New Grandstand - 2 day public consultation

[Steve Evans]

Brent's unwillingness to finance the refurb....yet there is no problem financing a PRIVATE hotel/leisure venture.

:facepalm:

I've seen this from a few people now, so perhaps it's something that has to be answered. As it Grumpy 'Loyal' I will attempt to do it as sarcastically and patronising as possible. For others that don't operate in a business environment I apologise in advance.

JB has stated many, many times that he will not gamble any of us of his family's money in a football club. I've now doubt he has spent more on Argyle than anyone on here, possibly collectively if truth be know, but it's no secret he's not a short term, local business man that's funding PAFC.

The fact that HE (important once again to stress that) cannot fund any of the refurb should therefore not surprise anyone, even the clique (a few on here, many on ATD and that lamentable Free Chat page) can surely understand the simplicity of that logic and statement.

Now then, for the viciously tongued keyboard type, of which Grumpy Loyal is a somewhat sad and typical example, it should be spelled out that attempting to find funding for anything to do with a football club is like trying to extract blood from a stone.

However (here's the important bit) if you can go to a bank, but probably more like venture capitalists and show a business plan with projected returns v running costs etc (based on data from other similar businesses) there's every chance of achieving funding for the aforementioned project.

Now go back to the football club refurb, what does he do? "Here we are, here's my figures, based on................." Crystal Palace, PAFC #1, Hereford, Leicester, Portsmouth, Leeds, Wrexham, Charlton, Tranmere, Northampton, Barnet, Port Vale, Exeter City etc etc etc. Hell yeah the Venture Capitalists would jump at the chance wouldn't they?? :crazy:

Now we have Jane and Simon willing to pump the money into PAFC is purely serendipitous. Two Argyle fans that have the money and want to help the club in any way they can. Both have told me and many others that they made the decision after attending a Senior Greens meeting and seeing what lovely people support our football club. That's a great story, and credit to both of them for giving us a chance of seeing a decent facility at Home Park.

Back to JB, I travel to an awful lot of matches with him, we chat obviously and he is as green as I am, I know what he likes and dislikes in football, I know why joy he gets from helping certain Argyle fans if they need help or help in any way. SO some snarkey keyboard warrior type that gives him gyp or attempts to portray a scheming industrial tycoon type figure is really way off the mark. There are about thirty people that do this on the net, we've all seen their comments, whether it be on FB (being fed by those that never shoot bullets but load them via PM's and E mails) ATD or even on here. They've done it from day one, and once again, it does seem as if these people have their own agenda. They seem to have dropper the 'Old Etonian' and 'Ex Banker' comments these days but that was their original mantra and truth be known it is the source of their antagonism towards the Chairman.

Rant over with, I'm going to the Fans Forum today, let's see if there's any such allegations made on a face to face basis. I attend most and haven't yet seen any.

It's good to debate and as I've said many times before the fact that "Grumpy Loyal" posts on here is living proof that this site does allow freedom of debate, however it should always be remembered that because people repeat and repeat the same old argument, time and time again, doesn't make it true.

Hope to see some Pasoti'ites at the Fans Forum at 1400. I'd love to see "Grumpy Loyal' but I know I won't. His odus operandi is like the others, dark corners, whispers, lies then repeat ad nauseam.

But a defence of someone, by someone who literally sits on his right hand, renders it pretty pointless and saps credibility. Although it is obviously predictable. I wouldn't expect any different though given the access you are afforded purely via your relationship with the Chairman. I get that, totally.

Irony is quite clearly lost on you though Ian with that last post of yours. You attack my character with gusto, yet try and accuse me of being vicious. Laughable.

mr. grumpy loyal,why don't you go to the fans forum and put your points to mr brent and ian newell?i do not know either gentleman by the way

 

[The Grumpy Loyal]

I should have added before, there are multiple channels available for communication regarding voicing of concerns to the club. That's a huge reason why I have the utmost respect for Simon Hallett.

I'll leave it there.

 

[DartPilgrim]

Brent's unwillingness to finance the refurb....yet there is no problem financing a PRIVATE hotel/leisure venture.

:facepalm:

I've seen this from a few people now, so perhaps it's something that has to be answered. As it Grumpy 'Loyal' I will attempt to do it as sarcastically and patronising as possible. For others that don't operate in a business environment I apologise in advance.

JB has stated many, many times that he will not gamble any of us of his family's money in a football club. I've now doubt he has spent more on Argyle than anyone on here, possibly collectively if truth be know, but it's no secret he's not a short term, local business man that's funding PAFC.

The fact that HE (important once again to stress that) cannot fund any of the refurb should therefore not surprise anyone, even the clique (a few on here, many on ATD and that lamentable Free Chat page) can surely understand the simplicity of that logic and statement.

