1966 and all that

[MickyD]

A controversial view perhaps, but there is no way the whole of the ball was over the whole of the line. I've seen it so many times and I just can't convince myself it was in (not that I'd ever admit that to a German or Scot!).

Oh, I don't think that's controversial. Everybody knows it went only half way over the line!

The one thing that has always given me pause for thought is that Martin Peters was right there and could have easily put the rebound away to remove all doubt, but instead wheeled away in celebration.

Either he had really bad eyesight or the ball was over the line.

He had really bad eyesight, then - or, to be fair, pre-VAR eyesight - because it was nowhere near fully over the line. I'm sure Peters genuinely thought it was over the line, but he was wrong.

I've just looked at it again, and it actually wouldn't have been that easy for Peters to have knocked it in anyway. It bounced high, and there was a German defender right underneath it when it came down.

Edited: Roger Hunt - so it was!

 

[Pogleswoody]

I never understood that. Roger Hunt was a goal moocher. 99% of the time he (and most other strikers) would have knocked it in, or tried to. He just turned away. I thought that was weird 54 years ago!! :think:

 

[dunlop]

We'd have won again in 1970 if it wasn't for a certain goalkeeper. Never forgive - never forget.

Definitely, that 1970 team was fantastic, I think the crucial thing that gave the Germans the advantage was when Ramsey took off Bobby Charlton that allowed Beckenbauer the freedom to move forward.

 

[Herts Green]

Listened to a great interview a few years ago with Jack Charlton. He said that after a post match team drinking session he found himself on the central line with the World Cup in his arms travelling to a fan’s party in Leytonstone. He woke up next morning on their sofa, couldn’t find the cup. Very hungover he walked into the back garden where he met a next door neighbour who had looked after the cup for him. By quite a co-incidence the neighbour hailed from the next door village where Jack was born in Durham.

I love that story. Imagine being the neighbour and getting to look after the cup overnight. I dont think I would have slept - I would probably have just held it for hours and also practiced my trophy lifting celebration in the mirror!

 

[davie nine]

Imagine the controversy if he had disappeared with the Cup. Seems Jackie wouldn’t have known what happened to it.

 

[Quintrell Green]

A controversial view perhaps, but there is no way the whole of the ball was over the whole of the line. I've seen it so many times and I just can't convince myself it was in (not that I'd ever admit that to a German or Scot!).

BUT... Germany's late equaliser contained more than a slight hint of handball so it's all swings and roundabouts.

And Argentina basically bribed refs and fixed matches to win the WC in 78 so we've got nothing on them.

And scored goals with punches!

 

[Lundan Cabbie]

My late father once told me how his day went that day and how him and a mate went to the pub before the game but half an hour before kick-off, everyone was kicked out! No watching the game in pubs back then. Licensing laws of the day didn't allow continuous pint pulling throughout the afternoon. They had to go home to watch it on TV and then could return to the pub when it reopened at 5.30.

Can you imagine the youngsters of today being able to get their head around that one?

 

[jerryatricjanner]

We'd have won again in 1970 if it wasn't for a certain goalkeeper. Never forgive - never forget.

Whilst I agree it was a better eleven than that which won with home advantage 4 years earlier I don't think they would have beaten probably the greatest World Cup team ever had they overcome West Germany and then a very good Italian side in the semi final.

 

[MickyD]

We'd have won again in 1970 if it wasn't for a certain goalkeeper. Never forgive - never forget.

Whilst I agree it was a better eleven than that which won with home advantage 4 years earlier I don't think they would have beaten probably the greatest World Cup team ever had they overcome West Germany and then a very good Italian side in the semi final.

Not just that - devastated as I was at the time, not least by the nature of the quarter-final defeat, in retrospect I think it would have seemed like some kind of profound footballing sacrilege if England had got to the final and then somehow prevented Brazil from winning it.

Not that I would have cared too much at the time, mind...

