New Grandstand - 2 day public consultation

[GreenArmy1984]

The fans forum is live on Facebook I believe

Yes I heard that too over the tannoy

Live on Plymouth Argyle Facebook Page

 

[HC Green]

What does the hotel and ice rink bring to the football club ? Nothing.
Its just a separate money making exercise from Brent.

I support the grandstand as an individual proposal. But I don't want to see unncessary buildings on a public park which is valued for its opennesses and lack of development.

I'd like to see the Council issue a split decision here- permission for the grandstand but not for the hotel or ice rink. They can go somewhere else in the city- they don't need to be in Central park.

The buildings proposed aren't on a public park, they are on private land that is already being used, the term used being brownfield sites.

Have you not noticed that the Life Centre, the Park and Ride Car Parks and Home Park are in Central Park?

 

[davie nine]

I did wonder how long before the "but he saved us" line would be trotted out. :clap: :scarf:

How come you never talk about football and yet when James Brent is mentioned you can't stop posting!

I've explained many many times my reasons for being a Brent sceptic.

With these latest commercial plans that benefit nobody at all financially other than Mr and Mrs Brent, James is doing a perfect job of showing just why I was sceptical of his motives at the outset.

But primarily Pasoti is a football website so if you only use it to criticise James Brent then it looks like a personal issue and you become a one trick pony and any good points or concerns you raise will be missed or overlooked because it's just you moaning about JB again.

You must have missed my thoughts on the relative merits of ours and Exeters youth policies regarding Grimes Watkins etc. Hey ho.

You are obviously aware of the frustration that your opinions about James Brent cause to many of us.
I am intrigued as to what 3 qualities and attributes, other than a PAFC supporting multi billionaire, you would like to see in your ideal professional football club owner?

 

[The Grumpy Loyal]

I did wonder how long before the "but he saved us" line would be trotted out. :clap: :scarf:

How come you never talk about football and yet when James Brent is mentioned you can't stop posting!

I've explained many many times my reasons for being a Brent sceptic.

With these latest commercial plans that benefit nobody at all financially other than Mr and Mrs Brent, James is doing a perfect job of showing just why I was sceptical of his motives at the outset.

But primarily Pasoti is a football website so if you only use it to criticise James Brent then it looks like a personal issue and you become a one trick pony and any good points or concerns you raise will be missed or overlooked because it's just you moaning about JB again.

You must have missed my thoughts on the relative merits of ours and Exeters youth policies regarding Grimes Watkins etc. Hey ho.

You are obviously aware of the frustration that your opinions about James Brent cause to many of us.
I am intrigued as to what 3 qualities and attributes, other than a PAFC supporting multi billionaire, you would like to see in your ideal professional football club owner?

Three qualities and attributes? I can shorten and sum up in one sentence really. I'd like someone who, simply and unequivocally puts the long term interests of PAFC over and above ANY personal interest.

Brent's original farcical HHP plan, in it's entirety, put an overwhelmingly alarming priority on personal gain over the interests of the club and would have almost literally concreted over any future realistic expansion possibilities for Home Park. And I don't really give a hoot what anyone says - that is the ONLY reason why somebody like him with his background and zero footballing interest would ever get involved in the first place. Massive alarm bells rang for me at the time.

Now thankfully that never materialised, and this latest private venture shouldn't be as damaging geographically and financially as far as the club is concerned. But there are still aspects that raise more than an eyebrow, and not just concerning PAFC. The timing of the drawings, appearing on the website at literally the 11th hour prior to a public showing. The intention to build a gym right next door in competition to the Life Centre. The intention to build a cafe when he knows the FOCP are building one in the park. Morally, why would you do that?

The Grandstand refurb, and everything else on the planning application, are two separate ventures. Let's be clear about that. The latter being a totally private venture by Brent. Presenting them together in the media as well as the shiny pictures of some fantasy Home Park with corners filled in, I'm sure will 'wow' many. But that is a propaganda view, whatever way you try and dress it up.

Brent may well now get what he came in for in the first place - a private development in the Central Park area that leads (via the ice rink build) to a far bigger potential development at Millbay. I get it from his point of view, absolutely. He could very well be sitting pretty in 10 years time. Then again, his track record of actually developing anything at all is pretty woeful with HHP, Oldway Mansion, Civic Centre etc etc.