Now then, for the viciously tongued keyboard type, of which Grumpy Loyal is a somewhat sad and typical example, it should be spelled out that attempting to find funding for anything to do with a football club is like trying to extract blood from a stone.

However (here's the important bit) if you can go to a bank, but probably more like venture capitalists and show a business plan with projected returns v running costs etc (based on data from other similar businesses) there's every chance of achieving funding for the aforementioned project.

Now go back to the football club refurb, what does he do? "Here we are, here's my figures, based on................." Crystal Palace, PAFC #1, Hereford, Leicester, Portsmouth, Leeds, Wrexham, Charlton, Tranmere, Northampton, Barnet, Port Vale, Exeter City etc etc etc. Hell yeah the Venture Capitalists would jump at the chance wouldn't they?? :crazy:

Now we have Jane and Simon willing to pump the money into PAFC is purely serendipitous. Two Argyle fans that have the money and want to help the club in any way they can. Both have told me and many others that they made the decision after attending a Senior Greens meeting and seeing what lovely people support our football club. That's a great story, and credit to both of them for giving us a chance of seeing a decent facility at Home Park.

Back to JB, I travel to an awful lot of matches with him, we chat obviously and he is as green as I am, I know what he likes and dislikes in football, I know why joy he gets from helping certain Argyle fans if they need help or help in any way. SO some snarkey keyboard warrior type that gives him gyp or attempts to portray a scheming industrial tycoon type figure is really way off the mark. There are about thirty people that do this on the net, we've all seen their comments, whether it be on FB (being fed by those that never shoot bullets but load them via PM's and E mails) ATD or even on here. They've done it from day one, and once again, it does seem as if these people have their own agenda. They seem to have dropper the 'Old Etonian' and 'Ex Banker' comments these days but that was their original mantra and truth be known it is the source of their antagonism towards the Chairman.

Rant over with, I'm going to the Fans Forum today, let's see if there's any such allegations made on a face to face basis. I attend most and haven't yet seen any.

It's good to debate and as I've said many times before the fact that "Grumpy Loyal" posts on here is living proof that this site does allow freedom of debate, however it should always be remembered that because people repeat and repeat the same old argument, time and time again, doesn't make it true.

Hope to see some Pasoti'ites at the Fans Forum at 1400. I'd love to see "Grumpy Loyal' but I know I won't. His odus operandi is like the others, dark corners, whispers, lies then repeat ad nauseam.

But a defence of someone, by someone who literally sits on his right hand, renders it pretty pointless and saps credibility. Although it is obviously predictable. I wouldn't expect any different though given the access you are afforded purely via your relationship with the Chairman. I get that, totally.

Irony is quite clearly lost on you though Ian with that last post of yours. You attack my character with gusto, yet try and accuse me of being vicious. Laughable.

Well today you can have access to JB (in fact JB is always willing to talk) at the Fans Forum. Have a chat with him and express your concerns, you might get him to change his mind on a few things or at least consider your views and vice versa.

I apologise in advance for being one of the 99% that don't wish to sit and be patronised (mainly by Starnes tbf) for an hour, whilst all along knowing my overriding fundamental disagreements are irrelevant to Board members present. That said, I'm sure the same 1% that attend these events will duly lap it all up (with two or three notable exceptions).

That's the reality I'm afraid, Codey.

That's some assumption you are making there Grumpy , that anyone who doesn't attend , is missing this because they don't wish to be patronised .
Perhaps your real reason for not attending , is that you don't have any questions to ask at all , you only appear to want to make unfounded accusations towards James Brent and have no interest in finding out whether you are right or not .
Still , it would appear you get some pleasure from this so hope you enjoy life on your paranoid little planet .

 

[Greenskin]

Brent's unwillingness to finance the refurb....yet there is no problem financing a PRIVATE hotel/leisure venture.

:facepalm:

I've seen this from a few people now, so perhaps it's something that has to be answered. As it Grumpy 'Loyal' I will attempt to do it as sarcastically and patronising as possible. For others that don't operate in a business environment I apologise in advance.

JB has stated many, many times that he will not gamble any of us of his family's money in a football club. I've now doubt he has spent more on Argyle than anyone on here, possibly collectively if truth be know, but it's no secret he's not a short term, local business man that's funding PAFC.

The fact that HE (important once again to stress that) cannot fund any of the refurb should therefore not surprise anyone, even the clique (a few on here, many on ATD and that lamentable Free Chat page) can surely understand the simplicity of that logic and statement.

Now then, for the viciously tongued keyboard type, of which Grumpy Loyal is a somewhat sad and typical example, it should be spelled out that attempting to find funding for anything to do with a football club is like trying to extract blood from a stone.

