Free agents to come

[X Isle]

so we have gone from not paying a fee for a player, to taking players on loan, to taking free agents, what is next ? getting players out of retirement ?

Both Taylor and Diagouraga were free agents, as is Church so what is the issue with signing a free agent?

Nothing , just shows how far we have fallen

How far we have fallen from the bottom of league 2 to the middle of league 1?

I meant regarding monies available, we paid 300k ,400k, and 500k for players only 10/12 years ago

You do know that we went into administration with debts of £17,000,000 just afterwards?

Ever stopped to wonder If there is some sort of coincidence there?

You wouldn't mind if they had been any good but Steve MacLean was pish.

I fought tooth and nail in the build up to that period on this very message board against those who lined up to tell Argyle to 'spend spend spend'. There are (what should be) clear and obvious dangers to spending money we don't have. A warning from history is required...

I have resisted engaging on the 'brentwallet' thread because I know that when I go I will go straight for the throat and with "great vengeance and furious anger". Why? Because our administration period for me can be traced right back to the first chump who coined the phrase "Staplewallet".

From small acorns great oaks grow... or in that case 'from small chugnuts doth masses of poo flow'. A few 'witty' souls turned their frustration with a perceived lack of progress (in fact, as now, they were just massively impatient and wanted someone else to bankroll Argyle to success for them) started up the finger pointing around money invested in the team.

Up to that point Argyle had been going great guns whilst not breaking the bank. But a few turned into several, several turned into many and before you knew it the Argyle board were faced with huge clarion calls to 'spend spend spend'. Trouble was Argyle didn't have money to spend, gates started dropping and Argyle started to panic. Players were bought that they couldn't afford and as bills went up and gates went down they just threw good money after bad.

Upshot, despite increasingly desperate efforts to get new money in, culminating in the NWO debacle Argyle nearly ceased to exist.

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER again... or so you would have thought.

But no, I see now the same small seeds of accusation being levelled as before. Fan pressure can, once the snowball starts rolling, become irresistible to try and placate. It only takes a small overspend to kick off the process of good money going after bad.

Argyle now is being run as a self sufficient entity. I want it to remain that way, we should ALL want it to remain that way. No-one should want blood on their hands for Argyle's death because they started a movement of bitter, selfish, impatient name calling and conspiracy theory peddling that ended in liquidation.

Am I being over dramatic here? No. I saw it coming, I tried to stop it before, but it happened, it was all too real and scared the living pooh out of all of us. You can see therefore why history beginning to repeat itself might be cause for alarm now.

Stop this bullsh1t NOW. It does grow and it does end in abject humiliation and possible consignment to the annals of history.

How can you possibly bemoan the fact that we no longer spend hundreds of thousands of pounds on player transfer fees when that very act nearly caused us to go to the wall? And this isn't ancient history peeps, we can all remember it.

Unbeferkinlievable :facepalm:

 

[Mdgreener]

so we have gone from not paying a fee for a player, to taking players on loan, to taking free agents, what is next ? getting players out of retirement ?

Both Taylor and Diagouraga were free agents, as is Church so what is the issue with signing a free agent?

Nothing , just shows how far we have fallen

How far we have fallen from the bottom of league 2 to the middle of league 1?

I meant regarding monies available, we paid 300k ,400k, and 500k for players only 10/12 years ago

You do know that we went into administration with debts of £17,000,000 just afterwards?

Ever stopped to wonder If there is some sort of coincidence there?

You wouldn't mind if they had been any good but Steve MacLean was pish.

I fought tooth and nail in the build up to that period on this very message board against those who lined up to tell Argyle to 'spend spend spend'. There are (what should be) clear and obvious dangers to spending money we don't have. A warning from history is required...

I have resisted engaging on the 'brentwallet' thread because I know that when I go I will go straight for the throat and with "great vengeance and furious anger". Why? Because our administration period for me can be traced right back to the first chump who coined the phrase "Staplewallet".

From small acorns great oaks grow... or in that case 'from small chugnuts doth masses of poo flow'. A few 'witty' souls turned their frustration with a perceived lack of progress (in fact, as now, they were just massively impatient and wanted someone else to bankroll Argyle to success for them) started up the finger pointing around money invested in the team.

Up to that point Argyle had been going great guns whilst not breaking the bank. But a few turned into several, several turned into many and before you knew it the Argyle board were faced with huge clarion calls to 'spend spend spend'. Trouble was Argyle didn't have money to spend, gates started dropping and Argyle started to panic. Players were bought that they couldn't afford and as bills went up and gates went down they just threw good money after bad.

Upshot, despite increasingly desperate efforts to get new money in, culminating in the NWO debacle Argyle nearly ceased to exist.

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER again... or so you would have thought.

