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Real fans
- Thread starter simonh
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Presumably he had been to at least 5 games though in the last year & half?Steve Evans":2iz0zkte said:
I recall a good sketch on BBC about Liverpool's plastics, found it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN1WN0YMWZU
I guess equally the expansive use of "we" could be turned to mock any diehards, the supposed patrons of only things local being heavenly. Presumably those saintly pilgrims never watch any other sports entertainment unless "passionately" in person sat down at Albion, Devon CCC, or errgh the speedway. Nor shop at any of those ghastly non-local supermarket chains.
I guess equally the expansive use of "we" could be turned to mock any diehards, the supposed patrons of only things local being heavenly. Presumably those saintly pilgrims never watch any other sports entertainment unless "passionately" in person sat down at Albion, Devon CCC, or errgh the speedway. Nor shop at any of those ghastly non-local supermarket chains.
Hi again all,
My original post was simply a plea to make people who are coming to only the occasional Argyle game welcome, in the hope that that may encourage them to come again.
Thanks (really) for all the feedback, which has drifted into other areas. Very brief comments below:
A. Ticketing
1. "New fans shouldn't turf out old ones". Agreed. We have tried to prioritise season ticket holders for the Liverpool game. Knarf says we over-prioritised some members by allowing them more than one ticket. Reasonable people can differ on that. I don't have a view. It pees me off though that people take advantage of that opportunity (not obligation) to buy tickets and then give them away or (illegally) sell them.
2. The ticketing for the Liverpool game has caused problems for some. If we've made errors we will try to fix them, but note we are trying to ration a scarce good in a way other than by price. Just holding prices steady will lead to disagreement about who gets them. It means favoring some people over others. Some will be unhappy. There are different views on who to favor and who not to favor, and how to implement what's decided. This feedback is helpful.
4. We will get a full analysis of what we did right and wrong in ticketing and, (don't shout me down), we did a lot right. Errors will be fixed.
5. Agreed we need a way to help fans who don't live near the Ground get the same consideration as other regulars.
6. Communications -- could have been better, agreed.
B.
Pricing -- we do not charge extra on match day, we give a discount to early buyers. See the PASOTI q & a from May:
"The Club is selling tickets that are limited to about 16,000 in number. The trouble is that we rarely sell that many.
Given that, if we were to give a discount on match day, rather than to early buyers (which is the same as an increase on match day), everyone would wait for match day. That would make financial planning difficult, make for less revenue, and, I suspect, we would sell fewer tickets.
If we were sold out for every game, we could indeed hold some back and sell at a discount on the day.
We need to plan the logistics of game day. Knowing that we have sold a certain number of tickets means that we know how much security, food and drink, and even stock in the Superstore we need.
So, the Club offers a discount for early buyers, it does not charge a premium for last minute arrivals.
That said, I agree we need to get new fans, and we need to get fans for whom half a dozen games a season is enough. That means we want everyone in Plymouth and the surrounding areas coming occasionally to add to the diehards who come to every game."
C.
Getting new fans: agree that it's a long-term project, but regulars should encourage it not discourage it, if it's going to lead to more new fans turning up. Argyle does a lot of good in the Community, and we need to trumpet that. We also need to improve match day services and facilities. The money for the new Grandstand is for that, but repayment of debt means that we have more money for repairs and maintenance. A plan is under way now.
Thanks again -- we welcome reasonable feedback, and love suggestions, but please remember that sometimes we will have different views about how to run the Club. But, it's all for the benefits of supporters, no other group.
My original post was simply a plea to make people who are coming to only the occasional Argyle game welcome, in the hope that that may encourage them to come again.
Thanks (really) for all the feedback, which has drifted into other areas. Very brief comments below:
A. Ticketing
1. "New fans shouldn't turf out old ones". Agreed. We have tried to prioritise season ticket holders for the Liverpool game. Knarf says we over-prioritised some members by allowing them more than one ticket. Reasonable people can differ on that. I don't have a view. It pees me off though that people take advantage of that opportunity (not obligation) to buy tickets and then give them away or (illegally) sell them.
2. The ticketing for the Liverpool game has caused problems for some. If we've made errors we will try to fix them, but note we are trying to ration a scarce good in a way other than by price. Just holding prices steady will lead to disagreement about who gets them. It means favoring some people over others. Some will be unhappy. There are different views on who to favor and who not to favor, and how to implement what's decided. This feedback is helpful.
4. We will get a full analysis of what we did right and wrong in ticketing and, (don't shout me down), we did a lot right. Errors will be fixed.