You can't help but wonder, though - had England won it for the second time in a row, would they have become one of those nations who almost by right routinely appear in the semi-finals and the final, rather than possibly the worst serial under-achievers in World Cup and Euro history?

 

[Lundan Cabbie]

We'd have won again in 1970 if it wasn't for a certain goalkeeper. Never forgive - never forget.

Whilst I agree it was a better eleven than that which won with home advantage 4 years earlier I don't think they would have beaten probably the greatest World Cup team ever had they overcome West Germany and then a very good Italian side in the semi final.

Not just that - devastated as I was at the time, not least by the nature of the quarter-final defeat, in retrospect I think it would have seemed like some kind of profound footballing sacrilege if England had got to the final and then somehow prevented Brazil from winning it.

Not that I would have cared too much at the time, mind...

You can't help but wonder, though - had England won it for the second time in a row, would they have become one of those nations who almost by right routinely appear in the semi-finals and the final, rather than possibly the worst serial under-achievers in World Cup and Euro history?

Well we would have at least qualified for 1974 as holders. The 70's would certainly have been different internationally.

 

[demportdave]

We'd have won again in 1970 if it wasn't for a certain goalkeeper. Never forgive - never forget.

Maybe if Alf Ramsey hadn't taken Bobby Charlton off to save him for the Semi-final, which then allowed Beckenbauer the chance to move forward and be more of a threat...

As ever in football, there are always 'if onlys' and 'what ifs'.

If only there hadn't been a Russian Linesman at Wembley... I love the story of when his home town in Azbekistan put up a statue to commemorate him after he died, they got Hans Tilkowski to come and unveil it.

 

[MickyD]

We'd have won again in 1970 if it wasn't for a certain goalkeeper. Never forgive - never forget.

Whilst I agree it was a better eleven than that which won with home advantage 4 years earlier I don't think they would have beaten probably the greatest World Cup team ever had they overcome West Germany and then a very good Italian side in the semi final.

Not just that - devastated as I was at the time, not least by the nature of the quarter-final defeat, in retrospect I think it would have seemed like some kind of profound footballing sacrilege if England had got to the final and then somehow prevented Brazil from winning it.

Not that I would have cared too much at the time, mind...

You can't help but wonder, though - had England won it for the second time in a row, would they have become one of those nations who almost by right routinely appear in the semi-finals and the final, rather than possibly the worst serial under-achievers in World Cup and Euro history?

Well we would have at least qualified for 1974 as holders. The 70's would certainly have been different internationally.

I was thinking in particular of how the entire state of mind, of subsequent squads and the whole country, would have been profoundly different and more positive, rather than staggering under the crippling combined weight of always huge expectation and past crushing disappointment - and yes, for starters, automatic qualification for 74, on the back of two successive wins, would have made things very different!

Oh, and having beaten a country other than (West) Germany in 1970 would no doubt have helped a lot with the national psyche, too...

 

[fitz]

The National stadium was named

Tofiq Bəhramov adına Respublika Stadionu

after the linesman who was Azerbaijani.

The statue was a pilgrimage for England fans when they played there in qualifying.

 

[mervyn]

Seeing reference to Alf Ramsey reminds me of when I went to ‘an evening with Rodney’ (Rodney Marsh) event many years ago. Marsh explained what happened at his one England call-up under Sir Alf. Before the game, outlining his game plan, Ramsey explained, “ Rodney will start the game, bit I will probably pull him off at half time”. Marsh piped up “That’s very kind. We only get oranges at Man City”. He was ignored by Ramsey forever after.

 

[demportdave]

The National stadium was named

Tofiq Bəhramov adına Respublika Stadionu

after the linesman who was Azerbaijani.

The statue was a pilgrimage for England fans when they played there in qualifying.

Azbekistan / Azerbaijani, Potato / Potato.
Still a great idea too get Tilkowski to come and unveil that statue. The last time he spoke to that Lino he was effing and jeffing at him nearly 40 years before.

Of course the ball crossed the line, never in doubt. Serves them right for invading Russia.