I'm actually a lot more relaxed now Hallett is in the picture. They are a different animal. The most simplistic example would be Brent's unwillingness to finance the refurb....yet there is no problem financing a PRIVATE hotel/leisure venture. Which brings me back around to Davies original question. Brent does what is good for Brent as an overwhelming priority regardless of any detrimental effects. I've seen it from Day 1. This latest episode simply strengthens that view.

The inevitable sellout to Hallett can't come quick enough.

 

[davie nine]

That is a very succinct and reasoned response,TGL. I do not agree with your opinion about James Brent, who I believe has demonstrated his commitment to PAFC, but I do appreciate that you have taken the time to respond.

Can I assume, from your response, that Simon Hallett could have the 3 qualities that you would like to see in your ideal professional football club owner?

If so, I would remind you that JB accepted SH onto the Board, having apparently rejected other potential offers to join, and he also instigated and implemented the process that identified Derek Adams as our manager.

 

[The Grumpy Loyal]

That is a very succinct and reasoned response,TGL. I do not agree with your opinion about James Brent, who I believe has demonstrated his commitment to PAFC, but I do appreciate that you have taken the time to respond.

Can I assume, from your response, that Simon Hallett could have the 3 qualities that you would like to see in your ideal professional football club owner?

If so, I would remind you that JB accepted SH onto the Board, having apparently rejected other potential offers to join, and he also instigated and implemented the process that identified Derek Adams as our manager.

Oh I've said in the past there are three definitive actions that Brent and the Board have got very right...the appointment of Sheridan, then Adams, along with Halletts invitation onto the Board. No doubt about that.

 

[IJN]

Brent's unwillingness to finance the refurb....yet there is no problem financing a PRIVATE hotel/leisure venture.

:facepalm:

I've seen this from a few people now, so perhaps it's something that has to be answered. As it Grumpy 'Loyal' I will attempt to do it as sarcastically and patronising as possible. For others that don't operate in a business environment I apologise in advance.

JB has stated many, many times that he will not gamble any of us of his family's money in a football club. I've now doubt he has spent more on Argyle than anyone on here, possibly collectively if truth be know, but it's no secret he's not a short term, local business man that's funding PAFC.

The fact that HE (important once again to stress that) cannot fund any of the refurb should therefore not surprise anyone, even the clique (a few on here, many on ATD and that lamentable Free Chat page) can surely understand the simplicity of that logic and statement.

Now then, for the viciously tongued keyboard type, of which Grumpy Loyal is a somewhat sad and typical example, it should be spelled out that attempting to find funding for anything to do with a football club is like trying to extract blood from a stone.

However (here's the important bit) if you can go to a bank, but probably more like venture capitalists and show a business plan with projected returns v running costs etc (based on data from other similar businesses) there's every chance of achieving funding for the aforementioned project.

Now go back to the football club refurb, what does he do? "Here we are, here's my figures, based on................." Crystal Palace, PAFC #1, Hereford, Leicester, Portsmouth, Leeds, Wrexham, Charlton, Tranmere, Northampton, Barnet, Port Vale, Exeter City etc etc etc. Hell yeah the Venture Capitalists would jump at the chance wouldn't they?? :crazy:

Now we have Jane and Simon willing to pump the money into PAFC is purely serendipitous. Two Argyle fans that have the money and want to help the club in any way they can. Both have told me and many others that they made the decision after attending a Senior Greens meeting and seeing what lovely people support our football club. That's a great story, and credit to both of them for giving us a chance of seeing a decent facility at Home Park.

Back to JB, I travel to an awful lot of matches with him, we chat obviously and he is as green as I am, I know what he likes and dislikes in football, I know why joy he gets from helping certain Argyle fans if they need help or help in any way. SO some snarkey keyboard warrior type that gives him gyp or attempts to portray a scheming industrial tycoon type figure is really way off the mark. There are about thirty people that do this on the net, we've all seen their comments, whether it be on FB (being fed by those that never shoot bullets but load them via PM's and E mails) ATD or even on here. They've done it from day one, and once again, it does seem as if these people have their own agenda. They seem to have dropper the 'Old Etonian' and 'Ex Banker' comments these days but that was their original mantra and truth be known it is the source of their antagonism towards the Chairman.