5. Agreed we need a way to help fans who don't live near the Ground get the same consideration as other regulars.
6. Communications -- could have been better, agreed.
B.
Pricing -- we do not charge extra on match day, we give a discount to early buyers. See the PASOTI q & a from May:
"The Club is selling tickets that are limited to about 16,000 in number. The trouble is that we rarely sell that many.
Given that, if we were to give a discount on match day, rather than to early buyers (which is the same as an increase on match day), everyone would wait for match day. That would make financial planning difficult, make for less revenue, and, I suspect, we would sell fewer tickets.
If we were sold out for every game, we could indeed hold some back and sell at a discount on the day.
We need to plan the logistics of game day. Knowing that we have sold a certain number of tickets means that we know how much security, food and drink, and even stock in the Superstore we need.
So, the Club offers a discount for early buyers, it does not charge a premium for last minute arrivals.
That said, I agree we need to get new fans, and we need to get fans for whom half a dozen games a season is enough. That means we want everyone in Plymouth and the surrounding areas coming occasionally to add to the diehards who come to every game."
C.
Getting new fans: agree that it's a long-term project, but regulars should encourage it not discourage it, if it's going to lead to more new fans turning up. Argyle does a lot of good in the Community, and we need to trumpet that. We also need to improve match day services and facilities. The money for the new Grandstand is for that, but repayment of debt means that we have more money for repairs and maintenance. A plan is under way now.
Thanks again -- we welcome reasonable feedback, and love suggestions, but please remember that sometimes we will have different views about how to run the Club. But, it's all for the benefits of supporters, no other group.
Thanks Simon.
There has been plenty said about A & B but regarding C - I don’t see the harm with some ‘in-yer-face’ PR about supporting your local club, being proud of where you’re from & some mickey-taking about not merely being part of the scenery for worldwide mega-brands hundreds of miles from Devon. I mean really push it. Posters around the city (even further afield – like Exeter
?), ads in the paper etc. Some expense for sure but that’s what ‘brand awareness’ is all about and should pay-back long term.
Also – speaking from experience - focus on the kids. More kid-a-quid deals if they bring a parent. If you can get them into it then not only is there a long term investment but the pester power can make the Dad/Mum turn up more often. I live in East Devon and it’s hard enough juggling work & home life so it probably wouldn’t go down too well with my wife if I buggered off to Argyle on my own regularly at weekends but the fact that our lad is a manic fan I can pretend I’m just being an indulgent parent .
There has been plenty said about A & B but regarding C - I don’t see the harm with some ‘in-yer-face’ PR about supporting your local club, being proud of where you’re from & some mickey-taking about not merely being part of the scenery for worldwide mega-brands hundreds of miles from Devon. I mean really push it. Posters around the city (even further afield – like Exeter
?), ads in the paper etc. Some expense for sure but that’s what ‘brand awareness’ is all about and should pay-back long term.Also – speaking from experience - focus on the kids. More kid-a-quid deals if they bring a parent. If you can get them into it then not only is there a long term investment but the pester power can make the Dad/Mum turn up more often. I live in East Devon and it’s hard enough juggling work & home life so it probably wouldn’t go down too well with my wife if I buggered off to Argyle on my own regularly at weekends but the fact that our lad is a manic fan I can pretend I’m just being an indulgent parent
.
Ave_IT":2yvxrabc said:
:iagree:
I know it can get a bit screamy (!) but this has to be key tactic for locals. Notts County pushing similar this weekend "4 U12's free with adult" and U16 deals etc
A
argyle dude
Guest
Broc's Pilgrimage":2v60cqb1 said:
Not so sure, I thought kids for a quid was great when I was dragged along to Home Park by some school friends. Some 15 and a bit years later, some joy, a lot of heartache, and god knows how much time and money later, it suddenly doesn't seem such good value :funny:
But otherwise totally agree, catch 'em while they are still young and haven't swallowed all the crap that they are fed by Sky.
Hi Simon
First of all many thanks for your very substantial financial commitment to the club and for your comments on here
With regards to the Liverpool ticket scenario which has been difficult for both sides,as a White Member I was able to book my ticket easily on line for both matches and surely online is the way forward particularly for supporters like myself who are not local
Great to see the Mayflower temporary seating reinstated and would be great if this could be retained for the Exeter game
First of all many thanks for your very substantial financial commitment to the club and for your comments on here
With regards to the Liverpool ticket scenario which has been difficult for both sides,as a White Member I was able to book my ticket easily on line for both matches and surely online is the way forward particularly for supporters like myself who are not local
Great to see the Mayflower temporary seating reinstated and would be great if this could be retained for the Exeter game
I would love to know how you are going to get more people in.
