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While Plymouth sleeps...
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Army green":vzcnqz0x said:
We averaged over 10k last season when our ground wasn’t a building site, I think it’s fair to say we would have had similar this season were it not for the redevelopment reducing capacity (and appeal)
Exactly ...last season (in League 1) we averaged 10,400. The previous seasons were in league 2.
It ‘jumped’ by less than 1k. The facts are the facts.
In the championship a good average would be 15-16k and even that would fluctuate.
Go back decades, you’ll find mid-high 20k for a few games but then you’ll find huge gates at games in obscure places, different times. You’ll see 100k> at FA cup finals....days are long gone.
In the championship a good average would be 15-16k and even that would fluctuate.
Go back decades, you’ll find mid-high 20k for a few games but then you’ll find huge gates at games in obscure places, different times. You’ll see 100k> at FA cup finals....days are long gone.
JannerinCardiff":88emvpru said:
A lot more to do with having a poor season than reduced capacity seeing as probably only 1 game could have sold more.
In the 1930s gates totalled 47m across leagues by the time of 1960s this was down to 27m
After 1990 and all seater stadia this is way, way down and football had lost its appeal to swathes of society, today the appeal is the Premier league and the Sky generation. Within the decade you’ll be able to buy a TV season ticket for your ‘Premier’ team in the same way you can do so in Italy for Serie A.
Attendances are no longer the revenue streams they were, today it’s about decent pastries and traditional ales. Non-match day conferences and seminars
After 1990 and all seater stadia this is way, way down and football had lost its appeal to swathes of society, today the appeal is the Premier league and the Sky generation. Within the decade you’ll be able to buy a TV season ticket for your ‘Premier’ team in the same way you can do so in Italy for Serie A.
Attendances are no longer the revenue streams they were, today it’s about decent pastries and traditional ales. Non-match day conferences and seminars
Shankster":3omsf5rt said:
Exactly. Attendances are increasing irrelevant. Do people think that Spurs developed White Hart Lane to get more people in or to maximise revenue of those there?
Bournemouth capacity is 11329. That should tell you everything you need to know.
To put this debate to bed,
As many contributors to this thread have pointed out, clubs like Norwich etc. have tasted top flight football through having the push from there club to achieve it. As a result, despite being in the championship they can still pull in 25k+ crowds. They simply would not have been able to do that if they did not reach the premier league in the first place which was down to building towards the possibility of being a premier league club, which we are not doing.
The fact we are building a 18,000 seater (closer to 16,000 with segregation) shows no intention of believing we can reach the top flight. As a result, we will stay in league 1, possibly reach the championship (while not being able to compete there) and never realise the premier league potential we have as a club as many other clubs smaller than us have achieved. The fact many are blind to this, and simply accept 'we do not have a chance' is something i find incredibly dissapointing and well, deeply frustrating. Possibly the lack of ambition and push for success is a general way of thinking amongst many in the south west? When a Sunderland fan on this thread is even pointing this out, maybe you should listen?
Zoo
As many contributors to this thread have pointed out, clubs like Norwich etc. have tasted top flight football through having the push from there club to achieve it. As a result, despite being in the championship they can still pull in 25k+ crowds. They simply would not have been able to do that if they did not reach the premier league in the first place which was down to building towards the possibility of being a premier league club, which we are not doing.
The fact we are building a 18,000 seater (closer to 16,000 with segregation) shows no intention of believing we can reach the top flight. As a result, we will stay in league 1, possibly reach the championship (while not being able to compete there) and never realise the premier league potential we have as a club as many other clubs smaller than us have achieved. The fact many are blind to this, and simply accept 'we do not have a chance' is something i find incredibly dissapointing and well, deeply frustrating. Possibly the lack of ambition and push for success is a general way of thinking amongst many in the south west? When a Sunderland fan on this thread is even pointing this out, maybe you should listen?
Zoo
Zoo Corner":3vuh83g0 said:
Argyle are not building a 18,000 stadium they are redeveloping one stand which will bring an unused area back into use that will increase the current capacity.
Once the ground has consistently been sold out for a number of years and a waiting list of thousands exists for season tickets I am sure the Board will see there is a business case to redevelop one or all of the other stands to increase capacity as they will know they can fill the seats.
They may even decide to relocate and build a new ground.
Guiri Green":f6n529oc said:
Poor old Darlo have averaged over 10,000 only once in their history and over 5,000 twice in the last fifty years. They were in a sorry state when the cracksman bought them but his actions destroyed them. He must have been the only person who didn't think building a magnificent 25,500 all seater stadium in Darlington was a folly. Seven or eight thousand would have been more than sufficient.
I went to that ground to watch The Quakers a couple of times before their demotion from the fourth tier. There were as many catching the train at Darlington Station to go and watch Newcastle as were in The Reynolds Arena to support Darlington; underlining my earlier comment regarding the pros and cons of being an isolated club.
Had Reynolds been a Devon man rather than a Durham one (actually from Sunderland) then building just such a stadium for Plymouth Argyle would have been a sound and sensible decision.
Guiri Green":2lqdzo7c said:
Darlington aren't really relevant in our case... they never had the potential anyway and used to get crowds of about 2-3k and built a ground with a capacity about ten times bigger.
I think the frustration people find with the 18k figure is due to the reduction from the 20k+ figure we used to have. Capacity always used to symbolise a certain "size" or "stature" of club and this is what is perceived as a lack of ambition or "going backwards". However as many people have pointed out, without adding corners/completely new stands (at significant cost) we wouldn't realistically be able to make much more of the space we have available in the ground with the finances we have at present.
If you look teams like Watford or Burnley in the Premier League who after some redevelopment still only have a capacity of 21-22k we're not far off that yet two leagues lower. We need to try and maximise the capacity we've got by not segregating off entire blocks for example.