But no, I see now the same small seeds of accusation being levelled as before. Fan pressure can, once the snowball starts rolling, become irresistible to try and placate. It only takes a small overspend to kick off the process of good money going after bad.

Argyle now is being run as a self sufficient entity. I want it to remain that way, we should ALL want it to remain that way. No-one should want blood on their hands for Argyle's death because they started a movement of bitter, selfish, impatient name calling and conspiracy theory peddling that ended in liquidation.

Am I being over dramatic here? No. I saw it coming, I tried to stop it before, but it happened, it was all too real and scared the living pooh out of all of us. You can see therefore why history beginning to repeat itself might be cause for alarm now.

Stop this bullsh1t NOW. It does grow and it does end in abject humiliation and possible consignment to the annals of history.

How can you possibly bemoan the fact that we no longer spend hundreds of thousands of pounds on player transfer fees when that very act nearly caused us to go to the wall? And this isn't ancient history peeps, we can all remember it.

Unbeferkinlievable :facepalm:

:clap: amen

 

[dennis the menace]

Well said X Isle. Some people have short memories.

Those days of near extinction were awful to experience.

 

[Guiri Green]

What amuses me is the train of thought on other sites and media that because of Brents perceived lack of investment in funds for the team, constantly bemoaning his live within our means approach, we'd be better off if we had collapsed, gone out of business and reformed as a new Club.

How someone could moan about lack of spending from a solvent, sustainable, slowly improving L1 Club with funds yet think one without a Ground, League to play in or pot to pi55 is good and would then attract the best players and climb the Leagues is a bit beyond me. Everythings easy on paper or keyboards it seems.

 

[vibratingspider]

What amuses me is the train of thought on other sites and media that because of Brents perceived lack of investment in funds for the team, constantly bemoaning his live within our means approach, we'd be better off if we had collapsed, gone out of business and reformed as a new Club.

How someone could moan about lack of spending from a solvent, sustainable, slowly improving L1 Club with funds yet think one without a Ground, League to play in or pot to pi55 is good and would then attract the best players and climb the Leagues is a bit beyond me. Everythings easy on paper or keyboards it seems.

Why does it "amuse" you? It might "concern" you, but "amuse"? That's surely the wrong turn of phrase altogether, unless you're as supercilious as you seem.

 

[Mork]

so we have gone from not paying a fee for a player, to taking players on loan, to taking free agents, what is next ? getting players out of retirement ?

Both Taylor and Diagouraga were free agents, as is Church so what is the issue with signing a free agent?

Nothing , just shows how far we have fallen

How far we have fallen from the bottom of league 2 to the middle of league 1?

I meant regarding monies available, we paid 300k ,400k, and 500k for players only 10/12 years ago

You do know that we went into administration with debts of £17,000,000 just afterwards?

Ever stopped to wonder If there is some sort of coincidence there?

You wouldn't mind if they had been any good but Steve MacLean was pish.

I fought tooth and nail in the build up to that period on this very message board against those who lined up to tell Argyle to 'spend spend spend'. There are (what should be) clear and obvious dangers to spending money we don't have. A warning from history is required...

I have resisted engaging on the 'brentwallet' thread because I know that when I go I will go straight for the throat and with "great vengeance and furious anger". Why? Because our administration period for me can be traced right back to the first chump who coined the phrase "Staplewallet".

From small acorns great oaks grow... or in that case 'from small chugnuts doth masses of poo flow'. A few 'witty' souls turned their frustration with a perceived lack of progress (in fact, as now, they were just massively impatient and wanted someone else to bankroll Argyle to success for them) started up the finger pointing around money invested in the team.

Up to that point Argyle had been going great guns whilst not breaking the bank. But a few turned into several, several turned into many and before you knew it the Argyle board were faced with huge clarion calls to 'spend spend spend'. Trouble was Argyle didn't have money to spend, gates started dropping and Argyle started to panic. Players were bought that they couldn't afford and as bills went up and gates went down they just threw good money after bad.

Upshot, despite increasingly desperate efforts to get new money in, culminating in the NWO debacle Argyle nearly ceased to exist.

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER again... or so you would have thought.

But no, I see now the same small seeds of accusation being levelled as before. Fan pressure can, once the snowball starts rolling, become irresistible to try and placate. It only takes a small overspend to kick off the process of good money going after bad.

Argyle now is being run as a self sufficient entity. I want it to remain that way, we should ALL want it to remain that way. No-one should want blood on their hands for Argyle's death because they started a movement of bitter, selfish, impatient name calling and conspiracy theory peddling that ended in liquidation.

Am I being over dramatic here? No. I saw it coming, I tried to stop it before, but it happened, it was all too real and scared the living pooh out of all of us. You can see therefore why history beginning to repeat itself might be cause for alarm now.

Stop this bullsh1t NOW. It does grow and it does end in abject humiliation and possible consignment to the annals of history.

