Credit to Sheridan

[Andy Holland]

If you don't think debate over things going on at the club has any merit to it unless you're one of the 3 or 4 people there that actually makes the decisions and therefore knows more than we dumb fans, then I have to ask - why are you signed up to an Argyle discussion board?

 

[demportdave]

Are you saying people shouldn't have views if they aren't also football managers?

Surely that means your support of Sheridan is equally worthless - I mean, what do you know?

Of course everyone is entitled to have views but they should attempt to keep them reasonably balanced imo. I find it strange how a shower curtain ring salesman, bus driver or green as grass student can state with absolute fact that somebody who has been involved in a profession for practically their entire life as a top level player and fairly successful lower league manager is a totally clueless, dour, uninspiring tactical buffoon who is only here 2 days a week, doesn't train or prepare the players correctly, hates Plymouth and treats Argyle fans like pond life. Surely there can be very few people who know the man well enough to make such sweeping and almost certainly unfounded accusations. Anyway as you say, what do I know? Well I know that I'll continue to support the team and the manager until the end of the season and then make a judgement on whether the players and in particular Sheridan have succeeded or failed, I feel it's the only sensible course of action for a non expert such as myself.

So now you are the judge of what is reasonable and balanced?

On what basis are you suitable to make that judgement.

Have you any Professional qualifications and experience?

:banghead: Where did I say that? I said "everyone is entitled to have views but they should attempt to keep them reasonably balanced imo." You see those last three little letters dave? They stand for....... in...my...opinion, and unlike some I try not to convey rumour, hearsay, idle gossip or down right s**t stirring as FACT. And if that isn't enough for you i think you'll see if you take the time to read what is written instead of what you want to see that I ended my post by stating that I'm a non expert, others I'm sure will disagree. :thumbup:

Can you be a bit more specific on what is fact and what is rumour hearsay and idle gossip.

It's patently obvious that you are not an expert, but that doesn't mean that your views and opinions are no less valid than any other poster on this site.

 

[Ade the green]

Based on crowd size, and hence income, Argyle are one of the biggest clubs in the league. In League Two terms we are probably equivalent to Liverpool in the Premier League. So it should be one of the easier jobs in football mangement to get Argyle out of this league- especially as ther are three automatic promotion spots and four playoff spots up for grabs. Some of clubs in the league are really, really small and amateurish looking. Argyle have realistic potential to go much higher up the pyramid.

Yes, well done to Sheridan for getting the result yesterday and he can be proud of that. Buts it what we damn well expect of him. The bigger picture is that the club are 7th in the bottom league- so its still going to be one of the lowest Argyle finishes in the entire history of the club.

Promotion is a minimum.

Yes, Argyle are among the bigger crowd pullers in the division and yes,theoretically that means that the greater income should be reflected in terms of the playing budget. But, rightly or wrongly, it isn't. For the umpteenth time, James Brent himself has stated that Argyle are operating on a budget between 7th-9th in the division, which makes the crowd figure an irrelevance as far as saying that "Argyle are the equivalent of Liverpool in this division" is concerned. It has been suggested that this figure may be inaccurate and some doubt has been cast as to how Mr Brent would know this for a fact. In the WMN on Friday, the Yeovil chairman, whose name escapes me, criticised Gary Johnson for his performance this season, stating that he had been provided with the 14th biggest playing budget in the division and that he had been sacked because results had not lived up to the money provided. He was very precise about it-no room for doubt, the 14th biggest budget was clearly stated. Owners/chairman must be getting this information from some reliable source, otherwise why on earth would they put their heads on the blocks in such a specific way? My guess is that clubs must be given access to financial information about competitors in relation to the Fair play regulations and keeping within the "spend as a percentage of turnover" rules-whatever,there definitely seem to be budgetary league tables of some sort being produced. Leaving aside the budget does not necessarily reflect league position argument, which certainly has some validity especially in the short term, there seems to be a perception that Argyle are among the top spenders in the division commensurate with crowds attracted. They aren't-they are between the 7th-9th biggest and almost certainly that relatively low figure would be driven by the need to start to breaking even, a target which is on course to be achieved according to Mr Starnes recently. I'm not arguing against that policy or against your assertion that Argyle can go much further up the pyramid in comparison to most in this division [which is completely correct],just trying to point out some of the current realities that the club and by extension, the manager, are facing.

Forget the stuff about budget, in pure footballing terms with the players available we should have been serious top 3 contenders, not scrambling for 6/7th.

Sorry Greenskin. What a waste of a well thought out post reliant on information readily available to all but apparently it's as well to ignore it because it doesn't suit the negatives reality of what is happening at our club and many others it seems.

 

[chronicgreen]

If you don't think debate over things going on at the club has any merit to it unless you're one of the 3 or 4 people there that actually makes the decisions and therefore knows more than we dumb fans, then I have to ask - why are you signed up to an Argyle discussion board?

