Jimmy Spencer

[esmer]

According to Bradley Spencer blocked Bradley's marker which set him up for his goal and Spencer was instrumental in setting up the only other two chances we had in the match for Carey and Jervis. Considering we were pretty non-existent as an attacking force throughout the game that's not too shabby.

 

[Andy Tall]

I see mention of Steve Adams in this thread - don't rate him either.

First name on Sturrock's teamsheet. That's a decent enough recommendation for me.

 

[Stiffler]

Spencer set up both Carey and Jervis chances with classy play on sunday only for both to mess them up. He isnt the answer to us in league one as a lone striker but that isnt why why we signed him was it ?

 

[Knibbsworth]

Don't get Spencer at all. Not seen anything. BUT Adams does and we're second so I'll shut up.

If you don't see anything in Spencer, consider that Derek Adams plays a system where:
A) We concede possession, sometimes as much as 75% to the opposition.
B) Our defence is deep, although organised.
C) The midfielders and widemen sit deep trying to restrict the spaces to run at the back four.
D) The lone striker spends considerable periods of the match VERY isolated. As in, no other Argyle player is even in the same postcode.
E) When Argyle overturn possession, our panicked forward punts are not usually of the highest quality.

Once you analyse all of the above, Derek Adams needs a striker who
A) Stays focused when he's getting hardly any of the ball. Sometimes only a handful of touches per half (and that's not his fault).
B) Can get the ball under control and shield it for five seconds or more while he's being swarmed until he gets an outlet.
C) Can deal with scraggy half volleyed punts just aimed at getting over the halfway line to take pressure off the back four, and turn it into something useful.
D) Therefore we need a striker with great touch, great chest, great head, who can hold up the ball for 5-10 seconds without help, who can pass instinctively into the channels, with clever movement, who can occupy a back four, and work alone, and deal with pretty mediocre service with the minimum of fuss.
E) And we need a play who is prepared to do this poo job, knowing they are unlikely to even get a shot on goal, won't score many goals and have moronic fans on his back for his lack of end product.


As you say the table justifies Derek Adams's tactics, and justifies DA's use of Spencer in this way, but the supporters need to understand the unglamorous role being asked of Spencer, and how not many strikers in the division would be capable of it.

Also it is not fair to judge Spencer v Trigger. Trigger had exceptional target man quality at this level, that wasn't appreciated at West Brom, so they let him return to his boyhood club for peanuts. Sturrock really landed on his feet having a player of that quality in League One, never mind League Two. Trigger proved he was Championship quality when he played in the division and kept Argyle up for several seasons. So it's unfair in my opinion to whinge that Spencer doesn't have the quality a striker that was playing two divisions above, even when he was slowing, carrying weight, and well into his thirties.

 

[Steve Evans]

Don't get Spencer at all. Not seen anything. BUT Adams does and we're second so I'll shut up.

If you don't see anything in Spencer, consider that Derek Adams plays a system where:
A) We concede possession, sometimes as much as 75% to the opposition.
B) Our defence is deep, although organised.
C) The midfielders and widemen sit deep trying to restrict the spaces to run at the back four.
D) The lone striker spends considerable periods of the match VERY isolated. As in, no other Argyle player is even in the same postcode.
E) When Argyle overturn possession, our panicked forward punts are not usually of the highest quality.

Once you analyse all of the above, Derek Adams needs a striker who
A) Stays focused when he's getting hardly any of the ball. Sometimes only a handful of touches per half (and that's not his fault).
B) Can get the ball under control and shield it for five seconds or more while he's being swarmed until he gets an outlet.
C) Can deal with scraggy half volleyed punts just aimed at getting over the halfway line to take pressure off the back four, and turn it into something useful.
D) Therefore we need a striker with great touch, great chest, great head, who can hold up the ball for 5-10 seconds without help, who can pass instinctively into the channels, with clever movement, who can occupy a back four, and work alone, and deal with pretty mediocre service with the minimum of fuss.
E) And we need a play who is prepared to do this sh1te job, knowing they are unlikely to even get a shot on goal, won't score many goals and have moronic fans on his back for his lack of end product.


As you say the table justifies Derek Adams's tactics, and justifies DA's use of Spencer in this way, but the supporters need to understand the unglamorous role being asked of Spencer, and how not many strikers in the division would be capable of it.

Also it is not fair to judge Spencer v Trigger. Trigger had exceptional target man quality at this level, that wasn't appreciated at West Brom, so they let him return to his boyhood club for peanuts. Sturrock really landed on his feet having a player of that quality in League One, never mind League Two. Trigger proved he was Championship quality when he played in the division and kept Argyle up for several seasons. So it's unfair in my opinion to whinge that Spencer doesn't have the quality a striker that was playing two divisions above, even when he was slowing, carrying weight, and well into his thirties.

great post. :clap:

 

[Voice of Reason]

Knibbs i disagreed with you strongly the other day regarding Carey/Jervis, but this is spot on.

