dunlop":3phvm7to said:
XIsle and esmer are two condescending idiots who refuse to believe concrete evidence that the Liverpool fans were not to blame for the Hilisborough tragedy.
Maybe if you had accurately summarised my view, yiu would have concluded differently. The "concrete evidence" I am bringing to my opinion is what I saw with my own eyes.
As well as the general behaviour of a significant minority of fans at all games, big cup games on terraces would've brought with it the same behaviour as I witnesses at ALL England games. Whilst fighting through large scrums (you can't call them queues) to get in with my ticket I witnessed (and this is no exaggeration) hundreds of ticketless fans climbing up, or being pulled up by their mates, the outside of the staircase towers to the sides of the gates.
Tickets meant nothing on terraces, if you could get in by fair means or foul it was considered fair game. The authorities just watched, they did nothing. It is inconceivable fans didn't turn up to do the same at Hillsborough.Totally inconceivable.
It should be obvious, although apparently it's not :roll:, that I don't level this at the 96, nor the vast majority of the crowd as a whole that day. They were, like I would have been back then if I hadn't been so lucky, a law abiding, sober, ticket holding fan, just going to to a game and being let down by the authorities.
Someone last night on the TV referred to the drunken, late arriving and ticketless fans as "mythical". We're they heck as like. They would've been there all right and yes THEIR behaviour contributed TOGETHER with all the other failures that also very definitely happened.
Why have they not been identified? Would YOU come forward and admit you contributed to the biggest sporting disaster the country has ever seen?, in a city consumed by grief wanting answers? No, you wouldn't. But dotted around Liverpool for 27 years now have lived a significant number of individuals who know full well what they did and what it CONTRIBUTED to. It used to be a badge of honour to get in the ground 'on the wag', you think it stopped that day? No way, it stopped because of that day.
Said i'd stay out of this discussion having made my point yesterday but I can't sit by and watch what I posted get misrepresented and twisted. I do NOT blame the fans as a collective, but the specific fans I am referring to would have been there and their numbers would have contributed in some form to what happened.
Now carry on the name calling and finger pointing if you like, it has no effect on me. But don't put words in my name that I did not say and would not agree with.