Rant over with, I'm going to the Fans Forum today, let's see if there's any such allegations made on a face to face basis. I attend most and haven't yet seen any.

It's good to debate and as I've said many times before the fact that "Grumpy Loyal" posts on here is living proof that this site does allow freedom of debate, however it should always be remembered that because people repeat and repeat the same old argument, time and time again, doesn't make it true.

Hope to see some Pasoti'ites at the Fans Forum at 1400. I'd love to see "Grumpy Loyal' but I know I won't. His odus operandi is like the others, dark corners, whispers, lies then repeat ad nauseam.

 

[The Grumpy Loyal]

Brent's unwillingness to finance the refurb....yet there is no problem financing a PRIVATE hotel/leisure venture.

:facepalm:

I've seen this from a few people now, so perhaps it's something that has to be answered. As it Grumpy 'Loyal' I will attempt to do it as sarcastically and patronising as possible. For others that don't operate in a business environment I apologise in advance.

JB has stated many, many times that he will not gamble any of us of his family's money in a football club. I've now doubt he has spent more on Argyle than anyone on here, possibly collectively if truth be know, but it's no secret he's not a short term, local business man that's funding PAFC.

The fact that HE (important once again to stress that) cannot fund any of the refurb should therefore not surprise anyone, even the clique (a few on here, many on ATD and that lamentable Free Chat page) can surely understand the simplicity of that logic and statement.

Now then, for the viciously tongued keyboard type, of which Grumpy Loyal is a somewhat sad and typical example, it should be spelled out that attempting to find funding for anything to do with a football club is like trying to extract blood from a stone.

However (here's the important bit) if you can go to a bank, but probably more like venture capitalists and show a business plan with projected returns v running costs etc (based on data from other similar businesses) there's every chance of achieving funding for the aforementioned project.

Now go back to the football club refurb, what does he do? "Here we are, here's my figures, based on................." Crystal Palace, PAFC #1, Hereford, Leicester, Portsmouth, Leeds, Wrexham, Charlton, Tranmere, Northampton, Barnet, Port Vale, Exeter City etc etc etc. Hell yeah the Venture Capitalists would jump at the chance wouldn't they?? :crazy:

Now we have Jane and Simon willing to pump the money into PAFC is purely serendipitous. Two Argyle fans that have the money and want to help the club in any way they can. Both have told me and many others that they made the decision after attending a Senior Greens meeting and seeing what lovely people support our football club. That's a great story, and credit to both of them for giving us a chance of seeing a decent facility at Home Park.

Back to JB, I travel to an awful lot of matches with him, we chat obviously and he is as green as I am, I know what he likes and dislikes in football, I know why joy he gets from helping certain Argyle fans if they need help or help in any way. SO some snarkey keyboard warrior type that gives him gyp or attempts to portray a scheming industrial tycoon type figure is really way off the mark. There are about thirty people that do this on the net, we've all seen their comments, whether it be on FB (being fed by those that never shoot bullets but load them via PM's and E mails) ATD or even on here. They've done it from day one, and once again, it does seem as if these people have their own agenda. They seem to have dropper the 'Old Etonian' and 'Ex Banker' comments these days but that was their original mantra and truth be known it is the source of their antagonism towards the Chairman.

Rant over with, I'm going to the Fans Forum today, let's see if there's any such allegations made on a face to face basis. I attend most and haven't yet seen any.

It's good to debate and as I've said many times before the fact that "Grumpy Loyal" posts on here is living proof that this site does allow freedom of debate, however it should always be remembered that because people repeat and repeat the same old argument, time and time again, doesn't make it true.

Hope to see some Pasoti'ites at the Fans Forum at 1400. I'd love to see "Grumpy Loyal' but I know I won't. His odus operandi is like the others, dark corners, whispers, lies then repeat ad nauseam.

But a defence of someone, by someone who literally sits on his right hand, renders it pretty pointless and saps credibility. Although it is obviously predictable. I wouldn't expect any different though given the access you are afforded purely via your relationship with the Chairman. I get that, totally.

Irony is quite clearly lost on you though Ian with that last post of yours. You attack my character with gusto, yet try and accuse me of being vicious. Laughable.

 

[justanotherfan]

Brent's unwillingness to finance the refurb....yet there is no problem financing a PRIVATE hotel/leisure venture.

:facepalm:

I've seen this from a few people now, so perhaps it's something that has to be answered. As it Grumpy 'Loyal' I will attempt to do it as sarcastically and patronising as possible. For others that don't operate in a business environment I apologise in advance.

JB has stated many, many times that he will not gamble any of us of his family's money in a football club. I've now doubt he has spent more on Argyle than anyone on here, possibly collectively if truth be know, but it's no secret he's not a short term, local business man that's funding PAFC.

The fact that HE (important once again to stress that) cannot fund any of the refurb should therefore not surprise anyone, even the clique (a few on here, many on ATD and that lamentable Free Chat page) can surely understand the simplicity of that logic and statement.

Now then, for the viciously tongued keyboard type, of which Grumpy Loyal is a somewhat sad and typical example, it should be spelled out that attempting to find funding for anything to do with a football club is like trying to extract blood from a stone.

However (here's the important bit) if you can go to a bank, but probably more like venture capitalists and show a business plan with projected returns v running costs etc (based on data from other similar businesses) there's every chance of achieving funding for the aforementioned project.

Now go back to the football club refurb, what does he do? "Here we are, here's my figures, based on................." Crystal Palace, PAFC #1, Hereford, Leicester, Portsmouth, Leeds, Wrexham, Charlton, Tranmere, Northampton, Barnet, Port Vale, Exeter City etc etc etc. Hell yeah the Venture Capitalists would jump at the chance wouldn't they?? :crazy:

Now we have Jane and Simon willing to pump the money into PAFC is purely serendipitous. Two Argyle fans that have the money and want to help the club in any way they can. Both have told me and many others that they made the decision after attending a Senior Greens meeting and seeing what lovely people support our football club. That's a great story, and credit to both of them for giving us a chance of seeing a decent facility at Home Park.

Back to JB, I travel to an awful lot of matches with him, we chat obviously and he is as green as I am, I know what he likes and dislikes in football, I know why joy he gets from helping certain Argyle fans if they need help or help in any way. SO some snarkey keyboard warrior type that gives him gyp or attempts to portray a scheming industrial tycoon type figure is really way off the mark. There are about thirty people that do this on the net, we've all seen their comments, whether it be on FB (being fed by those that never shoot bullets but load them via PM's and E mails) ATD or even on here. They've done it from day one, and once again, it does seem as if these people have their own agenda. They seem to have dropper the 'Old Etonian' and 'Ex Banker' comments these days but that was their original mantra and truth be known it is the source of their antagonism towards the Chairman.

Rant over with, I'm going to the Fans Forum today, let's see if there's any such allegations made on a face to face basis. I attend most and haven't yet seen any.

It's good to debate and as I've said many times before the fact that "Grumpy Loyal" posts on here is living proof that this site does allow freedom of debate, however it should always be remembered that because people repeat and repeat the same old argument, time and time again, doesn't make it true.

Hope to see some Pasoti'ites at the Fans Forum at 1400. I'd love to see "Grumpy Loyal' but I know I won't. His odus operandi is like the others, dark corners, whispers, lies then repeat ad nauseam.

But a defence of someone, by someone who literally sits on his right hand, renders it pretty pointless and saps credibility. Although it is obviously predictable. I wouldn't expect any different though given the access you are afforded purely via your relationship with the Chairman. I get that, totally.

Irony is quite clearly lost on you though Ian with that last post of yours. You attack my character with gusto, yet try and accuse me of being vicious. Laughable.

Surely this "relationship" affords IJN an important insight into the character and motives of JB. If you are to be believed then IJN, whose love of Argyle and all things green (except maybe the shirt colour), is gullible and naïve to a frightening degree, no way. From where we were to where we are is a journey that has been enabled by JB and deserves our gratitude. Finally I have to say that I am not known to JB nor him to me.

 

[HC Green]

Brent's unwillingness to finance the refurb....yet there is no problem financing a PRIVATE hotel/leisure venture.

:facepalm:

I've seen this from a few people now, so perhaps it's something that has to be answered. As it Grumpy 'Loyal' I will attempt to do it as sarcastically and patronising as possible. For others that don't operate in a business environment I apologise in advance.

