Peter Jones in Sunday Independent

[Tyhee_Slim]

PJ has a different perspective because he can see the books. It must be frustrating when you're privy to information that suggests you could afford a better calibre of player if - say - only another 1,250 fans came through the gates every other week.

Argyle directors and chairmen have a long history of bemoaning Home Park attendances, and most of us would probably take the same view if we had the spreadsheets in front of us.

He would also be very aware that Argyle had a record breaking season in 2001/2 in spite of the average gates at the same stage of the season as now being about 2000 per match lower.

Don't forget though that until the new stands were opened for the boxing day game against Torquay the capacity was drastically reduced due to the building work.

Crowds at Argyle always build during a promotion season. They usually get noticeably different after Christmas, but sometimes the 'buzz' starts a little earlier, like the 74/75 season.

I often wonder though whether the legendary 'potential' of Argyle in terms of crowd sizes hasnt been somewhat skewed down the years by the fact that for a good part of our history we were rattling around in a ground that was too big for us.

I've been in 30k + crowds there a few times, and am just too young to remember the 40K capacity of the early 60s, but these crowds were very much one-offs for special occasions. I would suggest that clubs like, say, Swindon, Gillingham, Peterborough, Preston (to name just a few, with a decent geographical spread) would, given a similar capacity to the old HP, have attracted the same sort of crowds for these sorts of games, and would maybe even have had them more often. Yes, those occasional big crowds definitely demonstrate an appetite for 'big time' football in the area but, unfortunately, not - as yet - a desire to be part of the necessary growth of Argyle. You could put it down to the modern desire for instant gratification, but to be honest it's always been pretty much the same. Janners don't seem particularly interested in watching a 'work in progress'.

So, the board (and previous ones) definitely have my sympathy when it comes to winning hearts and minds, but that said I do think they are going to have to come up with a few new ideas to attract new blood and the next generation of fans.

I don't think that Peter has said anything out of order, and this is nothing compared with that rant that the board had on the 'baggo' a few seasons back, but I really dont think that criticism of potential support is the way to go here.

An idea. A few years back I was in Sorrento on holiday. The local club had just, for the first time in their history I think, been promoted to what I think was the regional Serie C. I happened to be there for the first game of the season and the ground was just behind our hotel. I managed to get a ticket (it was a sellout) and went along. A really enjoyable day, despite the football being pretty poor and the game being a 0-0 borefest, where the club managed to make it a very attractive family day out but without making it too 'Disneyfied' - it still felt like a football match. One thing the club did was send out a monthly sort of flyer/leaflet thingie which was available free of charge in virtually every shop, bar, cafe or whatever in Sorrento. This listed upcoming fixtures, details of ticket promotions, little bits of info about players etc etc. Quite a lot of adverts of course, but it was a glossy freebie about the size of a programme but only about twelve pages. It was, I suppose, a sort of modern version of the old fashioned fixture lists that used to be regularly seen in shops in Plymouth. My local butcher in Torpoint, for instance, used to have a full season fixture list plus a regular short list showing the home fixtures for the current month. I think something like the Sorrento 'flyer' would work for Argyle. Perhaps this is something that could be produced by a fans' organisation (with the club's blessing and backing) as I think it may put a slightly different slant on things. It would have to be impartial in terms of opinions about the club and off-pitch stuff of course, and maybe should restrict itself to promoting future events rather than dwelling on the past. As good as it would be to report on a winning streak, there would be times when this would not be possible, and I think such a publication has to be all about positivity and attracting people. One of the reasons I have for suggesting that fans get involved is to do with distribution as I think individual people could take responsibility for areas both within and outside the city. There's a lot of ground to cover, and local knowledge could be very important.

It's the sort of thing I would, if I lived down there, love to get involved with myself but current circumstances don't allow it unfortunately.

 

[jollygreenjohn]

Exeter do the "flyers" you describe with up coming fixtures. You see them in shop windows around East Devon. Doesn't seem to do them a lot of good attendance wise but at least there is no excuse of not knowing there was a match on.

 

[droly]

There is no question that the club needs to market itself far more imaginatively, there are generations of potential fans who are currently MIA. It's suffered from the fact it was never able to reach a compromise with the DJM league regarding Saturday kick off times. I don't know if this has now been resolved but I'm certain this had a massive effect on attendances. I played football on a Saturday afternoon from the age of 11 until 16 and kick off times meant I could get to Home Park once in a blue moon. Obviously this meant I ended up drifting away and I even sported a Chelsea shirt* (God, this must be my most embarrassing post ever) for a few years. These are the years where you end up cementing your football loyalties and it was only chance that I ended up coming back to Argyle at all. There must be hundreds the same age as me who never made it back from the SKY wastelands. I always seemed ridiculous to me that the most football mad boys (the ones that played it) were excluded from watching their local team.