Does make me laugh what armchair supporters think that isolated centre forwards should be doing when a football travelling at 50mph arrives 7 foot in the air and their nearest team mate is 40+ yards away. If you asked Spencer he'd probably love to play two upfront, two out and out wingers and crosses coming into the box all day long. But in order for the TEAM to prosper, who is willing to forgo personal gain and chase no end of hopeless and aimless punts up field. As rightly pointed out, he didn't have a great game at Donny but was still involved in creating two very good opportunities.

As a side note, whoever mentioned Steve Adams being poor, you are off your mind, he was excellent for us, think Songo'o but with balance and ability to do the simple things well. He didn't leave Argyle for Torquay, he left for Sheff Weds, but for a pretty bad injury would have played Championship football for a good few seasons. Instead of the two injury ravaged years he spent there.

 

[Larry David]

Knibbs i disagreed with you strongly the other day regarding Carey/Jervis, but this is spot on.

Does make me laugh what armchair supporters think that isolated centre forwards should be doing when a football travelling at 50mph arrives 7 foot in the air and their nearest team mate is 40+ yards away. If you asked Spencer he'd probably love to play two upfront, two out and out wingers and crosses coming into the box all day long. But in order for the TEAM to prosper, who is willing to forgo personal gain and chase no end of hopeless and aimless punts up field. As rightly pointed out, he didn't have a great game at Donny but was still involved in creating two very good opportunities.

As a side note, whoever mentioned Steve Adams being poor, you are off your mind, he was excellent for us, think Songo'o but with balance and ability to do the simple things well. He didn't leave Argyle for Torquay, he left for Sheff Weds, but for a pretty bad injury would have played Championship football for a good few seasons. Instead of the two injury ravaged years he spent there.

I know football is a game where people hold different opinions but I sometimes believe some wilfully ignore the bleeding obvious!

The system we play demands a Centre Forward who can do all of the above and Spencer and Taylor are the only two we have that are capable of doing it properly. At the moment Jimmy is in possession of the shirt and rightfully is starting games as he he is doing the job well.

Imagine a scenario whereby a player is doing all that is asked of him and yet the manager refuses to pick him, what good would that do for his confidence and what message would that send to any player not currently in the starting line up?

Ryan Taylor will get his chance and if he takes it Jimmy will have to wait his turn again. It's great to have competition for places within the squad and no player wants to miss a game knowing it may take a while to get back in. Good manager Derek Adams.

 

[Frank Butcher]

Knibbs i disagreed with you strongly the other day regarding Carey/Jervis, but this is spot on.

Does make me laugh what armchair supporters think that isolated centre forwards should be doing when a football travelling at 50mph arrives 7 foot in the air and their nearest team mate is 40+ yards away. If you asked Spencer he'd probably love to play two upfront, two out and out wingers and crosses coming into the box all day long. But in order for the TEAM to prosper, who is willing to forgo personal gain and chase no end of hopeless and aimless punts up field. As rightly pointed out, he didn't have a great game at Donny but was still involved in creating two very good opportunities.

As a side note, whoever mentioned Steve Adams being poor, you are off your mind, he was excellent for us, think Songo'o but with balance and ability to do the simple things well. He didn't leave Argyle for Torquay, he left for Sheff Weds, but for a pretty bad injury would have played Championship football for a good few seasons. Instead of the two injury ravaged years he spent there.

I usually like your posts, but why do people use this [highlighted] phrase in a dismissive way when trying to wrench the moral high ground. Aren't we all armchair supporters with differing opinions ?

In terms of the content, I'd be surprised if anyone misunderstands the thankless task that being a lone striker is - especially away from home. But that sort of demands someone who has more strength and agility than JS displays (in my opinion you understand ...).

Oh, and I agree about Steve Adams.

 

[Voice of Reason]

Maybe not the correct term.

We have all played football, whether it be in the playground, youth level, mens football (varying levels), with our dads or children - we will have all scored with 20 yarders, we will all have made one pass that would make Cruyff jealous, we'll have all made a goal saving tackle. So we all know a bit, can all picture being on the pitch Saturday afternoon wearing green and with our greenest of tints, think we can see what its like to be a professional footballer. But how many people who comment on Spencer have any idea of the role?

How many people have played an a 11 a side game, with only one upfront and you being that one. The novel idea of that you are the only player in the team who spends more time facing your own goal than the oppositions. I therefore think numerous comments are made very naively about what the role entails.

So maybe dismissive, but it drives me insane when people influenced by years of watching Premier league, La liga or worse still playing Fifa, expect a League 2 centre forward to be beating defenders, winning every header, bursting through tackles and have electrifying pace.

His work is thoroughly selfless and no he will never be a world beater, he will never be in anyone's all time greatest Argyle X1, but he adds to the collective team through work-rate and suits the style Adams wants.

