on with my attendance and the money that a lot of you guys are putting into the football club. But my thoughts whether they are listened to or not is that its a bit like saying that my car isn't working very well, so I took sledge hammer to it. There are a lot of people that are not helping this club with their comments and negative thoughts.

When it comes to these people I'm sure the club are happy that they are paying their money and attending but I would also stick my neck out to say that the players would rather that these players did not turn up. There is a big distinction between supporting the club and supporting the team.

I realise that at this moment in time it could be argued that I do neither. But this is not about me, its a bit bigger than that

It's pointless arguing with this 'happy' crowd, I know I've tried.
There will always be a certain element who believe that negativity is king, but there are many faithful members of the green army who see the bigger picture and remain faithful. A few years ago I stayed away for quite some time for the very reasons you mentioned. In the Demport end there was an old fellah who was constantly mocking the team (and we were high up in the championship table???), he would not let it go and even my dad who is a gentle man gave him a look that said sit down or I'll knock you down. This went on every time we were there and now my dad hardly ever goes, maybe twice a season and frankly my attendances have cut right down as well. This isn't solely the fault of performances, but moreso the constant moronic barracking around me.
Everyone has a right to express their opinion, but sometimes it goes way over the top. They use to say the geography of Plymouth stopped certain players from wanting to come here, are we absolutely certain that that is the whole truth of the matter? We have a lot of brilliant fans here in Plymouth and all over the country, but a certain few spoil it for the whole.

I've been to watch Argyle at over 60 grounds around the country and some of the abuse dished out by home fans has been terrible,far worse than anything that has taken place at Home Park.I've seen near riots at Lincoln and Chester against their boards of directors,the Derby crowd giving John Robertson so much abuse that he was in tears when he walked off the pitch,Walsall fans giving a player signed from non league sufficient hammer to ensure that he didn't play another league match,etc,etc.The reaction at Home park has been mild in comparison and to suggest that players haven't come to Argyle becuase of a bad crowd reputation is total nonsense.Players of sufficient calibre to attain five promotions have been signed in my time as a supporter,which would appear to refute your suggestion somewhat.If you want to see some real abuse directed at differing personnel at varying clubs,just look at these and ask yourself if anything like it has ever been seen at Home park;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvNilZEp ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ2t4aXzNdQ

Our fans are pussy cats in comparison,possibly too much so IMHO.The performance on saturday deserved every bit of criticism levelled at it and more-complacent,lethargic and unimaginative would be three of the more generous words to describe it and things need to improve quickly,otherwise an escalation of discontent will be justified and some would say overdue.

I was going to post something similar . I've been at away grounds and seen thge home fans pouring out bile at their own players and management like nothing I've ever seen at Home Park . We really are The Mild West .

I remember an away game of an evening at Cardiff ( the one where Michael foot was on the terraces with us . I've never ever seen or heard abuse like that aimed at players and manager alike .

I was at that Cardiff game - it nearly got rained off, awesome away following that night!

I don't understand the moaning when we play well, that was the reason for my reply! Even if it is mild it doesn't make it right does it?

Frankly I don't care what happens at other grounds, what is important for me is the atmosphere at home park and the effect it has on my family.
Now if some arrogant b'stard wants to stand behind me swearing his head off in a threatening manner, then I will be proactive in shutting him up! Is that clear enough for you.

 

[greenmarc]

Moving back to Plymouth after 10 years away. It really excites me as its a wonderful location and I have a lot of great friends and family here. It is also the home of what used to be my passion in life Plymouth Argyle football club.

I say used to as I still follow them on the radio and look out fur their results but I will not go to the games anymore because they depress me so much. Not for the reasons you might think either. Watching Argyle lose has never been an issue for me. I would go and support my team and know that they were out there wanting to win as much as the fans wanted them to win, and that the background staff were doing what they could to put them in a position to be successful.

I just couldn't stand the average Plymouth Argyle fan which is epitomised by this site. Grumpy, pessimistic, glass empty!, just at the game to vent their own frustrations of their own unhappy lives (my conclusion - rightly or wrongly).

Home Park and PASOTI is a depressing place to be and since I took myself away from both - it may be a coincidence - but my life has felt and been so much better.

