Home Park Grandstand , Western Gate & HHP appln submitted

[Dalton Is God]

If Phase II happens this looks quite smart IMHO.

Agreed.

The only thing I'm not that keen on is that large storage/media room tacked onto the end of the stand but it's the only realistic space for it within these plans. Even then that's only an aesthetic problem.

 

[esmer]

Not wishing to throw a dampener on it but until the tender process is completed there is no guarantee that the project will be within budget. Speaking from experience that is certainly not a given.

 

[IJN]

Every Project Manager has a contingency stashed away somewhere Rich. :thumbup:

 

[callum no7]

I'm sure it is in there somewhere but I don't see anything about the number of seats in the rink. I don't see anything about the rink being able to be used for other purposes, ie basketball, trade shows, conventions, concerts etc.

From memory of my brief chat with the project manager at the consultation event; I think the seating capacity of the ice rink for ice hockey is due to be around 1,500. He wasn't 100% sure of the number but said Sport England had been involved and deemed it suitable. Not sure whether that meets the requirements for the EIHL for a professional team to use the rink as a home arena (Cardiff for example had 2,300 in their temporary tent thing) and I haven't been able to find out.

Converting ice rinks to basketball courts is very easy if its part of the design e.g the rink boards aren't permanently fixed.

 

[jerryatricjanner]

A little disappointed that phase 1 will leave us with barely 16,000 usable seats and phase 2 a shade over 19,000 in practise. The former will be less than our average gate last time we went up and the latter will be a 1,000 less than capacity last time. Still, the finished project even at stage 1 will be a huge, huge improvement in so many ways to what we have at present and I eagerly await it's completion.

 

[PL2 3DQ]

A little disappointed that phase 1 will leave us with barely 16,000 usable seats and phase 2 a shade over 19,000 in practise. The former will be less than our average gate last time we went up and the latter will be a 1,000 less than capacity last time. Still, the finished project even at stage 1 will be a huge, huge improvement in so many ways to what we have at present and I eagerly await it's completion.

I suppose it's a balance, either extra seats that are only used once every two weeks for nine months of a year or more corporate facilities that generates income every week, all year.

One of the key points of the refurbished grandstand is to bring in money through the extra corporate and commercial facilities.

 

[Rich McLean]

Every Project Manager has a contingency stashed away somewhere Rich. :thumbup:

:lol:

I have worked in Project Management. These plans are a proposal from a specification. When costs over run and there is no "rainy day" backup funds left, then the Project specification gets de-scoped and an inferior project delivered in order to meet cost expectations.

A good example is the Electrification of the Railways on the GWML. Now scaled back due to cost over runs, the same could happen to Home Park.

Fingers crossed the above doesn't happen at Home Park

 

[Quinny]

I work in Project Management in the NHS. We usually have to implement solutions without a budget, let along having contingency

 

[esmer]

Every Project Manager has a contingency stashed away somewhere Rich. :thumbup:

:lol:

I have worked in Project Management. These plans are a proposal from a specification. When costs over run and there is no "rainy day" backup funds left, then the Project specification gets de-scoped and an inferior project delivered in order to meet cost expectations.

A good example is the Electrification of the Railways on the GWML. Now scaled back due to cost over runs, the same could happen to Home Park.

Fingers crossed the above doesn't happen at Home Park

Let's hope so

 

[jerryatricjanner]

A little disappointed that phase 1 will leave us with barely 16,000 usable seats and phase 2 a shade over 19,000 in practise. The former will be less than our average gate last time we went up and the latter will be a 1,000 less than capacity last time. Still, the finished project even at stage 1 will be a huge, huge improvement in so many ways to what we have at present and I eagerly await it's completion.

I suppose it's a balance, either extra seats that are only used once every two weeks for nine months of a year or more corporate facilities that generates income every week, all year.

One of the key points of the refurbished grandstand is to bring in money through the extra corporate and commercial facilities.

Tis indeed a balance and corporate rules in the income stakes. Disappointing as it will be not to see 20,000 attendances again or possibly even 17,000 for that matter let's get the income streams up first and get into the second tier then tackle phase 2. We should be capable of challenging at that level with 17,000 gates and if the "promised land" ever happened then I guess we could always get the Devonport End increased with a second tier with the riches that would befall us. That's all pie in the sky at this stage of course but I look forward to seeing us back in tier 2 with vastly superior facilities.