For as many years as I can remember if Argyle are playing your average league 1 or 2 side the attendances stay constant to how well they are doing.
If doing very poorly. Just over 5,000. It might dip below but normally stays somewhere around this mark.
If doing OK they will attract between 5,500 and around 7,000 depending on away level of support.
If they are doing well it stays around 7,000 - 9,000 with the top figure being generous, again depending on away numbers.
I'm not talking about your Exeter, Portsmouth, Boxing day games etc... I'm talking normal run of the mill games against your Barnet's, Hartelpool's, Cambridge teams etc.....
There simply is no appetite for these games among the casual supporter. I know many "casual" Argyle fans who turned up simply for the "derby" games or decided to go away if it was a decent size club. Its just in their mentality.
I will give you the best example of what Mr Hallett your fighting against. Before the Mr Brent came along and saved our club the board back then, with Sir Roy & Co, were going for the WC bid. Well I cant remember who it was against but there was a game to promote on sky and the board thought it would be brilliant to use this platform to get the people of Plymouth to back their WC bid. The game was made "free" We couldn't even get a sell out to a game where all Plymouth people had to do was turn up and get a ticket. One or two of the people I knew that did turn up only came because it was free. They didn't even manage to see the game through.
As a season ticket holder I have even agreed with price reductions for games over past seasons, even though it is of no benefit for me. Yet do these people return? One or two might but the nothing that greatly changes the numbers.
I don't mind who turns up to games to support Argyle but most of the time you can see why they are there. The ground is packed to the rafters when Exeter and Portsmouth visit. Is it really a game of football they want to see? Or just spend 90 mins baiting rival fans? If its the first answer then why is it we don't see them at Cambridge, Barnet, Hartlepool games etc..... These are the games where the club will make their money because they will turn up because of who the opposition is. With that in mind that is where I would hike up prices on match days.
Now it will be said not everyone can afford to go to every game. They have to pick and choose which is why we have white memberships. I understand this but most will then choose the "glamour" ties of the league two campaign. If somehow you make seeing a Barnet game more appealing by maybe combing it with another game. You could pay for one in full and make the other half price, especially if you have one on a Saturday then a following Tuesday night game. However, if you could offering games like Exeter at the same price as a Cambridge then your white members/casual supporters will just choose Exeter all the time. There has to be an incentive.
Argyle fans like myself know the more that turn up, the more money the club has. Therefore a better budget. I'm sure most of us gladly and happily welcome any new fan along to watch Argyle. Yet Argyle has to get more imaginative with its membership schemes. Maybe introduce a family season ticket for example for 2 adults and 2 kids at a reduction beyond what it costs for 2 adults season tickets and 2 u16's! They have to get more imaginative with what they offer regarding match day prices for certain games.
Unfortunately, the current schemes just draw the same people out each year. In a financial climate that is only going to get tougher even the regulars may have to really choose if they can afford Argyle any more. Its not exactly the wealthiest of areas to live in. Which is why I feel sometimes you shouldn't forget the 4,000 that currently turn up no matter what. I felt for many years Argyle have taken for granted these fans because they know they will turn up. Yet eventually some do actually become disillusioned and you can see your ST's figures become eroded. So I would like to see somewhere where loyalty is rewarded. There was a scheme where you had a discount each year on your season ticket for the next 5 seasons if you brought one continuously. Why can't something like this come back into effect?
I think everyone loves the fact you come on here and answer questions when you can. Everyone acknowledges how fantastic it is to have you on board and how lucky we are to have your financial input into Argyle.
However, since time began the same problems has persisted regarding this football club and the apathy from the Plymouth general public towards it. I'm afraid its a generational thing where the club has taken so much stick and abuse that it has became the normal attitude to treat it in the current manner. I don't see how you turn that around without the "sugar daddy" effect which is someone coming in with vast amounts (millions upon million) of money and pumping into the team until they reach the premier league. Only then, would maybe you see a change in attitude.
For as many years as I can remember if Argyle are playing your average league 1 or 2 side the attendances stay constant to how well they are doing.
If doing very poorly. Just over 5,000. It might dip below but normally stays somewhere around this mark.
If doing OK they will attract between 5,500 and around 7,000 depending on away level of support.
If they are doing well it stays around 7,000 - 9,000 with the top figure being generous, again depending on away numbers.