A very negative post but just want to conclude by saying when you have a young child and it's trying to walk for the first time do you encourage, or do you criticise and vent your frustrations? If you want to watch your friends run a marathon would you encourage or would you criticise and vent your frustrations? If your child came home from school and were having difficulty with their home work, would you encourage or would you criticise and vent your frustrations?

Why would you encourage? Because you want them to succeed.

Every boo, every negative word, every criticism has an impact on this club. Maybe some people want the club to be as unsuccessful as their lives to add that consistency?

But for those that want a club that they can be proud of have a think before you write your next post on here or follow the charmless brigade in their torrents of misery on a Saturday afternoon.

Some people have lost what the meaning of 'support' means. If you do not support your club like you would support your child or support your friend when they are going through difficult times then maybe it's time to do just that.

What a load of tripe ....................and you have took yourself away from pasoti yet you start a new thread .

You then slag of the supporters who go week in week out and have seen 4 years of crap .

And its us fans that dont know the meaning of support who actually bother to go to the game

 

[Green_blooded_pilgrim]

Moving back to Plymouth after 10 years away. It really excites me as its a wonderful location and I have a lot of great friends and family here. It is also the home of what used to be my passion in life Plymouth Argyle football club.

I say used to as I still follow them on the radio and look out fur their results but I will not go to the games anymore because they depress me so much. Not for the reasons you might think either. Watching Argyle lose has never been an issue for me. I would go and support my team and know that they were out there wanting to win as much as the fans wanted them to win, and that the background staff were doing what they could to put them in a position to be successful.

I just couldn't stand the average Plymouth Argyle fan which is epitomised by this site. Grumpy, pessimistic, glass empty!, just at the game to vent their own frustrations of their own unhappy lives (my conclusion - rightly or wrongly).

Home Park and PASOTI is a depressing place to be and since I took myself away from both - it may be a coincidence - but my life has felt and been so much better.

A very negative post but just want to conclude by saying when you have a young child and it's trying to walk for the first time do you encourage, or do you criticise and vent your frustrations? If you want to watch your friends run a marathon would you encourage or would you criticise and vent your frustrations? If your child came home from school and were having difficulty with their home work, would you encourage or would you criticise and vent your frustrations?

Why would you encourage? Because you want them to succeed.

Every boo, every negative word, every criticism has an impact on this club. Maybe some people want the club to be as unsuccessful as their lives to add that consistency?

But for those that want a club that they can be proud of have a think before you write your next post on here or follow the charmless brigade in their torrents of misery on a Saturday afternoon.

Some people have lost what the meaning of 'support' means. If you do not support your club like you would support your child or support your friend when they are going through difficult times then maybe it's time to do just that.

What a load of tripe ....................and you have took yourself away from pasoti yet you start a new thread .

You then slag of the supporters who go week in week out and have seen 4 years of crap .

And its us fans that dont know the meaning of support who actually bother to go to the game

I think it's always going to hit a nerve when you realise that your 'support' has merely helped the opposition by making our players heads go down and making them nervous enough to put them off there game.

But hopefully when the dust has settled, rather than paying your money to a grateful club and having a team (well the one in green anyway), that wished that you hadn't turned up, you'll start to have a positive influence on what happens on the pitch.

 

[Greenskin]

Moving back to Plymouth after 10 years away. It really excites me as its a wonderful location and I have a lot of great friends and family here. It is also the home of what used to be my passion in life Plymouth Argyle football club.

I say used to as I still follow them on the radio and look out fur their results but I will not go to the games anymore because they depress me so much. Not for the reasons you might think either. Watching Argyle lose has never been an issue for me. I would go and support my team and know that they were out there wanting to win as much as the fans wanted them to win, and that the background staff were doing what they could to put them in a position to be successful.

I just couldn't stand the average Plymouth Argyle fan which is epitomised by this site. Grumpy, pessimistic, glass empty!, just at the game to vent their own frustrations of their own unhappy lives (my conclusion - rightly or wrongly).

Home Park and PASOTI is a depressing place to be and since I took myself away from both - it may be a coincidence - but my life has felt and been so much better.