Even in success some people still find someone to pick fault in, it was Donaldson last month, Garita before that, Miller in January i think etc.

 

[Nobby]

There seems to be a thinly veiled "If you don't understand Spencer, you don't understand Football" attitude coming from the people defending his corner.

I mean, we're talking about an "intelligent centre forward" who has directly contributed to three goals in an entire football season. That's one less than Threlkeld, a full back, and the same as Bulvitis, a fourth choice centre back. Our system, particularly away from home, is very similar to the one we deployed last year. That didn't prevent Ryan Brunt or Jamille Matt from scoring goals and making match winning contributions.

As i've said on numerous occasions, he is doing a thankless task and he is isolated. However that's no excuse for poor control or poor hold up play, which there is still too much of for someone who is apparently in the team because he does those things well. After 20+ games in this role, he should've be doing more and having more of a direct contribution. At the moment he is only producing the goods in moments and for a team second in the division, that isn't enough.

A striker's job over the season is first and foremost scoring goals. Two in a season frankly isn't enough of a contribution. We're on the front foot in home games often enough that he could be getting into more dangerous areas and at least looking like a threat. Sadly, he doesn't and he's scoring at a slower rate than Warren Feeney, Rhys Griffiths & Nick Chadwick. Imagine if one of them was playing like Spencer is this year, would there still be such a vociferous defence of him? (I'm well aware he's a better player).

As for "our record is better when he plays". The same could be said for Bulvitis over Bradley, but it doesn't mean Bulvitis is better.

Spencer is an average League Two footballer and there is nothing wrong about wanting better.

 

[ZZZZMarker12]

Having Spencer as the lone striker just makes it feel as we've only 10 players on the pitch. He has no pace, doesn't run the channels, can't win headers and doesn't look threatening whatsoever. His hold up play is decent if you pass to his feet but that's about it. Taylor is a very good player at this level and I think he should be starting every week for us when fit.

 

[Voice of Reason]

I agree Taylor over Spencer as a player for me.

But not sure why we have to be sticking the knife into a guy selflessly busting a gut for the team every time he is selected. The fact that Adams is currently selecting him over Taylor is an indication of what he feels he brings to the team.

 

[arrythewurzel]

thank goodness for a bit of reality from Nobby and GreenBin, theres plenty of good analysis on this post about what we require from a lone striker and its blindingly obvious to most people that jimmy doesn't have those qualities, he cant win balls, his first touch is poor, and hold-up play and passing average at best, if anyone watched the Donny game and cant see that then a trip to specsavers is required. I just don't get the argument that theres some mysterious quality that only the chosen few football aficionados can see while stroking their bearded chins, its like the emperors new clothes, as I said hes like steve maclean, he tries hard but in this role hes not very good

Those of us who are fans of Jimmy would argue its blindingly obvious he does have those qualities. It's all about opinions. I imagine DA is in our camp as he ain't afraid to drop people to the bench where they're not performing.

Haven't seen enough of Taylor to form an opinion but I wish he'd stop the simulation. Throws himself to the floor as if shot sometimes. Highly irritating.

 

[Balham Green]

thank goodness for a bit of reality from Nobby and GreenBin, theres plenty of good analysis on this post about what we require from a lone striker and its blindingly obvious to most people that jimmy doesn't have those qualities, he cant win balls, his first touch is poor, and hold-up play and passing average at best, if anyone watched the Donny game and cant see that then a trip to specsavers is required. I just don't get the argument that theres some mysterious quality that only the chosen few football aficionados can see while stroking their bearded chins, its like the emperors new clothes, as I said hes like steve maclean, he tries hard but in this role hes not very good

So because he struggled against Doncaster, the best team in the League, proves lt does it? One game. Did you see him at Crewe? or Wycombe? I suspect not. I prefer Taylor, Spencer is not the greatest, but he has definitely gone up in my estimation. He has a thankless task. As for Frank saying its Adam's best signing though, well thats just daft!

 

[Balham Green]

thank goodness for a bit of reality from Nobby and GreenBin, theres plenty of good analysis on this post about what we require from a lone striker and its blindingly obvious to most people that jimmy doesn't have those qualities, he cant win balls, his first touch is poor, and hold-up play and passing average at best, if anyone watched the Donny game and cant see that then a trip to specsavers is required. I just don't get the argument that theres some mysterious quality that only the chosen few football aficionados can see while stroking their bearded chins, its like the emperors new clothes, as I said hes like steve maclean, he tries hard but in this role hes not very good

Those of us who are fans of Jimmy would argue its blindingly obvious he does have those qualities. It's all about opinions. I imagine DA is in our camp as he ain't afraid to drop people to the bench.

Haven't seen enough of Taylor to form an opinion but I wish he'd stop the simulation. Throws himself to the floor as if shot sometimes. Highly irritating.

Its called professionalism. He will get fouled all the time.A lot of the time refs won't see it so he makes sure he gets his due rewards.