How can you possibly bemoan the fact that we no longer spend hundreds of thousands of pounds on player transfer fees when that very act nearly caused us to go to the wall? And this isn't ancient history peeps, we can all remember it.

Unbeferkinlievable :facepalm:

You seriously blaming the fans for pressuring previous boards to spend money?
Wake up! Fans will always call for this & that, it’s down to those in charge. No excuses!

 

[OwenJones]

You seriously blaming the fans for pressuring previous boards to spend money?
Wake up! Fans will always call for this & that, it’s down to those in charge. No excuses!

Not really, he's saying to the impatient and gung-ho fans (that feel entitled to have their club spent more than they can afford despite nearly going bust as a result of that attitude in recent times) to rethink their expectations. Rightly so.

 

[ealinggreen]

so we have gone from not paying a fee for a player, to taking players on loan, to taking free agents, what is next ? getting players out of retirement ?

Both Taylor and Diagouraga were free agents, as is Church so what is the issue with signing a free agent?

Nothing , just shows how far we have fallen

How far we have fallen from the bottom of league 2 to the middle of league 1?

I meant regarding monies available, we paid 300k ,400k, and 500k for players only 10/12 years ago

You do know that we went into administration with debts of £17,000,000 just afterwards?

Ever stopped to wonder If there is some sort of coincidence there?

You wouldn't mind if they had been any good but Steve MacLean was pish.

I fought tooth and nail in the build up to that period on this very message board against those who lined up to tell Argyle to 'spend spend spend'. There are (what should be) clear and obvious dangers to spending money we don't have. A warning from history is required...

I have resisted engaging on the 'brentwallet' thread because I know that when I go I will go straight for the throat and with "great vengeance and furious anger". Why? Because our administration period for me can be traced right back to the first chump who coined the phrase "Staplewallet".

From small acorns great oaks grow... or in that case 'from small chugnuts doth masses of poo flow'. A few 'witty' souls turned their frustration with a perceived lack of progress (in fact, as now, they were just massively impatient and wanted someone else to bankroll Argyle to success for them) started up the finger pointing around money invested in the team.

Up to that point Argyle had been going great guns whilst not breaking the bank. But a few turned into several, several turned into many and before you knew it the Argyle board were faced with huge clarion calls to 'spend spend spend'. Trouble was Argyle didn't have money to spend, gates started dropping and Argyle started to panic. Players were bought that they couldn't afford and as bills went up and gates went down they just threw good money after bad.

Upshot, despite increasingly desperate efforts to get new money in, culminating in the NWO debacle Argyle nearly ceased to exist.

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER again... or so you would have thought.

But no, I see now the same small seeds of accusation being levelled as before. Fan pressure can, once the snowball starts rolling, become irresistible to try and placate. It only takes a small overspend to kick off the process of good money going after bad.

Argyle now is being run as a self sufficient entity. I want it to remain that way, we should ALL want it to remain that way. No-one should want blood on their hands for Argyle's death because they started a movement of bitter, selfish, impatient name calling and conspiracy theory peddling that ended in liquidation.

Am I being over dramatic here? No. I saw it coming, I tried to stop it before, but it happened, it was all too real and scared the living pooh out of all of us. You can see therefore why history beginning to repeat itself might be cause for alarm now.

Stop this bullsh1t NOW. It does grow and it does end in abject humiliation and possible consignment to the annals of history.

How can you possibly bemoan the fact that we no longer spend hundreds of thousands of pounds on player transfer fees when that very act nearly caused us to go to the wall? And this isn't ancient history peeps, we can all remember it.

Unbeferkinlievable :facepalm:

Where does 17 million come from?

 

[Stuart House]

Whilst I completely agree with xisle that we shouldn't spend more than we have - and I'm sure 99% of others on here do as well.

BUT

What people seem to think is not happening (and I don't have any inclination of how true this is or not) is that we are not spending what we DO HAVE.

Now whether this is a misconception or a reality it is something Brent as majority share holder has to address.

 

[PureGreen]

Both Taylor and Diagouraga were free agents, as is Church so what is the issue with signing a free agent?

Nothing , just shows how far we have fallen

How far we have fallen from the bottom of league 2 to the middle of league 1?

I meant regarding monies available, we paid 300k ,400k, and 500k for players only 10/12 years ago

You do know that we went into administration with debts of £17,000,000 just afterwards?

Ever stopped to wonder If there is some sort of coincidence there?

You wouldn't mind if they had been any good but Steve MacLean was pish.

I fought tooth and nail in the build up to that period on this very message board against those who lined up to tell Argyle to 'spend spend spend'. There are (what should be) clear and obvious dangers to spending money we don't have. A warning from history is required...