A very negative post but just want to conclude by saying when you have a young child and it's trying to walk for the first time do you encourage, or do you criticise and vent your frustrations? If you want to watch your friends run a marathon would you encourage or would you criticise and vent your frustrations? If your child came home from school and were having difficulty with their home work, would you encourage or would you criticise and vent your frustrations?

Why would you encourage? Because you want them to succeed.

Every boo, every negative word, every criticism has an impact on this club. Maybe some people want the club to be as unsuccessful as their lives to add that consistency?

But for those that want a club that they can be proud of have a think before you write your next post on here or follow the charmless brigade in their torrents of misery on a Saturday afternoon.

Some people have lost what the meaning of 'support' means. If you do not support your club like you would support your child or support your friend when they are going through difficult times then maybe it's time to do just that.

Whilst I can appreciate many of your points in a very well articulated post I have two major observations;

1) You maintain the child encouragement comparison throughout ........ and it appears that as things have got too tough for you then you have not encouraged or supported .... you have walked away and not seen your commitment through

2) Your topic heading "Death of a Football Club" is way way out of line - this club is far from dead - recovering from a life saving operation with a period of rehab required but dead - never Argyle will never die. It may drop through leagues or even go out of business but the soul of PAFC will live forever.

Maybe I shall start rearing my ugly head once more when I'm back next month

Maybe if you'd paid to watch the past 5 years matches, not just listening to the radio & looking out for results you'd understand our "real fans" perspectives. It's easy to sit in an Ivory tower & not having paid hard earned money to endure the poo from the past 3 seasons.

I understand what you are saying and in one respect I don't have a leg to stand on with my attendance and the money that a lot of you guys are putting into the football club. But my thoughts whether they are listened to or not is that its a bit like saying that my car isn't working very well, so I took sledge hammer to it. There are a lot of people that are not helping this club with their comments and negative thoughts.

When it comes to these people I'm sure the club are happy that they are paying their money and attending but I would also stick my neck out to say that the players would rather that these players did not turn up. There is a big distinction between supporting the club and supporting the team.

I realise that at this moment in time it could be argued that I do neither. But this is not about me, its a bit bigger than that

It's pointless arguing with this 'happy' crowd, I know I've tried.
There will always be a certain element who believe that negativity is king, but there are many faithful members of the green army who see the bigger picture and remain faithful. A few years ago I stayed away for quite some time for the very reasons you mentioned. In the Demport end there was an old fellah who was constantly mocking the team (and we were high up in the championship table???), he would not let it go and even my dad who is a gentle man gave him a look that said sit down or I'll knock you down. This went on every time we were there and now my dad hardly ever goes, maybe twice a season and frankly my attendances have cut right down as well. This isn't solely the fault of performances, but moreso the constant moronic barracking around me.
Everyone has a right to express their opinion, but sometimes it goes way over the top. They use to say the geography of Plymouth stopped certain players from wanting to come here, are we absolutely certain that that is the whole truth of the matter? We have a lot of brilliant fans here in Plymouth and all over the country, but a certain few spoil it for the whole.

I've been to watch Argyle at over 60 grounds around the country and some of the abuse dished out by home fans has been terrible,far worse than anything that has taken place at Home Park.I've seen near riots at Lincoln and Chester against their boards of directors,the Derby crowd giving John Robertson so much abuse that he was in tears when he walked off the pitch,Walsall fans giving a player signed from non league sufficient hammer to ensure that he didn't play another league match,etc,etc.The reaction at Home park has been mild in comparison and to suggest that players haven't come to Argyle becuase of a bad crowd reputation is total nonsense.Players of sufficient calibre to attain five promotions have been signed in my time as a supporter,which would appear to refute your suggestion somewhat.If you want to see some real abuse directed at differing personnel at varying clubs,just look at these and ask yourself if anything like it has ever been seen at Home park;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvNilZEp ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ2t4aXzNdQ

Our fans are pussy cats in comparison,possibly too much so IMHO.The performance on saturday deserved every bit of criticism levelled at it and more-complacent,lethargic and unimaginative would be three of the more generous words to describe it and things need to improve quickly,otherwise an escalation of discontent will be justified and some would say overdue.