I'm not talking about your Exeter, Portsmouth, Boxing day games etc... I'm talking normal run of the mill games against your Barnet's, Hartelpool's, Cambridge teams etc.....
There simply is no appetite for these games among the casual supporter. I know many "casual" Argyle fans who turned up simply for the "derby" games or decided to go away if it was a decent size club. Its just in their mentality.
I will give you the best example of what Mr Hallett your fighting against. Before the Mr Brent came along and saved our club the board back then, with Sir Roy & Co, were going for the WC bid. Well I cant remember who it was against but there was a game to promote on sky and the board thought it would be brilliant to use this platform to get the people of Plymouth to back their WC bid. The game was made "free" We couldn't even get a sell out to a game where all Plymouth people had to do was turn up and get a ticket. One or two of the people I knew that did turn up only came because it was free. They didn't even manage to see the game through.
As a season ticket holder I have even agreed with price reductions for games over past seasons, even though it is of no benefit for me. Yet do these people return? One or two might but the nothing that greatly changes the numbers.
I don't mind who turns up to games to support Argyle but most of the time you can see why they are there. The ground is packed to the rafters when Exeter and Portsmouth visit. Is it really a game of football they want to see? Or just spend 90 mins baiting rival fans? If its the first answer then why is it we don't see them at Cambridge, Barnet, Hartlepool games etc..... These are the games where the club will make their money because they will turn up because of who the opposition is. With that in mind that is where I would hike up prices on match days.
Now it will be said not everyone can afford to go to every game. They have to pick and choose which is why we have white memberships. I understand this but most will then choose the "glamour" ties of the league two campaign. If somehow you make seeing a Barnet game more appealing by maybe combing it with another game. You could pay for one in full and make the other half price, especially if you have one on a Saturday then a following Tuesday night game. However, if you could offering games like Exeter at the same price as a Cambridge then your white members/casual supporters will just choose Exeter all the time. There has to be an incentive.
Argyle fans like myself know the more that turn up, the more money the club has. Therefore a better budget. I'm sure most of us gladly and happily welcome any new fan along to watch Argyle. Yet Argyle has to get more imaginative with its membership schemes. Maybe introduce a family season ticket for example for 2 adults and 2 kids at a reduction beyond what it costs for 2 adults season tickets and 2 u16's! They have to get more imaginative with what they offer regarding match day prices for certain games.
Unfortunately, the current schemes just draw the same people out each year. In a financial climate that is only going to get tougher even the regulars may have to really choose if they can afford Argyle any more. Its not exactly the wealthiest of areas to live in. Which is why I feel sometimes you shouldn't forget the 4,000 that currently turn up no matter what. I felt for many years Argyle have taken for granted these fans because they know they will turn up. Yet eventually some do actually become disillusioned and you can see your ST's figures become eroded. So I would like to see somewhere where loyalty is rewarded. There was a scheme where you had a discount each year on your season ticket for the next 5 seasons if you brought one continuously. Why can't something like this come back into effect?
I think everyone loves the fact you come on here and answer questions when you can. Everyone acknowledges how fantastic it is to have you on board and how lucky we are to have your financial input into Argyle.
However, since time began the same problems has persisted regarding this football club and the apathy from the Plymouth general public towards it. I'm afraid its a generational thing where the club has taken so much stick and abuse that it has became the normal attitude to treat it in the current manner. I don't see how you turn that around without the "sugar daddy" effect which is someone coming in with vast amounts (millions upon million) of money and pumping into the team until they reach the premier league. Only then, would maybe you see a change in attitude.
simonh":3ttmvxs8 said:
All stadium family tickets, lots of people have several family members who have been sat in there own seats for a long time and don't want to have to sit in the family zone but with there friends, I know some who won't bring there kids as they do not want to sit in there especially if it's a rival like Exeter or Pompey.
It doesn't effect me as my daughter at 15 doesn't qualify but I feel we are missing a trick here, surely by offering this sort of ticket you will get some of the kids form friendships and bonds with the differing generations around them that will help them grow attached and become fans of the club like my Daughter has.
- Nov 17, 2009
- 4,125
- 117
Hi Simon on point 4 ticketing you say you got a lot right could you please explain what it was you got right, it was a total shambles and today when the tickets are supposed to be available for the extra mayflower seating it is still a shambles.
B
Barbican
Guest
I have read through this thread and others regarding ticketing and I have to feel sorry for your fans. The whole episode is totally shambolic. If it is any consolation the Grecians fared even worse when we played them last season. I got two tickets for the same seat. Took a mate who stood at the back so can't complain!
