Police intelligence-Oxymoron?

[Gloucester Green]

Newport had many a problem last season and their reputation precedes them. You should see the Avon and Somerset turnout when Newport hit Bristol

 

[GreenMatt]

A couple of seasons ago when we played them I remember sitting in my car after the game and having some of their morons chasing and fighting some of our morons across the car park and some of their fans being led from the holding rooms by the police and chucked straight onto their coaches, so their definitely is recent history.

 

[GreenThing]

In the 80's, it was common practice to keep the away fans in the ground for 15-20mins after a match to let the home fans disperse. Why don't they do this if there is a possibility of trouble?

 

[up the line]

On the evidence of today it looks like they'll get to do all the hard man posturing they like at Boreham Wood and Guiseley next season

 

[X Isle]

I have to disagree. Newport are well known for trouble. Have been for years in the lower leagues. They had a number of fans looking for trouble the 1st season they came down here. Trouble before and after the game. Then you no you attract the rain coat brigade on a boiling hot sunny day when there's a wiff of trouble.

If it kicks off everyone says where are the police? Why went they there. If they turn up to prevent it their scaring children. What a load of rubbish. I never seen any issue today. Didn't see any kids to frightened to move. Honestly moaning for no reason. Football must have been alright I suppose. Gota go home and kick the cat for some reason.

Nail, hit, head :clap:

Can anyone explain why D@C had that level of policing for 300 away fans? When at Northampton and Wimbledon there seem to be minimal policing for 700 and 900 away fans?

Yes. They have a bad rep', we don't. Simple as.

Everyone got home safe didn't they. So unless those moaning have some sort of crystal ball that can see peace, love and Newport fans lacing daisies into the hair of Argyle fans without that police presence today in some parallel universe then perhaps that fact should be where this spleen venting thread should begin and end. Everyone got home safe and well, end of.

I sense the finger pointing in this thread might just be coming from 'home only' fans who rarely if ever travel. Anyone with even a passing knowledge and experience of the away game scene will tell you which clubs are friendly and which clubs are trouble.

A thread title of 'fan intelligence - oxymoron' is perhaps more appropriate.

 

[HC Green]

My comments are based on comparing D@C policing levels with all the other Police Forces at all Argyle away games over the last decade or so along with a number of Premier League and England games. Today there were 291 away fans, by my estimate there was 1 police officer per 5 away fans, if that ratio is required do D&C have enough resources for the high profile games coming up.

 

[jespafc]

How about though if 200 Argyle troublemakers had also turned up looking for a fight? Surely it's better to have too many than not enough?

 

[thirskgreen]

I csn understand some of the frustration being vented in respect of delays exiting HP. But as Xy said, would it have been a love-in without the D&C presence? Possibly not. Pull up a sandbag and I'll briefly explain.....prior to matches, the football liaison officer of the hosting Force meets with counterparts of the visiting teams Force. Intel is exchanged over known hooligans and risk nominals. The Intel is risk assessed and the match is categorised. Police staffing is calculated on the category. Of course, many of the chavs involved are all talk and no trousers. But Plod can't take the risk if making that assumption because if they did walk the walk it could so easily end in disaster. A question was asked about the clubs financial obligation. The club pays for the officers who are utilised inside the ground hence why stewards are the preferred first line of defence. The remainder that are patrolling externally are primarily for public protection and not part of the bill. As for the comments about escorts on the A38? From my experience working for North Yorkshire Police I know that the preferred option is to pick up the coaches and get em to the ground so the fans can be managed efficiently. Much easier than having small pockets of fans including risk nominals spread over potentially all 4 corners of the city and beyond. Often, visiting fans to Middlesbrough and Sunderland will look to exit the A19 into places such as Thirsk, Northallerton, etc in search of pubs. Therefore, our traffic plot up and intercept them and take em to the northern point of the county. Cleveland police have a pool of outriders who then take over and take straight to the ground. Those who call it an overkill would be first to bump their gums if a couple coaches rolled in to somewhere like ivybridge unsupervised and the risk elements on board would be free to rampage for 20 or 30 mins before sufficient resources from the City arrived to regain control. The fact that we see so little trouble goes to show that the tactics employed are the right ones surely?