I was going to post something similar . I've been at away grounds and seen thge home fans pouring out bile at their own players and management like nothing I've ever seen at Home Park . We really are The Mild West .

I remember an away game of an evening at Cardiff ( the one where Michael foot was on the terraces with us . I've never ever seen or heard abuse like that aimed at players and manager alike .

I was at that Cardiff game - it nearly got rained off, awesome away following that night!

I don't understand the moaning when we play well, that was the reason for my reply! Even if it is mild it doesn't make it right does it?

Frankly I don't care what happens at other grounds, what is important for me is the atmosphere at home park and the effect it has on my family.
Now if some arrogant b'stard wants to stand behind me swearing his head off in a threatening manner, then I will be proactive in shutting him up! Is that clear enough for you.

If you don't care about what happens at other grounds and therefore have no compartitor to judge the conditions that possible new signings have been previously operating under,then maybe it would be a sound idea to stop putting forward theories about players not coming to Argyle because of a bad crowd reaction.

 

[ejh]

The bit which loses me with the boo boys' philosophy is at what point as Carl Fletcher and his squad of players become held responsible for financial mismanagement 3 yrs ago, the 10 pt deduction, the relegation to League 2 and having to rebuild the team from scratch? All this 'we've had to put up with this tripe for years' nonsense. Yes, but none of that was anyone on the pitch's fault. If you want to 'send a message to Fletcher', write him a letter, or better still, confront him face to face after the game. Same with Brent. Otherwise please bear in mind you are booing players who stood by this club in its hour of need, criticising non-league players trying to make the difficult step up (PCH and Griffiths), and young lads trying their hardest being asked to do incredibly demanding duties (Young and Hourihane). As well as the fact that you are contributing nothing except heaping more pressure on, making them play with their heads down and making their 90 mins twice as difficult.

 

[argobenz]

ALL clubs have their negative element...I never forget a trip to Villa v Spurs in 1995 with a spurs supporting mate.. over 4000 away fans there on a run of something like 7 wins...the night Bosnich clattered Kilnsmann and Cantona did his kung fu kick thing, anyway, the moaning and criticism aimed at the team by the tottenham "faithful" during the game was beyond belief. I think argyle fans have just had enough, they've been through 3 years where 6-7 years of steady progress has been totally undone and there appears to be no reason to be optimistic at all just now. In these circumstances the booing is totally understandable...

Argyle have their own share of what i call "606 fans".... the reactionary, "sack the manager after every defeat" breed, but Im afraid thats modern life for you. We live in an instant gratification age and people are generally very impatient these days...argyle fans on the whole have I think been very loyal this past 3 years......

Bit of a contradiction?

 

[Saracen10]

a friend of mine up the gym i go too was saying last season,every time i spoke to him, "he's got to go,he will not get players in,he is messing about with the team".who was he talking about?carl fletcher? no. arsenne wenger! i kid you not.no fan is any different to any other.

Steve, I knew if I stayed on the site long enough I would eventually find one of your posts that I agree with ---- time and date duly noted :lol:

......... please reassure me that it really is you Steve and that your computer hasn't been hacked ! or has my computer deleted "Fletcher Out" from your post ?

 

[Greenblooded1]

I think argyle fans have just had enough, they've been through 3 years where 6-7 years of steady progress has been totally undone and there appears to be no reason to be optimistic at all just now. In these circumstances the booing is totally understandable.

Nail, Head, Hit.

 

[TotaleGreen]

Quite agree with GBP watching Argyle has become a depressing experience on and off the pitch. I've spent the last 4-5 seasons moving seats to try and avoid the moaners. Still looking. I think the only place left for me now is Block 3 with the Ultra's, whose unbridled optimism and constant support is one of the few good things to have happened at HP in recent times.

 

[argobenz]

Quite agree with GBP watching Argyle has become a depressing experience on and off the pitch. I've spent the last 4-5 seasons moving seats to try and avoid the moaners. Still looking. I think the only place left for me now is Block 3 with the Ultra's, whose unbridled optimism and constant support is one of the few good things to have happened at HP in recent times.

But at least the football has been good :yawn: