New Grandstand - 2 day public consultation

[Ade the green]

It's a hypothetical question, but I think an important one to bare in mind with regards to the bigger picture here.

Many fans are happy to just turn a blind eye and ignore everything that's happening simply because Plymouth Argyle are getting an updated grandstand and quite frankly that's as far as their interest in the situation goes.

However, IF (and yes it's an IF), Simon Hallett wasn't extremely generously lending the club £5 million and no refurbishment of the grandstand was therefore taking place, how would this forum be reacting to a plan by James Brent to build a massive profit-making home park complex separate to Argyle with no profit or moneys whatsoever going towards either the financing of a stand or the club?

I would think that the last thing an Ice Rink would be is a massive profit-making complex.

You would be surprised mate. Fife Ice Arena in Kirkcaldy does surprisingly well, when it is not being used for ice hockey then it is open to the public and it does very good trade. Bare in mind that you also have rinks in Edinburgh and Dundee in competition, I think that an ice arena in Plymouth with the nearest next one being a long, way away would be very popular, and people would travel there from all over Devon and Cornwall.

I also believe there are ways to turn an Ice Rink into a basketball court with mats and wooden panelling so would also be good for the Raiders. The same thing could also be achieved for concerts etc surely.

 

[IJN]

To answer Rob's rather pointless question, I would imagine the answer would be 'not very well'. But it's not the case and most sane people will think (as the Grandstand IS being refurbed) good luck to him, it's his land.

What is it with some people, do they think 'I wonder what profit Tescos make' when they pay at the till?

We've got two Argyle fans bunging £5m into the refurb, the Argyle board are chucking in another £900k for the roof (which wasn't in the original budget) and we've kept our iconic Art Deco frontage. Oh and we've just been promoted!!

Jesus, us fans eh? :lol:

 

[Penmaster]

It's a hypothetical question, but I think an important one to bare in mind with regards to the bigger picture here.

Many fans are happy to just turn a blind eye and ignore everything that's happening simply because Plymouth Argyle are getting an updated grandstand and quite frankly that's as far as their interest in the situation goes.

However, IF (and yes it's an IF), Simon Hallett wasn't extremely generously lending the club £5 million and no refurbishment of the grandstand was therefore taking place, how would this forum be reacting to a plan by James Brent to build a massive profit-making home park complex separate to Argyle with no profit or moneys whatsoever going towards either the financing of a stand or the club?

Hypothetical and also completely pointless.

No its not pointless, its probably one of the most salient posts on the thread. Its only pointless because you cant answer it.

It is pointless and it wouldn't happen, do you think it's just coincidence that both schemes of that kind have come as part of a grandstand development?

Why hasn't JB got started on a 'massive profit making complex' in the long period since the last HHP scheme went up in smoke?

That's pretty much my point isn't it, if Brent had gone public with these plans before a generous fan decided to lend us £5 million quid to develop our stand this forum and Argyle fans in general would have gone into meltdown, so he wouldn't been able to get away with it.

I guess that Brents financial contribution to the stadium development comes in the form of the share issue to Simon Hallett. IF (big if) he has relinquished a large proportion of his share ownership for the 900k that Mr Hallett now owns, JB is technically taking a financial hit on the value of his shares in the club. I don't think the official information about who owns how much of the club has been released so we cannot gauge the amount that Brent has technically contributed to the Argyle side of the development.

Although Mr Hallett is a fan of the club, he is also a successful businessman who surely wouldnt pour 5 million of his hard earnt pounds into the club at a low interest rate if he could not see Brent making some form of risk or financial contribution.

JB 'Hi Simon. Can you pay for the new stand please? I would but I want to put all my money into commercial development on other land around HP that should make me more profit on my investment than if I was to put it into the new stand'

SH 'Yeah that's fine. Here's 5 million. Pay us back over next 30 years or so'

I just cannot see that type of conversation happening.

 

[Ade the green]

Is there anything to stop PAFC buying into a money making business like an arena in which profits can be channelled into the club?

 

[justanotherfan]

JB came to Argyle as a businessman and not a fan, thank goodness for the first and he has been converted to the second. As an astute businessman he insisted that the way out of the mire for PAFC was to be self financing and sustainable, he has done that in spades. He, however, remains a businessman and to that aim he intends to develop property/land that is legally his to do with as he sees fit, planning permissions etc. notwithstanding. He did not purchase the club as a hobby or as a sop to an overblown ego as has happened so many times to various clubs, he recognised it as an important community asset which also provided a commercial opportunity for himself. Would any of the JB detractors be as vocal if Chris Dawson offered to invest say fifty million into Argyle as a means to also turn large swathes of HHP/HP into a mega Range, I think not. To try and deny JB the chance to further his business activities which have no detrimental effect on the club is churlish and mean.

 

[jimsing]

Is there anything to stop PAFC buying into a money making business like an arena in which profits can be channelled into the club?

Only the money, that's all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Abbotts Ann Green]

Also, if you buy in and there are losses as opposed to profits then the club would be liable for those too. Having just got out of one financial mess we do not want to get into another one.

 

[Keepitgreen]

It's a hypothetical question, but I think an important one to bare in mind with regards to the bigger picture here.

Many fans are happy to just turn a blind eye and ignore everything that's happening simply because Plymouth Argyle are getting an updated grandstand and quite frankly that's as far as their interest in the situation goes.

However, IF (and yes it's an IF), Simon Hallett wasn't extremely generously lending the club £5 million and no refurbishment of the grandstand was therefore taking place, how would this forum be reacting to a plan by James Brent to build a massive profit-making home park complex separate to Argyle with no profit or moneys whatsoever going towards either the financing of a stand or the club?