I'm happy to have a "debate over things going on at the club" but with regards to the manager it seems to have been more witch hunt than debate, I fully accept that he isn't everyone's cup of tea and has fallen short tactically at times this season but I also believe a lot of the venom directed towards him from certain quarters is due to the fact that he doesn't drool over the green army, nor does he 'play' the press particularly well. Neither of the last two points bothers me in the slightest, as I've said on many occasions, I'll judge the overall success or failure of the players and management at the end of the season.

If the Sheridan out at all costs brigade are so appalled at his lack of ability to manage their beloved club why isn't some of the grief being directed towards the owner and board for continuing to employ the "Northern oik", or the players for underperforming regardless of who is stood on the touchline, surely it's only fair to spread the blame around?

 

[chronicgreen]

Are you saying people shouldn't have views if they aren't also football managers?

Surely that means your support of Sheridan is equally worthless - I mean, what do you know?

Of course everyone is entitled to have views but they should attempt to keep them reasonably balanced imo. I find it strange how a shower curtain ring salesman, bus driver or green as grass student can state with absolute fact that somebody who has been involved in a profession for practically their entire life as a top level player and fairly successful lower league manager is a totally clueless, dour, uninspiring tactical buffoon who is only here 2 days a week, doesn't train or prepare the players correctly, hates Plymouth and treats Argyle fans like pond life. Surely there can be very few people who know the man well enough to make such sweeping and almost certainly unfounded accusations. Anyway as you say, what do I know? Well I know that I'll continue to support the team and the manager until the end of the season and then make a judgement on whether the players and in particular Sheridan have succeeded or failed, I feel it's the only sensible course of action for a non expert such as myself.

So now you are the judge of what is reasonable and balanced?

On what basis are you suitable to make that judgement.

Have you any Professional qualifications and experience?

:banghead: Where did I say that? I said "everyone is entitled to have views but they should attempt to keep them reasonably balanced imo." You see those last three little letters dave? They stand for....... in...my...opinion, and unlike some I try not to convey rumour, hearsay, idle gossip or down right s**t stirring as FACT. And if that isn't enough for you i think you'll see if you take the time to read what is written instead of what you want to see that I ended my post by stating that I'm a non expert, others I'm sure will disagree. :thumbup:

Can you be a bit more specific on what is fact and what is rumour hearsay and idle gossip.

It's patently obvious that you are not an expert, but that doesn't mean that your views and opinions are no less valid than any other poster on this site.

Unlike you who clearly has every FIFA coaching badge going and regularly gets Argo promoted on Football Manager.

 

[X Isle]

Repetitively giving Sheridan credit is one of the green army's biggest problems IMHO.

Don't get me wrong, I used to do it too. My default position has always been to back a manager/chairman/team until they've demonstrably proved it's futile.

In his case however he's lost me early because we've had to 'credit him' far too often. So even though I can see a case for acknowledging that his preparation and delivery on Sat'dy should merit some credit, I just can't give it. It'd only be giving credit for turning round yet another slump of his own making. You can do that once, twice, maybe even three or four times but over the last two seasons we've had to do it time and time again.

So sorry, but f**k credit. It's like giving financial credit to a gambler.... he fritters the credit away and you know full well that in no time at all he'll be back requiring more. We have to stop giving credit so easily.

I'll give credit to John Sheridan when he can deliver some proper consistency, of both results and performances. I don't expect to win every game, some you win some you don't, but there should be a consistent level of performance, a level of expected tactical nous, drive, desire and fight in each and every game. The constant repetition of 'X' good games followed by 'Y' bad games is worse, in some ways, to just bad games because it gives us tantalising glimpses of what we're capable of only to then rip them away from us.

I know that won't be a popular stance but that's just how I feel, I backed him in the bad times and credited him in the good times waaay too long.

 

[KBGreen]

I think the 2 or 3 'good games' followed by 3 or 4 bad must represent the mood swings in the camp! How can our manager build a cohesive and consistent unit, when every time things slip he blames everyone but himself and brings in a couple of new short-term possible fixes!? How can our home-grown or full-time pro's feel when every 6 weeks, the manager ships in a couple more newbies to shore things up??

Sadly, this approach might strangely get us out of this league, but it is no way to build a robust base for on-going club development is it???

 

[X Isle]

I'd like to think that once the debts have been cleared this over reliance on the loan system will end., a case of 'needs must'. However we were warned by Chesterfield fans that it's a mark of Sheridan's way of doing things so maybe that's just wishful thinking.

 

[philevs]

I think the 2 or 3 'good games' followed by 3 or 4 bad must represent the mood swings in the camp! How can our manager build a cohesive and consistent unit, when every time things slip he blames everyone but himself and brings in a couple of new short-term possible fixes!? How can our home-grown or full-time pro's feel when every 6 weeks, the manager ships in a couple more newbies to shore things up??

Sadly, this approach might strangely get us out of this league, but it is no way to build a robust base for on-going club development is it???

Thoroughly agree in principle, little seems to have been done to develop Harvey or Norburn (same with Thomas), who just get left out all the time. If they do get a game they can hardly be expected to impress with so little proper game-time. Now that Banton has been given some time on the pitch he is, by all accounts, starting to show some good form.