JB has stated many, many times that he will not gamble any of us of his family's money in a football club. I've now doubt he has spent more on Argyle than anyone on here, possibly collectively if truth be know, but it's no secret he's not a short term, local business man that's funding PAFC.

The fact that HE (important once again to stress that) cannot fund any of the refurb should therefore not surprise anyone, even the clique (a few on here, many on ATD and that lamentable Free Chat page) can surely understand the simplicity of that logic and statement.

Now then, for the viciously tongued keyboard type, of which Grumpy Loyal is a somewhat sad and typical example, it should be spelled out that attempting to find funding for anything to do with a football club is like trying to extract blood from a stone.

However (here's the important bit) if you can go to a bank, but probably more like venture capitalists and show a business plan with projected returns v running costs etc (based on data from other similar businesses) there's every chance of achieving funding for the aforementioned project.

Now go back to the football club refurb, what does he do? "Here we are, here's my figures, based on................." Crystal Palace, PAFC #1, Hereford, Leicester, Portsmouth, Leeds, Wrexham, Charlton, Tranmere, Northampton, Barnet, Port Vale, Exeter City etc etc etc. Hell yeah the Venture Capitalists would jump at the chance wouldn't they?? :crazy:

Now we have Jane and Simon willing to pump the money into PAFC is purely serendipitous. Two Argyle fans that have the money and want to help the club in any way they can. Both have told me and many others that they made the decision after attending a Senior Greens meeting and seeing what lovely people support our football club. That's a great story, and credit to both of them for giving us a chance of seeing a decent facility at Home Park.

Back to JB, I travel to an awful lot of matches with him, we chat obviously and he is as green as I am, I know what he likes and dislikes in football, I know why joy he gets from helping certain Argyle fans if they need help or help in any way. SO some snarkey keyboard warrior type that gives him gyp or attempts to portray a scheming industrial tycoon type figure is really way off the mark. There are about thirty people that do this on the net, we've all seen their comments, whether it be on FB (being fed by those that never shoot bullets but load them via PM's and E mails) ATD or even on here. They've done it from day one, and once again, it does seem as if these people have their own agenda. They seem to have dropper the 'Old Etonian' and 'Ex Banker' comments these days but that was their original mantra and truth be known it is the source of their antagonism towards the Chairman.

Rant over with, I'm going to the Fans Forum today, let's see if there's any such allegations made on a face to face basis. I attend most and haven't yet seen any.

It's good to debate and as I've said many times before the fact that "Grumpy Loyal" posts on here is living proof that this site does allow freedom of debate, however it should always be remembered that because people repeat and repeat the same old argument, time and time again, doesn't make it true.

Hope to see some Pasoti'ites at the Fans Forum at 1400. I'd love to see "Grumpy Loyal' but I know I won't. His odus operandi is like the others, dark corners, whispers, lies then repeat ad nauseam.

But a defence of someone, by someone who literally sits on his right hand, renders it pretty pointless and saps credibility. Although it is obviously predictable. I wouldn't expect any different though given the access you are afforded purely via your relationship with the Chairman. I get that, totally.

Irony is quite clearly lost on you though Ian with that last post of yours. You attack my character with gusto, yet try and accuse me of being vicious. Laughable.

The point you seem to have missed is that the Commercial development will be funded by borrowing.

There are people who are moaning that the money from the Halletts is a loan so saddling the Club with debt.

So the question is, if you want Brent to finance a larger Grandstand, how much more debt do you want you put on the Club.

You've also seem to have missed the point that Brent has always said the Football Club would have to be financially self sustainable.

 

[Abbotts Ann Green]

Well TGL, you state in a previous post "Three qualities and attributes? I can shorten and sum up in one sentence really. I'd like someone who, simply and unequivocally puts the long term interests of PAFC over and above ANY personal interest".

You then go on to say that Simon Hallett will give us this - can we have some evidence please. Yes he has loaned the club £5 million, but it is just a loan nothing more. What is his net worth? What other plans does he have? What guarantees has he offered?

 

[PL2 3DQ]

Brent's unwillingness to finance the refurb....yet there is no problem financing a PRIVATE hotel/leisure venture.

