Time wasting, spoiling, moving the ball etc. | Page 2 | PASOTI
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Time wasting, spoiling, moving the ball etc.

Jan 17, 2017
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L G":2r4csrqy said:
Whatever happened to when an opposition player stood in front of the ball to stop a free kick being taken quickly, only for our player to boot the ball against said player (preferably in his face or groin) thus getting Mr K.Nob booked? :problem:

This confused me on Saturday, we had a free kick, Bradford player stood roughly 6 yds away, didn't move, ref did nothing and we ended up passing back to the defence rather than whipping it forward.

Granted the ref had no control over this rubbish on Saturday but surely we should have been smart and got him booked.
 

Mark58

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After having seen consecutive games at Home Park (Oxford and Bradford) where the away team spent most of its time wasting it (time, that is) I have finally reached the end of my tether and am in dire need of a good old fashioned rant. Now, I know that what follows is, in itself, probably a complete waste of time as very little is likely to come of it but in the spirit of written catharsis I will spout on.

Time wasting in the EFL (I can’t speak for other leagues/countries as I only concern myself with Argyle) seems to have become standard in recent years. I am not naive enough to believe that it is purely a modern phenomenon. Indeed, I can well remember the old-style tactics before goalkeepers were prevented from picking up the ball on a back pass. That was a charter for time-wasters. Keeper collects a loose ball and rolls it out to left back, left back passes it back to keeper who then rolls it out to right back, right back passes it back to keeper who then… well, you get the drift. The abolition of the ‘back pass’ certainly helped speed up and maintain the flow of the game and is to be appreciated. As long as the game is based on a period of time (rather than other ‘points target’ sports, such as tennis) the wasting of time to gain an advantage is going to be at the forefront of the mind. Indeed, some exponents of the beautiful game have turned time wasting into an art form - refer to the Wycombe Wanderers website for affordably priced master classes in the same.

At this stage I should point out that I am not against masterful ‘game management’ techniques to run the clock down - such as actually passing the ball around and preventing your opponents possession and even, at a push, the ‘take it to the corner flag’ scenario. These are valid methods of running the clock down with the ball in play and require no little degree of actual footballing skill and technique. No, it is the cynical time wasting involving a delayed reintroduction of the ball once the game has stopped (i.e. at throw-ins, goal kicks, corners, free kicks and, indeed, goals) that gets on my wick. So, for want of anything better to do (and I can already hear the shouts of ‘sad git!’ and ‘get a life!’) I thought I would see exactly how much time was taken up last Saturday afternoon when the ball was out of play. To do this I watched the full match on iFollow and, using the clock on the top left hand of the screen, made a note of the number of seconds (and sometimes minutes!) from when the ball went out of play until play was restarted. I have to admit that I could only keep this up for the first half (I lost the will to live after that…) but even the stats for a full half of the match were something to consider. The following findings may or may not surprise you - they certainly surprised me!

There were 24 throw-ins in the first half - 11 for Bradford and 13 for Argyle. This resulted in 4 minutes 55 seconds of delay. It won’t come as a surprise to learn that even though Argyle had two more throw-ins than Bradford the latter accounted for a higher delay factor.

There were 10 goal kicks, only ONE of which was award to Argyle (that gives some indication of our dominance in first-half forward play on Saturday, notwithstanding the calamitous defending). A total of 5 minutes 2 seconds were lost to the game.

Six corners (4 for Argyle, 2 for Bradford) accounted for another 2 minutes 23 seconds.

Free kicks totalled 12 - 7 awarded against Bradford (‘dirty northern b*stards!!’) and 5 against Argyle. This frittered away another 5 minutes 58 seconds (that included a booking for that heinously violent thug of a player - Joel Grant…)

And finally, the goals. I don’t begrudge ANY team a good old fashioned goal celebration but, like everything in life, there are limits. Bradford’s first ate up 57 seconds until Argyle kicked off again. Argyle’s was a more modest 35 seconds (only to be expected, perhaps, as the home team is usually setting the tempo for the game). When Bradford got their second they just fell short of one full minute to get back into position for the kick off - it was 59 seconds.

In total, therefore, the ball was out of play during the first half for 20 minutes and 49 seconds. The referee added on a laughable one whole minute for what he considered to be unwarranted delays and actually blew his whistle on 46 minutes 18 seconds. That means that out of a complete half of Argyle vs Bradford the players were only physically running around and competing for a little over 25 minutes. Now, I’m not suggesting that the players are shirking (I wouldn’t manage FIVE minutes at that level!) but the paying public aren’t exactly getting value for money if actual football only comprises about half of the admission ticket. But that’s not my point.