I do give JS credit though, he seems to have taken on board the need to take the supporters with him in the final push, by accepting his own role in poor performances. He also said before Cheltenham that he realised he needed to improve his performance as a manager, including use of subs, which is what a lot of people have been calling for!

Reckon we need a win from next two games, so let's see how he handles things this weekend.

 

[KBGreen]

I'm scarred by sitting behind the dug-out for one game: Coventry Away. Based on that and what I see on the pitch, which I respect is a very limited basis to conclude anything, I sadly think that this manager quickly loses the respect that his own playing record initially establishes. Hence the falling away of performances and our apparent inability to turn things around after half time talks!

As I say, this group of players, supplemented by the next loanee may actually get us through the play-offs, but for me that is no basis for success in League 1..... let's learn from Bristol City I say!

 

[Greenskin]

I'm scarred by sitting behind the dug-out for one game: Coventry Away. Based on that and what I see on the pitch, which I respect is a very limited basis to conclude anything, I sadly think that this manager quickly loses the respect that his own playing record initially establishes. Hence the falling away of performances and our apparent inability to turn things around after half time talks!

As I say, this group of players, supplemented by the next loanee may actually get us through the play-offs, but for me that is no basis for success in League 1..... let's learn from Bristol City I say!

Hell that's right. Lets ask Lansdowne if he's interested in taking over down here. :roll:

 

[Bristol Rich]

These threads are somewhat tedious, some posters have become Sheridan supporters not Argyle supporters in a desperate attempt to prove they aren't wrong and vice versa with cynics of Sheridan not giving much way either.

It's all rather boring and although I'm a Sheridan cynic, these arguments just go round in circles and are becoming rather dull, we will all know the end result soon enough.

 

[Greenskin]

These threads are somewhat tedious, some posters have become Sheridan supporters not Argyle supporters in a desperate attempt to prove they aren't wrong and vice versa with cynics of Sheridan not giving much way either.

It's all rather boring and although I'm a Sheridan cynic, these arguments just go round in circles and are becoming rather dull, we will all know the end result soon enough.

No different to anything that's gone before though. Exactly the same as team strengthening v ground development when we were in the CCC, backers of HHP v opponents, Larrieu v McCormick, spend or break even etc etc-people have opinions which become entrenched and you're probably right, in some instances they actually become so embedded that in the end the wood can't be seen for the trees on either side. It must be said though that AFAICR nobody pointed out the tedious nature of the 29 page thread in relation to Sheridan's pop at the fans last week. And that really was a tediously tedious waste of time. IMHO of course.

 

[Bristol Rich]

These threads are somewhat tedious, some posters have become Sheridan supporters not Argyle supporters in a desperate attempt to prove they aren't wrong and vice versa with cynics of Sheridan not giving much way either.

It's all rather boring and although I'm a Sheridan cynic, these arguments just go round in circles and are becoming rather dull, we will all know the end result soon enough.

No different to anything that's gone before though. Exactly the same as team strengthening v ground development when we were in the CCC, backers of HHP v opponents, Larrieu v McCormick, spend or break even etc etc-people have opinions which become entrenched and you're probably right, in some instances they actually become so embedded that in the end the wood can't be seen for the trees on either side. It must be said though that AFAICR nobody pointed out the tedious nature of the 29 page thread in relation to Sheridan's pop at the fans last week. And that really was a tediously tedious waste of time. IMHO of course.

I guess as the games run down the debate becomes less important, either he as manager will get the points from the remaining games or he won't. Either way he is here until the end of the season. I'm on record as saying I'm not convinced by Sheridan and Saturday's result doesn't change that but in the end the continual arguments mean less, points means everything.

 

[Bristol Rich]

Are you saying people shouldn't have views if they aren't also football managers?

Surely that means your support of Sheridan is equally worthless - I mean, what do you know?

Of course everyone is entitled to have views but they should attempt to keep them reasonably balanced imo. I find it strange how a shower curtain ring salesman, bus driver or green as grass student can state with absolute fact that somebody who has been involved in a profession for practically their entire life as a top level player and fairly successful lower league manager is a totally clueless, dour, uninspiring tactical buffoon who is only here 2 days a week, doesn't train or prepare the players correctly, hates Plymouth and treats Argyle fans like pond life. Surely there can be very few people who know the man well enough to make such sweeping and almost certainly unfounded accusations. Anyway as you say, what do I know? Well I know that I'll continue to support the team and the manager until the end of the season and then make a judgement on whether the players and in particular Sheridan have succeeded or failed, I feel it's the only sensible course of action for a non expert such as myself.

Chronic Green you should change your name to chronically boring. Every time there is the slightest hint of a question or criticism of Sheridan you take it upon your self to fight his corner to the death, I dare say you have already got the drafts for Friday evening written, a smug one if we win, a defending to the death one if we lose, all rather tedious. Sheridan doesn't read PASOTI and you won't become best friends. By your logic you should never question anyone who has been employed in football professionally, by your logic Mick Jones should still be managing Argyle then, as how could we question him? You would be a brilliant resident in North Korea blindly following the Grand leader.