* I feel I must point out that this is mitigated by two factors. 1) my dad is a Chelsea fan and 2) this was waaaaaaaay before Chelsea got their money. My heroes were Kerry Dixon, Gordon Durie and Pat Nevin. I lasted up until Tore Andre Flo and decided I'd seen enough.

 

[Argyle Nutter]

As a marketing man, Peter Jones should not be criticising low attendances, but doing something proactive to attract more people through the gates.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

This for me it's far easier to blame the fans rather than look to resolve his own inadequacies. Still I suppose this equates to him to justifying his place on the board, after all he done sweet F A else.

If you listen to how he puts it on the video it's not criticism or blame, he's at pains to point out it's not a moan.

It came up in the context of a question about investment and it's a fair point to make. It has to be a two way street, an unspoken contract if you will. Fans (as a group) can't produce a list of investment demands without demonstrating a willingness to demonstrably support the club.

I'd wager it's the same thing they said in the boardroom in that crucial Hollowords period when the gates were going south too. It was a fair point then too.

X'y my point was that even though he said this is not a moan he then went on to blame the stay aways & asked regular fans to try & get them back, Its his job on the board to market the club yet as a Plymouth resident I see nothing to encourage fans to return to HP apart from apparently giving the odd discount to a student or two.

Im sorry but you can dress it up as much as you like but it was still bemoaning non attendees, even to the point of saying he would be disappointed if he did not see 7000 at the game as we had won the last 4 on the bounce, we may have won but the fare had been dire & that will not bring the crowds back. if we continue to play like Saturday then I'm confident crowds will rise. But through no effort from the Marketing director.

 

[pedro91]

There is no question that the club needs to market itself far more imaginatively, there are generations of potential fans who are currently MIA. It's suffered from the fact it was never able to reach a compromise with the DJM league regarding Saturday kick off times. I don't know if this has now been resolved but I'm certain this had a massive effect on attendances. I played football on a Saturday afternoon from the age of 11 until 16 and kick off times meant I could get to Home Park once in a blue moon. Obviously this meant I ended up drifting away and I even sported a Chelsea shirt* (God, this must be my most embarrassing post ever) for a few years. These are the years where you end up cementing your football loyalties and it was only chance that I ended up coming back to Argyle at all. There must be hundreds the same age as me who never made it back from the SKY wastelands. I always seemed ridiculous to me that the most football mad boys (the ones that played it) were excluded from watching their local team.

* I feel I must point out that this is mitigated by two factors. 1) my dad is a Chelsea fan and 2) this was waaaaaaaay before Chelsea got their money. My heroes were Kerry Dixon, Gordon Durie and Pat Nevin. I lasted up until Tore Andre Flo and decided I'd seen enough.

I thought DJM kick off times had been changed????

 

[Tyhee_Slim]

There is no question that the club needs to market itself far more imaginatively, there are generations of potential fans who are currently MIA. It's suffered from the fact it was never able to reach a compromise with the DJM league regarding Saturday kick off times. I don't know if this has now been resolved but I'm certain this had a massive effect on attendances. I played football on a Saturday afternoon from the age of 11 until 16 and kick off times meant I could get to Home Park once in a blue moon. Obviously this meant I ended up drifting away and I even sported a Chelsea shirt* (God, this must be my most embarrassing post ever) for a few years. These are the years where you end up cementing your football loyalties and it was only chance that I ended up coming back to Argyle at all. There must be hundreds the same age as me who never made it back from the SKY wastelands. I always seemed ridiculous to me that the most football mad boys (the ones that played it) were excluded from watching their local team.

* I feel I must point out that this is mitigated by two factors. 1) my dad is a Chelsea fan and 2) this was waaaaaaaay before Chelsea got their money. My heroes were Kerry Dixon, Gordon Durie and Pat Nevin. I lasted up until Tore Andre Flo and decided I'd seen enough.

Good shout that droly. Probably not the greatest of examples, but my local team, Mansfield, quite a few seasons back, probably twenty or more, decided to sponsor the local youth league but with the proviso that all games were played at 11am on Saturdays. Players were then admitted to Stags home matches at some special parent and child rate. It worked quite well for a while but, as is the case with football, it was never backed up by having a successful team which, ultimately, is what's required. With all due respect to Mansfield, at least Argyle do have the potential to push on develop.

If Argyle had done something like this in, say, the Holloway era, where the kids had genuinely good players that they could regard as heroes we may well have inspired a new generation of fans.

Of course, the ultimate draw is a successful team, but beyond that there is the 'hearts and minds' thing to be considered. People must be made to feel like they're part of the club and, on the other hand, the club needs to give the impression that it's part of the city or community - not just in some weasel worded PR statement sort of way, but by making its presence felt in real ways, and also by developing some sort of aura of confidence and ambition, something that historically it has never done. It may be too late of course, the 'same old bleddy Argo' image may be just too well established in the minds of the public, but it shouldn't stop the club from trying. If we fail to learn from the mistakes of the past then there's no one else to blame.

 

[DarkGreen]

Absolutely Graham. And hopefully with greater PCC involvement those aims are even better realised.

 

[loyal1970]

Nobody did moan about it Neil.

well clearly peter jones is moaning about it and does he pay to get in or is he on a free ticket.

 

[IJN]

No 'clearly' he didn't.

Someone on here has said he did.

If I say you owe me £30 does that make it a fact then?

 

[droly]

There is no question that the club needs to market itself far more imaginatively, there are generations of potential fans who are currently MIA. It's suffered from the fact it was never able to reach a compromise with the DJM league regarding Saturday kick off times. I don't know if this has now been resolved but I'm certain this had a massive effect on attendances. I played football on a Saturday afternoon from the age of 11 until 16 and kick off times meant I could get to Home Park once in a blue moon. Obviously this meant I ended up drifting away and I even sported a Chelsea shirt* (God, this must be my most embarrassing post ever) for a few years. These are the years where you end up cementing your football loyalties and it was only chance that I ended up coming back to Argyle at all. There must be hundreds the same age as me who never made it back from the SKY wastelands. I always seemed ridiculous to me that the most football mad boys (the ones that played it) were excluded from watching their local team.

* I feel I must point out that this is mitigated by two factors. 1) my dad is a Chelsea fan and 2) this was waaaaaaaay before Chelsea got their money. My heroes were Kerry Dixon, Gordon Durie and Pat Nevin. I lasted up until Tore Andre Flo and decided I'd seen enough.

I thought DJM kick off times had been changed????

As I said in my post, I didn't know whether or not it was still the case, if they have then it's definitely progress. I'd still like to see the club sponsor the local kids leagues as mentioned by Tyhee and it still doesn't change the fact that much of my generation at the very least will have grown up supporting sides they could watch on TV as they couldn't get along to see Argyle. Argyle need to be encouraging this lost generation back to Home Park, to swell the gates now but, more importantly, for the future. This is the generation with young families, boys and girls just getting into football and deciding where their allegiances lie. What are they going to do? Support a local team dad never takes them to see or support the team he watches on SKY tv of an afternoon? It's no use writing these people off as 'plastics' or 'glory supporters'. They have very understandable reasons for not turning up at Home Park week after week but, with a bit of imagination, some decent marketing and, God knows, maybe even some investment, we can get their kids pestering them to take them to the game every weekend rather than wasting their time on the vicarious thrills of Soccer Saturday.

 

[Tyhee_Slim]

No 'clearly' he didn't.

Someone on here has said he did.

If I say you owe me £30 does that make it a fact then?

Typical bleddy Janner. Thirty quid? Where's your ambition man, you should be looking for at least a grand.

 

[IJN]

Neil now lives in Yorkshire, he has taken up their ways.

Blood out of stone??

 

[Emu]

Neil now lives in Yorkshire, he has taken up their ways.

Blood out of stone??

He's moved to Yorkshire?
Ah, I thought the earth might have moved for him this morning.

 

[Tyhee_Slim]

The earthquake was nearer my place in North Notts. Didn't feel it at all here.

 

[Tyhee_Slim]

The earth tremor was nearer my place in North Notts. Didn't feel it at all here.

We've had them before. A few years back we had one that woke us up. My missus thought we were being burgled bor something, and I just said "Nah, it'll be an earthquake. Go back to sleep". She was a bit surprised at my lack of concern, but not as surprised as when the contents if one of our kitchen cabinets fell on her head the next morning after being 'shaken up' in the night.