However (here's the important bit) if you can go to a bank, but probably more like venture capitalists and show a business plan with projected returns v running costs etc (based on data from other similar businesses) there's every chance of achieving funding for the aforementioned project.

Now go back to the football club refurb, what does he do? "Here we are, here's my figures, based on................." Crystal Palace, PAFC #1, Hereford, Leicester, Portsmouth, Leeds, Wrexham, Charlton, Tranmere, Northampton, Barnet, Port Vale, Exeter City etc etc etc. Hell yeah the Venture Capitalists would jump at the chance wouldn't they?? :crazy:

Now we have Jane and Simon willing to pump the money into PAFC is purely serendipitous. Two Argyle fans that have the money and want to help the club in any way they can. Both have told me and many others that they made the decision after attending a Senior Greens meeting and seeing what lovely people support our football club. That's a great story, and credit to both of them for giving us a chance of seeing a decent facility at Home Park.

Back to JB, I travel to an awful lot of matches with him, we chat obviously and he is as green as I am, I know what he likes and dislikes in football, I know why joy he gets from helping certain Argyle fans if they need help or help in any way. SO some snarkey keyboard warrior type that gives him gyp or attempts to portray a scheming industrial tycoon type figure is really way off the mark. There are about thirty people that do this on the net, we've all seen their comments, whether it be on FB (being fed by those that never shoot bullets but load them via PM's and E mails) ATD or even on here. They've done it from day one, and once again, it does seem as if these people have their own agenda. They seem to have dropper the 'Old Etonian' and 'Ex Banker' comments these days but that was their original mantra and truth be known it is the source of their antagonism towards the Chairman.

Rant over with, I'm going to the Fans Forum today, let's see if there's any such allegations made on a face to face basis. I attend most and haven't yet seen any.

It's good to debate and as I've said many times before the fact that "Grumpy Loyal" posts on here is living proof that this site does allow freedom of debate, however it should always be remembered that because people repeat and repeat the same old argument, time and time again, doesn't make it true.

Hope to see some Pasoti'ites at the Fans Forum at 1400. I'd love to see "Grumpy Loyal' but I know I won't. His odus operandi is like the others, dark corners, whispers, lies then repeat ad nauseam.

Indeed so. Rather like continually pinning the blame on the Bretonside development for the failure of the first HHP proposals.

 

[The Duke]

I think this debate is healthy. Everyone should be respected for their views. There are a lot of concerned fans about this development and the motives of JB. This is OK, it's not a bad thing. We just want what's best for the club.

 

[X Isle]

Surely this "relationship" affords IJN an important insight into the character and motives of JB. If you are to be believed then IJN, whose love of Argyle and all things green (except maybe the shirt colour), is gullible and naïve to a frightening degree, no way. From where we were to where we are is a journey that has been enabled by JB and deserves our gratitude. Finally I have to say that I am not known to JB nor him to me.

Either frighteningly gullible or part of a wider conspiracy to deceive us all.

Neither stack up for me and never have. I am a firm believer in taking people as I find them, not looking at the colour they are painted by others. Ian strikes me as a belligerent old git (in a good way) but neither a fool nor a 'Lord Haw Haw'. JB doesn't exactly fit the profile of a working man's hero, I can see how cynical types would saddle him with their stereotypical prejudices but he was exactly what we needed at that nadir in our history.

Some would call it miserly, others like me would call it prudent. But his stewardship of our finances to bring us back to self sufficiency and his shrewd judge of character in managerial appointments has been spot on meaning year on year we have turned a deficit to a profit and improved our league position every year. Not fast enough for the 'now now NOW' set but fast enough for us longer term pragmatic realists.

I championed his involvement during administration (the alternatives though were truly frightening) and I have seen nothing since to believe we are in anything but good hands. If he makes some money for himself ultimately in the process by the time he has finished then who are we to criticise, that is after all what businessmen do. So long as Argyle are not harmed in the process, crack on. This proposal distances our bit from his bit much more than the initial plans, which will give us room to breathe once he has moved on.

We should always hold owners to account, and TGL and his mindset are at Olympic levels of cynicism and suspicion. I don't bury my head to it indeed I actively seek it out to take the broadest pulse of the Argyle fan base. But I from my own opinions, from all the available perspectives. As stated above JB's track record has been positive, and until/unless that changes he retains my support.

And like you JAF I have no connection to JB whatsoever.

 

[Presto]

Although my personal contact with James Brent is limited to a couple of hours when he went out of his way to support a local community sports facility I have no doubt with regard to his integrity and genuine desire to ensure the survival of PAFC.