I would think that the last thing an Ice Rink would be is a massive profit-making complex.

You would be surprised mate. Fife Ice Arena in Kirkcaldy does surprisingly well, when it is not being used for ice hockey then it is open to the public and it does very good trade. Bare in mind that you also have rinks in Edinburgh and Dundee in competition, I think that an ice arena in Plymouth with the nearest next one being a long, way away would be very popular, and people would travel there from all over Devon and Cornwall.

I also believe there are ways to turn an Ice Rink into a basketball court with mats and wooden panelling so would also be good for the Raiders. The same thing could also be achieved for concerts etc surely.

I believe it was said yesterday that Raiders will not be sharing the use of the ice rink.

 

[Quintrell Green]

It's a hypothetical question, but I think an important one to bare in mind with regards to the bigger picture here.

Many fans are happy to just turn a blind eye and ignore everything that's happening simply because Plymouth Argyle are getting an updated grandstand and quite frankly that's as far as their interest in the situation goes.

However, IF (and yes it's an IF), Simon Hallett wasn't extremely generously lending the club £5 million and no refurbishment of the grandstand was therefore taking place, how would this forum be reacting to a plan by James Brent to build a massive profit-making home park complex separate to Argyle with no profit or moneys whatsoever going towards either the financing of a stand or the club?

I would think that the last thing an Ice Rink would be is a massive profit-making complex.

You would be surprised mate. Fife Ice Arena in Kirkcaldy does surprisingly well, when it is not being used for ice hockey then it is open to the public and it does very good trade. Bare in mind that you also have rinks in Edinburgh and Dundee in competition, I think that an ice arena in Plymouth with the nearest next one being a long, way away would be very popular, and people would travel there from all over Devon and Cornwall.

A covered ice rink is made available at the Eden Project for a couple of months over the Christmas period and over the years [probably at least 5] it has proven popular and successful. I do not understand the negativity over a new facility at HHP. JB having run the ice rink facility at the Pavilions Complex would know/understand its' popularity and more importantly the turnover generated. I am sure this data would be uppermost in his business head before planning a new rink. Good Luck to him.

 

[The Grumpy Loyal]

It's a fair point. I'm really too bothered what goes up, or what James Brent makes from it. I wish him all the best, but as a fan of the football club my interest lies in what benefit all this extra stuff stands to serve Argyle?

The Grandstand uplift is set to happen with Simon Hallett's loan AND money from the other directors. No amount has been disclosed, but this project isn't solely funded through the Hallett's cash - mostly, but it has been reported that the directors have put in a bit on top. I'm guessing that's where the director reshuffle comes into things?

The Grandstand uplift should not be (and I don't believe it is) dependent on the commercial projects. The commercial venture is separate as far as I can see. The only conjoining factor being the club used to own part of the land until Brent sold it to himself (or was it previously in council hands, my memory is it was all part of the club?).

So, the question remains. If Hallett has a change of heart and no longer fronts the loan for the Grandstand uplift, would we be happy with Home Park remaining as is, while James Brent builds this commercial project next door? I for one wouldn't be. So are we actually set to gain from this project? Mr Wrench suggest that there's some form of profit share? Does anyone have further information on this to help ease the souls of some of us skeptics?

Previously HHP was going to take place and the club would benefit to the tune of 10mil in the form of a brand new (albeit small) grandstand. If, say, the development was going to finance stage 2 then great. But stage 2 is wishful thinking and uncosted as things stand.

To clarify, any ''profit share relates to the land directly behind the Grandstand which Brent bought years ago. It relates to the terms whereby Brent had to either provide a Grandstand or put a certain amount back into the community (though I don't recall the actual exact wording).

That is totally separate to this new parcel of land Brent is wanting to buy behind the Life Centre where he would build a hotel above a number of commercial units. This is a new private venture of Brents separate from any PAFC involvement.

 

[Tugboat]

Ian we get your closer connection and friendly relationship with Mr Brent and no doubt you have more of an insight into certain agendas but you don't have to do patronising when answering/discussing things you see differently to others.

 

[Rob GT4]

It's all very well saying 'I don't care what profits Brent makes with this development aslong as we get our grandstand'. But there's more to it than that.

The original plans were a large-scale HHP development which was widely accepted as some of the profits were to be put into the football club in the shape of a 10 million pound grandstand, fair enough. Instead what we've got now is a situation where instead the club is saddled with a 5 million debt to pay back for its own grandstand, while Brent does his massive development on land that was previously the football clubs and keeps all of the profits for himself with no contribution to the club.

 

[HC Green]

It's all very well saying 'I don't care what profits Brent makes with this development aslong as we get our grandstand'. But there's more to it than that.

The original plans were a large-scale HHP development which was widely accepted as some of the profits were to be put into the football club in the shape of a 10 million pound grandstand, fair enough. Instead what we've got now is a situation where instead the club is saddled with a 5 million debt to pay back for its own grandstand, while Brent does his massive development on land that was previously the football clubs and keeps all of the profits for himself with no contribution to the club.

What profits is there going to be from an Ice Rink, it is probably going to rely on the income from the restaurants, gym and office build to subsidise it.

 

[jimsing]

We have to get away from the idea that HHP car park belongs to the Club. It no longer does, it is owned by James Brent, and we have NO say in what he does with it.
Saying that, I do believe whatever he does with that land, and we now know what he is proposing, it will be of some benefit indirectly to PAFC, being so close to Home Park, it will have some effect on footfall at Home Park itself.

 

[Ian H]

No its not pointless, its probably one of the most salient posts on the thread. Its only pointless because you cant answer it.

bullpoo