 

[The Grumpy Loyal]

When were the steps blocked I went down them the police were stood at the bottom

I got out of the ground right on the final whistle, the stewards prevented my wife and I that we couldn't walk down the steps. I asked them what authority they had to prevent me from doing so to which they said the police had told them. By the time I had waked around the top and to the bottom of the steps people were being allowed down the steps. I asked a pc what the problem was he said he had no idea but the stewards had decided to block off the steps!!!!

I reckon I must have been stood next to you at the time of this, so I can concur. The stewards said they were blocking the steps on the orders of the police, who who mobbed up at the bottom of the steps. I walked back about 15-20 yards then jumped over the fence and down the bank and asked the coppers wtf they thought they were doing. They said it was nothing to do with them. Blaming each other for a crackpot decision just makes them both look like amateurs. Sadly not surprising though with the records of our police and stewards at games.

 

[HC Green]

I always assumed that the Police/Stewards would want the crowd to disperse as quickly as possible, so why block off one of the main exit routes for home fans causing a bottleneck instead.

 

[pedro91]

What could the stewards do if you tried to go down the steps?

 

[L G]

I csn understand some of the frustration being vented in respect of delays exiting HP. But as Xy said, would it have been a love-in without the D&C presence? Possibly not. Pull up a sandbag and I'll briefly explain.....prior to matches, the football liaison officer of the hosting Force meets with counterparts of the visiting teams Force. Intel is exchanged over known hooligans and risk nominals. The Intel is risk assessed and the match is categorised. Police staffing is calculated on the category. Of course, many of the chavs involved are all talk and no trousers. But Plod can't take the risk if making that assumption because if they did walk the walk it could so easily end in disaster. A question was asked about the clubs financial obligation. The club pays for the officers who are utilised inside the ground hence why stewards are the preferred first line of defence. The remainder that are patrolling externally are primarily for public protection and not part of the bill. As for the comments about escorts on the A38? From my experience working for North Yorkshire Police I know that the preferred option is to pick up the coaches and get em to the ground so the fans can be managed efficiently. Much easier than having small pockets of fans including risk nominals spread over potentially all 4 corners of the city and beyond. Often, visiting fans to Middlesbrough and Sunderland will look to exit the A19 into places such as Thirsk, Northallerton, etc in search of pubs. Therefore, our traffic plot up and intercept them and take em to the northern point of the county. Cleveland police have a pool of outriders who then take over and take straight to the ground. Those who call it an overkill would be first to bump their gums if a couple coaches rolled in to somewhere like ivybridge unsupervised and the risk elements on board would be free to rampage for 20 or 30 mins before sufficient resources from the City arrived to regain control. The fact that we see so little trouble goes to show that the tactics employed are the right ones surely?

Thanks for that insight.
Didn't see so many meatheads from Newport as there were down last season.
But you can never be too careful with our Welsh friends.
for Bristol Rovers there's already an extra £1 charge on the tickets.
This could be a lively affair too.

 

[X Isle]

When were the steps blocked I went down them the police were stood at the bottom

I got out of the ground right on the final whistle, the stewards prevented my wife and I that we couldn't walk down the steps. I asked them what authority they had to prevent me from doing so to which they said the police had told them. By the time I had waked around the top and to the bottom of the steps people were being allowed down the steps. I asked a pc what the problem was he said he had no idea but the stewards had decided to block off the steps!!!!

I reckon I must have been stood next to you at the time of this, so I can concur. The stewards said they were blocking the steps on the orders of the police, who who mobbed up at the bottom of the steps. I walked back about 15-20 yards then jumped over the fence and down the bank and asked the coppers wtf they thought they were doing. They said it was nothing to do with them. Blaming each other for a crackpot decision just makes them both look like amateurs. Sadly not surprising though with the records of our police and stewards at games.

...that record being the bloodbath catalogue of just how many deaths and injuries at or around Argyle matches Grumpy?

That 'record' is the only one that matters. The 'record' you refer to is however just a perception. A perception that may well be widely held but is nonetheless the product of individuals prejudices and agendas against authority rather than any calm, balanced and pragmatic assessment of the necessity for stadium safety and public protection.

 

[HC Green]

My perception of Home Park being over policed is based on attending around 50 matches per season including all Argyle away fixtures and a number of Premier matches.

 

[X Isle]

How many Newport games?

They're horrible and it should've been no surprise to anyone it necessitated extra resources yesterday.