This is all about time-wasting, gamesmanship, cheating - call it what you will. As things stand the only recourse the match official has to stamp out the blatant time waster is to caution him (ungentlemanly conduct?) but I’ve just given up trying to remember how many refs I have seen over the years actually do anything other than to wave their arms around when, say, a keeper spends an eternity forensically examining the ball before putting it down for a goal kick, only to repeat the action AND then kick imaginary mud off his boots on his goal post. Yes, you will get the occasional booking of a player when the ref’s patience finally cracks but this is often in the dying stages of a game and by then the damage has been done. But, shouldn’t the ref ‘stop his watch’ and extend the half commensurately? I hear you say. I think the ONE MINUTE added time on Saturday's first half scuppers that supposition.

Let’s face it, however unpalatable to the purist, every professional footballer (and probably most amateur ones) is going to try to ‘push the envelope’ to achieve a winning outcome and if time wasting helps then they will do it. Oxford did it, Bradford did it, I’ve seen Argyle do it and, of course, Wycombe invented it (probably very untrue and unfair but it always makes me feel better to have a go at them…) How to prevent it (in the absence of wishy-washy, incompetent refereeing)? Well, Sam Jones hit this one on the head (thanks, Sam!) in his comment on the ‘Away Team Goal Celebrations” thread :

Time keeping should now be taken away from the referees as they never allow enough.
TBH I'd rather there be a running clock that is stopped everytime the ball is out of play and the "in game" time reduced to say 75 mins.
We would see a lot more football on the pitch and these antics would not matter in the slightest.

I would strongly second this (it works in basketball and American football) but in view of my ‘back of a fag packet’ research I would reduce the actual playing time to half an hour each way. When you then allow for the 20-25 minutes or so of nothingness each half you end up with roughly the same time for ‘the match experience’. And if the players can't see an advantage in delaying, say, a throw, they won't do it. The referee would still have the option of cautioning a player if he felt that they were 'playing for time' (to try and disrupt the flow of the game) the same as in tennis.

I am sure that there are more holes in my suggestion than a colander (not least of which that it has more chance of happening than Mrs May getting a Christmas card from every M.P in the House of Commons) but I look forward to your views.
 
Nov 30, 2010
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The game needs to evolve but the authorities are very protective of it understandably to a degree.

It sounds a radical change but in reality its common sense and relieving some of the burden off the referee.
It doesn't change the dynamics of the game itself just the timing.

I'm sure there was one game recently reported as having only 39 minutes out of the 90 with the ball in play such is the extent of the breaks in play, stoppages and time wasting etc...

Anything to stop some of the gamesmanship that's crept into the game would be welcomed because more and more of these tactics/black arts have been employed now.

Another one that get's my goat is players faking injury to break up the flow/momentum of a team. The players should be immediately stretchered off to save us all waiting around for 2 minutes for them to be treated, limp off the pitch and then immediately sprint back on.

You would like to think a committee has been formed to discuss all these issues and start thinking of innovative and simple solutions to stop the game from be RUINED.

Other games have evolved eg tennis appeals, rugby rolling injury subs and sin bins etc... but sadly football is still stuck in the dark ages and I have to say is actually going downhill IMHO
 
Aug 13, 2009
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We have had this thread many times.
I agree with you both. Stop the clock whenever the ball is not in play.
It eliminates any time-wasting/gamesmanship at a stroke.

However you will get people complaining that they will miss their bus home!
 
Apr 9, 2011
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Football needs to take a leaf out of Rugby's book they seem to manage timeing ok. Oh sorry our great game is run by boring old f*rts who dont/wont want change
 

Biggs

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It's just simply not workable. For a start, it's an 'issue' behind way more important things like financial inequality, greed, agent influence, grass roots coaching etc etc.

To be honest, for me I'm not really bothered and it seems like something only a losing team complains about. Ultimately you need to take your chances and not give an opposing team the opportunity to use these sort of tactics, which you do through keeping the ball and scoring goals. Gamesmanship didn't make us concede three against Bradford.

Practically speaking though, it means games would be completely different lengths which alone makes it a non-starter, especially for televised games. Some games would last two hours, some would last three or four. So you'd be completely transforming football as we know it and robbing fans of classic moments (like Jimmy Glass, or the Aguero goal when United thought they'd won the league) for quite an unnecessary reason.

There has to be a standardised match length for various reasons, and in international tournaments the last group game is actually set up so they end at the same time. The answer could lie in stricter punishments or VAR, where players can be instantly punished for cheating, but it doesn't lie in completely ripping up 100-year-old timing conventions that are standardised all over the planet.
 

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phil-thefluter24":1svajnih said:
Football needs to take a leaf out of Rugby's book they seem to manage timeing ok. Oh sorry our great game is run by boring old f*rts who dont/wont want change

Rugby is constantly changing because it has to evolve or die. It's not as good a sport a football and about 1/1000th as popular globally.