:facepalm:

I've seen this from a few people now, so perhaps it's something that has to be answered. As it Grumpy 'Loyal' I will attempt to do it as sarcastically and patronising as possible. For others that don't operate in a business environment I apologise in advance.

JB has stated many, many times that he will not gamble any of us of his family's money in a football club. I've now doubt he has spent more on Argyle than anyone on here, possibly collectively if truth be know, but it's no secret he's not a short term, local business man that's funding PAFC.

The fact that HE (important once again to stress that) cannot fund any of the refurb should therefore not surprise anyone, even the clique (a few on here, many on ATD and that lamentable Free Chat page) can surely understand the simplicity of that logic and statement.

Now then, for the viciously tongued keyboard type, of which Grumpy Loyal is a somewhat sad and typical example, it should be spelled out that attempting to find funding for anything to do with a football club is like trying to extract blood from a stone.

However (here's the important bit) if you can go to a bank, but probably more like venture capitalists and show a business plan with projected returns v running costs etc (based on data from other similar businesses) there's every chance of achieving funding for the aforementioned project.

Now go back to the football club refurb, what does he do? "Here we are, here's my figures, based on................." Crystal Palace, PAFC #1, Hereford, Leicester, Portsmouth, Leeds, Wrexham, Charlton, Tranmere, Northampton, Barnet, Port Vale, Exeter City etc etc etc. Hell yeah the Venture Capitalists would jump at the chance wouldn't they?? :crazy:

Now we have Jane and Simon willing to pump the money into PAFC is purely serendipitous. Two Argyle fans that have the money and want to help the club in any way they can. Both have told me and many others that they made the decision after attending a Senior Greens meeting and seeing what lovely people support our football club. That's a great story, and credit to both of them for giving us a chance of seeing a decent facility at Home Park.

Back to JB, I travel to an awful lot of matches with him, we chat obviously and he is as green as I am, I know what he likes and dislikes in football, I know why joy he gets from helping certain Argyle fans if they need help or help in any way. SO some snarkey keyboard warrior type that gives him gyp or attempts to portray a scheming industrial tycoon type figure is really way off the mark. There are about thirty people that do this on the net, we've all seen their comments, whether it be on FB (being fed by those that never shoot bullets but load them via PM's and E mails) ATD or even on here. They've done it from day one, and once again, it does seem as if these people have their own agenda. They seem to have dropper the 'Old Etonian' and 'Ex Banker' comments these days but that was their original mantra and truth be known it is the source of their antagonism towards the Chairman.

Rant over with, I'm going to the Fans Forum today, let's see if there's any such allegations made on a face to face basis. I attend most and haven't yet seen any.

It's good to debate and as I've said many times before the fact that "Grumpy Loyal" posts on here is living proof that this site does allow freedom of debate, however it should always be remembered that because people repeat and repeat the same old argument, time and time again, doesn't make it true.

Hope to see some Pasoti'ites at the Fans Forum at 1400. I'd love to see "Grumpy Loyal' but I know I won't. His odus operandi is like the others, dark corners, whispers, lies then repeat ad nauseam.

But a defence of someone, by someone who literally sits on his right hand, renders it pretty pointless and saps credibility. Although it is obviously predictable. I wouldn't expect any different though given the access you are afforded purely via your relationship with the Chairman. I get that, totally.

Irony is quite clearly lost on you though Ian with that last post of yours. You attack my character with gusto, yet try and accuse me of being vicious. Laughable.

Well today you can have access to JB (in fact JB is always willing to talk) at the Fans Forum. Have a chat with him and express your concerns, you might get him to change his mind on a few things or at least consider your views and vice versa.

 

[IJN]

Not a chance Ian. He like the rest of them type one handed from behind their keyboards!

Derek you are quite right, my relationship with JB does give me an insight into the man, I know how he loves our club.

Picture it, 4 minutes to go, I asked him, Simon Hallett, David Felwick and Tony Wrathall if they wanted it to stay 0-0 (all the money that would fetch) or a 90th minute winner from GC10.

To a man '1-0' - Says it all to me. Businessmen they be, but Argyle through and through.

I'll ignore the jealous led stuff from GL. It's their only resort.

The lies and crap on the internet will ramp up from the usual suspects after my post above, they hate it when I defend our Chairman, the bullet loaders will be bashing their keyboards tonight!