I have resisted engaging on the 'brentwallet' thread because I know that when I go I will go straight for the throat and with "great vengeance and furious anger". Why? Because our administration period for me can be traced right back to the first chump who coined the phrase "Staplewallet".

From small acorns great oaks grow... or in that case 'from small chugnuts doth masses of poo flow'. A few 'witty' souls turned their frustration with a perceived lack of progress (in fact, as now, they were just massively impatient and wanted someone else to bankroll Argyle to success for them) started up the finger pointing around money invested in the team.

Up to that point Argyle had been going great guns whilst not breaking the bank. But a few turned into several, several turned into many and before you knew it the Argyle board were faced with huge clarion calls to 'spend spend spend'. Trouble was Argyle didn't have money to spend, gates started dropping and Argyle started to panic. Players were bought that they couldn't afford and as bills went up and gates went down they just threw good money after bad.

Upshot, despite increasingly desperate efforts to get new money in, culminating in the NWO debacle Argyle nearly ceased to exist.

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER again... or so you would have thought.

But no, I see now the same small seeds of accusation being levelled as before. Fan pressure can, once the snowball starts rolling, become irresistible to try and placate. It only takes a small overspend to kick off the process of good money going after bad.

Argyle now is being run as a self sufficient entity. I want it to remain that way, we should ALL want it to remain that way. No-one should want blood on their hands for Argyle's death because they started a movement of bitter, selfish, impatient name calling and conspiracy theory peddling that ended in liquidation.

Am I being over dramatic here? No. I saw it coming, I tried to stop it before, but it happened, it was all too real and scared the living pooh out of all of us. You can see therefore why history beginning to repeat itself might be cause for alarm now.

Stop this bullsh1t NOW. It does grow and it does end in abject humiliation and possible consignment to the annals of history.

How can you possibly bemoan the fact that we no longer spend hundreds of thousands of pounds on player transfer fees when that very act nearly caused us to go to the wall? And this isn't ancient history peeps, we can all remember it.

Unbeferkinlievable :facepalm:

Where does 17 million come from?

I gotta say, it's always the same people that reply to a well thought out and totally true post that will completely ignore the whole point of the post and try to pick on one line in the whole thing..

Even if we just continue to live prudently and all the overspending clubs go to the wall, resulting in us moving up the league I'd be happy, because we are living within our means!

How many of you run your household bills with twice as much going out than in, knowing you can't pay the debt accruing!??

 

[ealinggreen]

What are you on about same people,it was a simple question where does 17 million come from.I have never heard of that figure and I like facts.What same people posts have I made ? clever dick.

 

[Biggs]

£17m is the generally accepted figure for our debt prior to administration. If you Google 'Plymouth Argyle debt £17m' there are a whole host of sources.

The League One outfit entered administration in March with debts of over £17m, divided between more than 240 unsecured creditors.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/13313804

More detail on VitalFootball...

Guilfoyle is proposing a Company Voluntary Arrangement to bring Argyle out of administration and into new ownership and has published a list of creditors with a debt of £12,958,834 and a deficiency of nearly £15.5 million with total debt likely to reach £17 million!

http://www.plymouth.vitalfootball.co.uk ... z55wk3YPgo

 

[ealinggreen]

thanks.

 

[Jimmytheoneo]

Whilst I completely agree with xisle that we shouldn't spend more than we have - and I'm sure 99% of others on here do as well.

BUT

What people seem to think is not happening (and I don't have any inclination of how true this is or not) is that we are not spending what we DO HAVE.

Now weather this is a misconception or a reality it is something Brent as majority share holder has to address.

What's the weather got to do with it?

 

[X Isle]

What are you on about same people,it was a simple question where does 17 million come from.I have never heard of that figure and I like facts.What same people posts have I made ? clever dick.

It is an age old trick Ealing, selective quoting and nit picking, ignoring the big picture and focusing on the small one.

Whether that was your intention or not, only you can say, and you have. Fair enough.

To answer your question £17m was the widely quoted estimated total liability in administration. It turns out it was actually a conservative estimate. Q8 in the link below from the board shows the total was actually "over £20m" :shock:

I apologise for getting my facts wrong but it doesn't undermine the point, it rather strengthens it :wink:

https://www.pafc.co.uk/news/2016/august ... tatement-/

Many couldn't figure out where all this money went. I would venture to suggest that is born of the same ignorance that can't wok out where the 'Liverpool/Purrington/Hourihane/etc' money has gone this time round.

Fag packet maths can add up incoming revenue but the size of fag packet required to list all the boring and unheralded bills going out, for all the mundane requirements of a football club, not least wages, ancillary fees, tax, NI relating to playing staff would need to accommodate fags only Godzilla could smoke.

If we ignore what happened before, it WILL happen again. I am 100% supportive of self sufficiency, I was then and I can't begin to imagine why everyone else isn't now.