If he were a multi billionaire then some of the questions raised about motives may be valid. He is not in that category. Why would any intelligent person throw there family money at a football club least of one that has never reached the top flight of the game. Perhaps Grumpy Loyal might like to mortgage his house ( if he has one) and pour the proceeds into financing Argyle.

Producing a business plan with cash flow projections etc against the development of the associated facilities enables funding to be carried out a through a range of financial bodies. As has always been stated by JB Argyle has to be sustainable through self generated income not from a sugar daddy. That was made clear when he took over the club.

The truth is the knockers do not wish to recognise the facts and are consumed by jealousy, closed minds and sadness that they will never be able to achieve the level of contribution JB has made to the City in saving the club.

 

[xmastree]

I'm not here to defend The Grumpy Loyal or, for that matter, his views. Equally I am supportive of anyone who argues a diametrically opposed viewpoint. Where it goes wrong for me is with those who imply that TGL and others of a similar persuasion have no right to express them.

To me, Pasoti is at its best when a range of different views are expressed in a debate. I actually enjoy reading views that are completely different from my own, particularly if they are backed by some sort of evidence. Sometimes I'm even influenced to change my own opinion! In contrast, threads that merely consist of loads of people saying the same thing do nothing to excite me, whilst random comments unsupported by any evidence are ignored. Reasoned debate is healthy, and questioning (in an appropriate manner) should certainly be encouraged.

To me, one of the joys of Pasoti (at its best) is being able to make up one's own mind on individual issues. I certainly don't subscribe to block thinking - for example the opinion of justanotherfan on this thread that we should all follow IJN's views on JB because he knows him best. That's no criticism of Ian or JB, but I'd rather make up my own mind on each issue. I also don't understand those who allow themselves to become frustrated at being unable to change the views of others, as Davie nine admits to on this thread. It's not worth it, this is an internet forum after all, fine for relaxation but not the real world, and not worth stressing over.

On a slightly different topic, I find it interesting that Simon Hallett seems to get a much easier ride than James Brent. Yes, SH has coughed up the loan, and appears to be more touchy-feely than the Chairman. However, whilst most fans surely understand pretty clearly where JB is coming from after nearly 6 years, I feel much less is known about SH's background. Can anyone articulate why it appears that SH seems to have greater appeal for many? It can't surely be down to money?

 

[Guiri Green]

The Ice Rink is planned to be built on land James Brent owns. Legally acquired as part of the carve up of land that came about post Administration ? If he gets PP then good luck to him.

The other bit of land has PP applied for and is being sold 'subject to contract' (as read in the Herald), so he might not end up owning it.

Nobody with less money than sense throws too much money at a Football Club. Plenty might invest in Bricks and Mortar that offers a return.

The latest grand vision of HP is certainly better than the last. The only part of it most likely to proceed is the Grandstand.

Happy with the steady progress made by the Club under his stewardship. His apparent track record in gathering investment and making progress in other projects might ease some peoples anxiety.

Central Park might benefit from an influx of visitors attracted by the proposed developments.

 

[metroace]

The intention to build a gym right next door in competition to the Life Centre. The intention to build a cafe when he knows the FOCP are building one in the park. Morally, why would you do that?

For the players to train in and to save the cost of corporate membership at the Life Centre. Also so that the players can do their gym training in peace without the possibility of being disturbed by fans when they are meant to be working (training). As for the cafe, why not? The FOCP have hardly been supporters of PAFC over the years as far as I can see looking back over the years of postings on this forum.

 

[Forest of Dean Green]

We have a solvent football club running within its means. We've invested money back into the infrastructure (training pitch) for good purpose. It's sustainable. We've got a refurbished grandstand to look forward to on very good terms by the look of it. We've just re-signed the best player we've had in a good few years and have an excellent manager.

And we went to Wembley

Oh, and we got promoted

And the amazing this is we did all of that with a bloke who never said he'd fund us out if his own pocket. Always on terms that we'd have to do it sustainably. And he probably wouldn't have done that if he hadn't seen a bit of benefit down the track for himself.

It's hardly shaking hands with the devil is it?

 

[IJN]

A really good Fans Forum that one. Must have been around 100 there and some challenging questions asked and answered.

 

[Biggs]

Can't wait to watch it, assuming and hoping that it will be put on YouTube shortly?

 

[ghost of hughie reed]

When " Phase one " occurs, does anybody know for sure whether we get a floodlight upgrade ? ( Not canvassing your assumptions here. )
I live 200 miles away so cant attend to ask in person.
Another poster raised the issue of the camera gantry location, any one have info on that please ?

 

[PlymOdi]

Can't wait to watch it, assuming and hoping that it will be put on YouTube shortly?

I hope if it is, the sound quality is far better than the stream was.