 

[nikkk]

Ian your posts are spot on mate.

 

[The Grumpy Loyal]

Brent's unwillingness to finance the refurb....yet there is no problem financing a PRIVATE hotel/leisure venture.

:facepalm:

I've seen this from a few people now, so perhaps it's something that has to be answered. As it Grumpy 'Loyal' I will attempt to do it as sarcastically and patronising as possible. For others that don't operate in a business environment I apologise in advance.

JB has stated many, many times that he will not gamble any of us of his family's money in a football club. I've now doubt he has spent more on Argyle than anyone on here, possibly collectively if truth be know, but it's no secret he's not a short term, local business man that's funding PAFC.

The fact that HE (important once again to stress that) cannot fund any of the refurb should therefore not surprise anyone, even the clique (a few on here, many on ATD and that lamentable Free Chat page) can surely understand the simplicity of that logic and statement.

Now then, for the viciously tongued keyboard type, of which Grumpy Loyal is a somewhat sad and typical example, it should be spelled out that attempting to find funding for anything to do with a football club is like trying to extract blood from a stone.

However (here's the important bit) if you can go to a bank, but probably more like venture capitalists and show a business plan with projected returns v running costs etc (based on data from other similar businesses) there's every chance of achieving funding for the aforementioned project.

Now go back to the football club refurb, what does he do? "Here we are, here's my figures, based on................." Crystal Palace, PAFC #1, Hereford, Leicester, Portsmouth, Leeds, Wrexham, Charlton, Tranmere, Northampton, Barnet, Port Vale, Exeter City etc etc etc. Hell yeah the Venture Capitalists would jump at the chance wouldn't they?? :crazy:

Now we have Jane and Simon willing to pump the money into PAFC is purely serendipitous. Two Argyle fans that have the money and want to help the club in any way they can. Both have told me and many others that they made the decision after attending a Senior Greens meeting and seeing what lovely people support our football club. That's a great story, and credit to both of them for giving us a chance of seeing a decent facility at Home Park.

Back to JB, I travel to an awful lot of matches with him, we chat obviously and he is as green as I am, I know what he likes and dislikes in football, I know why joy he gets from helping certain Argyle fans if they need help or help in any way. SO some snarkey keyboard warrior type that gives him gyp or attempts to portray a scheming industrial tycoon type figure is really way off the mark. There are about thirty people that do this on the net, we've all seen their comments, whether it be on FB (being fed by those that never shoot bullets but load them via PM's and E mails) ATD or even on here. They've done it from day one, and once again, it does seem as if these people have their own agenda. They seem to have dropper the 'Old Etonian' and 'Ex Banker' comments these days but that was their original mantra and truth be known it is the source of their antagonism towards the Chairman.

Rant over with, I'm going to the Fans Forum today, let's see if there's any such allegations made on a face to face basis. I attend most and haven't yet seen any.

It's good to debate and as I've said many times before the fact that "Grumpy Loyal" posts on here is living proof that this site does allow freedom of debate, however it should always be remembered that because people repeat and repeat the same old argument, time and time again, doesn't make it true.

Hope to see some Pasoti'ites at the Fans Forum at 1400. I'd love to see "Grumpy Loyal' but I know I won't. His odus operandi is like the others, dark corners, whispers, lies then repeat ad nauseam.

But a defence of someone, by someone who literally sits on his right hand, renders it pretty pointless and saps credibility. Although it is obviously predictable. I wouldn't expect any different though given the access you are afforded purely via your relationship with the Chairman. I get that, totally.

Irony is quite clearly lost on you though Ian with that last post of yours. You attack my character with gusto, yet try and accuse me of being vicious. Laughable.

Well today you can have access to JB (in fact JB is always willing to talk) at the Fans Forum. Have a chat with him and express your concerns, you might get him to change his mind on a few things or at least consider your views and vice versa.

I apologise in advance for being one of the 99% that don't wish to sit and be patronised (mainly by Starnes tbf) for an hour, whilst all along knowing my overriding fundamental disagreements are irrelevant to Board members present. That said, I'm sure the same 1% that attend these events will duly lap it all up (with two or three notable exceptions).

That's the reality I'm afraid, Codey.