The core sport and rules of football (not all the crap around it like greed, financial inequality and cheating) is near-perfect and don't need change, which is why it's an unprecedented global phenomenon.
 

Tom Cobbley

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I am basically in favour of the American Football model of stopping the clock, I can see some problems with that and I fear as in American Football some money grabbing TV exec or Efl bod will have stoppages when the ball goes out for TV adverts to boost revenue in all live games, devaluing the game even further. When you go to an American Football game you see the players standing around waiting for the nod from the sidelines. For the spectators at the game its not good. Also its difficult to build momentum, American Football is essentially a series of set plays, football is totally different. Anyway "GO PACK GO"
 

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An issue with stopping to clock is that teams will be able to slow the game down and hold up play, enabling them to get back in position for a free kick without risk of the ref intervening.

I’d like the problem to be solved by the refs growing some balls and start clamping down on the gamesmanship.
 
Sep 6, 2006
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Biggs":tyto8psu said:
phil-thefluter24":tyto8psu said:
Football needs to take a leaf out of Rugby's book they seem to manage timeing ok. Oh sorry our great game is run by boring old f*rts who dont/wont want change

Rugby is constantly changing because it has to evolve or die. It's not as good a sport a football and about 1/1000th as popular globally.

The core sport and rules of football (not all the crap around it like greed, financial inequality and cheating) is near-perfect and don't need change, which is why it's an unprecedented global phenomenon.


'Rugby is not as good a sport as football'! What is that supposed to mean?
 

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It means what it says. In terms of the core game and set of rules itself, the simplicity, skill, flexibility, inclusiveness, capacity for magical moments etc etc in football is unsurpassed.

There's a reason (along with various historical and societal factors, obviously) football is a huge global phenomenon and rugby is a relatively minor sport.

I assume on a football forum, not many people would disagree with that, but I'm probably wrong!
 

Mark58

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Biggs":366uo2e7 said:
It means what it says. In terms of the core game and set of rules itself, the simplicity, skill, flexibility, inclusiveness, capacity for magical moments etc etc in football is unsurpassed.

There's a reason (along with various historical and societal factors, obviously) football is a huge global phenomenon and rugby is a relatively minor sport.

I assume on a football forum, not many people would disagree with that, but I'm probably wrong!

I'm right with you there! I just don't 'get' rugby - but I have to be careful in case we go off topic...
 
Aug 2, 2011
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Biggs":17dxvovt said:
phil-thefluter24":17dxvovt said:
Football needs to take a leaf out of Rugby's book they seem to manage timeing ok. Oh sorry our great game is run by boring old f*rts who dont/wont want change

Rugby is constantly changing because it has to evolve or die. It's not as good a sport a football and about 1/1000th as popular globally.

The core sport and rules of football (not all the crap around it like greed, financial inequality and cheating) is near-perfect and don't need change, which is why it's an unprecedented global phenomenon.

Well I have read some stupid posts on here but that really takes the biscuit. "Football is near perfect". Grossly over paid prima donnas, corrupt agents and transfer dealings, cheating players over injuries and diving, billions of pounds hoarded within the top echelons of the game to the detriment of teams in the lower leagues, clubs milking the new season kit rip off every season, pathetic time wasting, top premier club players earning more in a week than the transfer budget of most l2 clubs, parachute payments to ensure the relegated have an enormous advantage over the rest of the league they have sunk to, on going issues relating to racial abuse, fans still believing that throwing firecrackers is fine not to mention fans screaming the c word at a game - Argyle take note. Just a few points that make football a near perfect sport.
 

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Well said Presto about one of the best posts this site has seen in years.
You can add supposedly respected 60 year old men shouting racial abuse that should see you arrested thinking they are safe.

Football has become lazy because those in authority are more interested in looking after number one than the paying public (much like the current government - but that's a different story). The tide will one day turn. Liverpool one the pinnacle of working man's club is pricing it's true historical supporters out of the game in order to chase more money. Now this is slightly off topic but it shows the contempt that we as supporters are held in.

We all want a true spectacle that gets our pulses racing and leaves us wanting more. Well apart from the recent North London derby I haven't seen or felt that much from football recently. Watching people who aren't hurt get pretend treatment for 3 minutes is not what I pay my money for.

Football needs to look at the time wasting subject soon. As it will have an affect.
 

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Presto, you appear not to have read my post. Specifically the bit where I said ‘NOT all the crap around it like greed, financial inequality and cheating’ that you’ve gone on to list :lol:

The points made in the last two posts are exactly the point. There are so many problems in football, the core rules, timings and sport itself are the last things that need mass rejigging. The rules need enforcing with more discipline, not changing altogether.

Though Voice of Reason, you haven’t had your pulse racing and been left wanting more from football recently? Did you miss the World Cup?