 

[SWTT]

A little disappointed that phase 1 will leave us with barely 16,000 usable seats and phase 2 a shade over 19,000 in practise. The former will be less than our average gate last time we went up and the latter will be a 1,000 less than capacity last time. Still, the finished project even at stage 1 will be a huge, huge improvement in so many ways to what we have at present and I eagerly await it's completion.

I suppose it's a balance, either extra seats that are only used once every two weeks for nine months of a year or more corporate facilities that generates income every week, all year.

One of the key points of the refurbished grandstand is to bring in money through the extra corporate and commercial facilities.

But we're first and foremost a football club, not a wedding venue or RAC conference suite. It's a welcome addition to the club, but let's not forget that getting bums on seats for Argyle is the primary concern for the club.

While there's no genuine intention to complete phase 2, I share JJ's disappointment, but also acknowledge the necessity for additional revenue opportunities and welcome the mayflower terrace being spruced back up from its current sorry state.

It's frustrating also that the Grandstand redevelopment and grown from just that to an ambitious and gigantic project, but all with extras that have zero relevance to the club. And the ambition of the rest of the development is largely lacking in the refurb. The last time the club's stewardship got distracted from on field issues all hell broke loose.

I largely support the plans, but the way that they have been revealed over these last few months has come across as a bit underhand and deliberately misleading in my opinion.

 

[IJN]

While there's no genuine intention to complete phase 2.

I genuinely don't think that IS the case Mr Swim.


If the money comes (transfer fees, add ons, cup runs) I wouldn't be surprised if it was completed.

Once again though, our club will not spend money it hasn't got.

 

[SWTT]

I think they've admit that there's no time scale or financing plans for Stage 2 though Ian. So it's well and good saying that a few bonuses might pay for it, but there's a bit of confusion as to how much the whole thing would cost as an extra. And that's not being looked into, which is why I say at current there doesn't seem to be a genuine intention to get it built. It's a very very nice idea.

Phase 2 was also detailed to possibly house rail seats/safe standing to increase capacity. There's been a bit of movement on that front lately, with Shrews being granted permission to fit them in their new stand. Has this been looked into.

As said already, I like the plans, but the way they've been revealed and expanded with all these extras chucked in to surrounding sites (and the lack of benefit to PAFC) does leave me a bit puzzled as to why it's been so deceptive. I'm sure there's money being made with the developments and good for the parties involved, but it'd be nice if Argyle was one of those. If Phase 2 could be confirmed to proceed I think you'd satisfy almost every Argyle fan out there.

While Phase 2 remains as a lingering idea it just seems that once again we can't ever get a project done to 100%. 16 years waiting for the original Phase 2 and finally a refurb that seems to have legs ends up leaving the ground at 90% finished. It's just frustrating.

 

[IJN]

I know exactly how you feel mate.

 

[PL2 3DQ]

I think they've admit that there's no time scale or financing plans for Stage 2 though Ian. So it's well and good saying that a few bonuses might pay for it, but there's a bit of confusion as to how much the whole thing would cost as an extra. And that's not being looked into, which is why I say at current there doesn't seem to be a genuine intention to get it built. It's a very very nice idea.

Phase 2 was also detailed to possibly house rail seats/safe standing to increase capacity. There's been a bit of movement on that front lately, with Shrews being granted permission to fit them in their new stand. Has this been looked into.

As said already, I like the plans, but the way they've been revealed and expanded with all these extras chucked in to surrounding sites (and the lack of benefit to PAFC) does leave me a bit puzzled as to why it's been so deceptive. I'm sure there's money being made with the developments and good for the parties involved, but it'd be nice if Argyle was one of those. If Phase 2 could be confirmed to proceed I think you'd satisfy almost every Argyle fan out there.

While Phase 2 remains as a lingering idea it just seems that once again we can't ever get a project done to 100%. 16 years waiting for the original Phase 2 and finally a refurb that seems to have legs ends up leaving the ground at 90% finished. It's just frustrating.

Someone more qualified than me will confirm but I think once a planning application is submitted the development must take place within three years or else a completely new planning application must be submitted.
If true, it means that having submitted plans for Stage 2 it needs to happen within three years, so I suppose that's the time scale for Stage 2.