It was a case of one or the other with Young and Hourihane. The same as a combo of Cox and O'connor now. They're too much of the same. Take Cox or O'connor and pair them with Hourihane or Young and I've no doubt you'll have a fantastic midfield. One of those partnerships was proven to be probably the best midfield duo in the division. Sheridan was looking to rebuild that exact partnership. Budget constraints meant he couldn't afford both Young and Hourihane, especially while the former would be left for a role on the bench - so unfortunately he was released. Then the club sold Hourihane and left Shez in the shitter. The best Shez could afford? Ollie Norburn on a free... Yeah, thanks for that Brent.
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Who really should be blamed?
- Thread starter Metal Green Mickey
- Start date
I'm not sure how much Brent is to blame.. we are still (I think) in a financial hole and the Hourihane money will (have) to be used to pay off the debt.
I don't know a lot about the clubs finances or the repayments but that looks to me what has happened. Whether or not spending the 200k on a creative mid resulting in better performances/ bigger crowds/ higher league position would generate more revenue than 200k is something we won't find out.
I hope we have enough to pay off the balloon payment whenever that date is....
I don't know a lot about the clubs finances or the repayments but that looks to me what has happened. Whether or not spending the 200k on a creative mid resulting in better performances/ bigger crowds/ higher league position would generate more revenue than 200k is something we won't find out.
I hope we have enough to pay off the balloon payment whenever that date is....
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Paul_Roberts
Guest
Lundan Cabbie":26n7z6ny said:
I doubt it, seeing as 10th in their respective divisions is probably about par for both clubs. You appear to have completely missed the point of this thread.
I think recruiting a football manager of a professional club must be one of the hardest recruitment jobs to have. More so in the lower divisions because inevitably, anyone interested will have failures stamped on their CV or be a complete novice.But like managers in all walks of life in accepting jobs you accept budgets and know the constraints as well as the rewards.
John Sheridan knew in advance where Plymouth was, he knew his management budget to bring his own staff in and the playing budget to attract players.
During the close season he recruited better quality players than he released by common consent. He clearly had a decent budget as he was able to offer these players, in the main, 2 year deals. It was his self avowed intent to at least make the play offs.We may do still, but I suspect not without a major rethink because Plan A, B, C and D hasn't come off and the only people looking more bemused than the fans are the players.
Managers are paid to manage, to lead and to inspire. I hope that is what JS is doing and just not getting the tangible results to date.
2 quick observations: we finished last year with a settled striking partnership of Lewi and Rueben, one that had been developed mid way through the season and one that produced positive results. At about the same time we were forced to introduce a 17 year old left back who by his mature and capable performances made the position his own. It is difficult to see what has happened to radically ignore both of those successful decisions this season.
Like many fans I am confused before, during and after matches about what the manager was trying to achieve. But, at the end of the day, he is paid to manage and if doubts exist about his ability to continue that is for the Board to decide, who better be sure they have a better alternative in mind.
Its tough being a manager, but even tougher being a lifetime supporter.
John Sheridan knew in advance where Plymouth was, he knew his management budget to bring his own staff in and the playing budget to attract players.
During the close season he recruited better quality players than he released by common consent. He clearly had a decent budget as he was able to offer these players, in the main, 2 year deals. It was his self avowed intent to at least make the play offs.We may do still, but I suspect not without a major rethink because Plan A, B, C and D hasn't come off and the only people looking more bemused than the fans are the players.
Managers are paid to manage, to lead and to inspire. I hope that is what JS is doing and just not getting the tangible results to date.
2 quick observations: we finished last year with a settled striking partnership of Lewi and Rueben, one that had been developed mid way through the season and one that produced positive results. At about the same time we were forced to introduce a 17 year old left back who by his mature and capable performances made the position his own. It is difficult to see what has happened to radically ignore both of those successful decisions this season.
Like many fans I am confused before, during and after matches about what the manager was trying to achieve. But, at the end of the day, he is paid to manage and if doubts exist about his ability to continue that is for the Board to decide, who better be sure they have a better alternative in mind.
Its tough being a manager, but even tougher being a lifetime supporter.
tonycholwell":a8kwukwk said:
So true. He seems to find something that works, then changes it radically for no apparent reason. Banton being another case study to go with yours. Absolutely unplayable in a central drifting position - hard to mark and scored goals with his obvious shooting ability. Ever since then he's been stuck out on the touchline where the opposition can easily regulate him. His tendency to drift off the touchline towards the centre of the pitch when he receives the ball is no coincidence -
Unfortunately I feel that the crucial decision maker at the club is so lacking in football knowledge he would find it difficult to talk 'on-field matters' with Sheridan with any degree of surety. It'd be like me trying to pull up a heart surgeon on the way he performs operations.
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Paul_Roberts
Guest
up_the_line":2fg9ao20 said:
To be fair, I would hope no chairman of ours ever tries to interfere with footballing matters, not even just to chat to the manager. Else you end up with McCauley vs Shilton, or even Stapleton vs Sturrock if rumours are to be believed.
I'm no fan of James Brent by any stretch of the imagination, but I don't really care if he wants Banton played through the middle or doesn't think McHugh is any good at left-back. The only benchmark he should be using is whether our budget is being reflected in our position in the table.
Quite.Paul_Roberts":aoh9jj02 said:
I really don't believe a word of this budget argument I'm sorry. It comes from people who I agree with on most things but cant agree on this.
It's League Two. Burton have sub £3k crowds. Morecambe have sub £2k crowds (!!!!). Wycombe have pretty small crowds. Look how they're all doing. You don't need 'investment' to do well in this league. You do in the championship, to a slightly lesser extent you do in League One. You don't in this league. You need a bit of canniness and knowhow and a creative desire to get the best out of the players that you have.
Paul_Roberts":1so4s5le said:
Really? I'd rather a Chairman who could see when things on the pitch were going awry and have enough knowledge of the sport to be able to hold a conversation with any manager along the lines of 'how are you going to improve results' and actually understand the answer. I'd rather hope that a Chairman of Argyle sitting in on any interview of potential managers might be football savvy enough to ask them what kind of style of football they are going to play and how they are going to set about getting the best out of the players we have. I'd want a Chairman who knew enough about football to know if he was p!ssing good money after bad on transfers that weren't working out if the manager wasn't performing in the transfer market.
I'd be quite surprised if I was ballsing up in my job and my manager didn't try to talk to me about 'work matters'
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Damon.Lenszner
Guest
I am sure James leaves those conversations to Martyn Starnes and Colin Sexstone, both are on the Board and 'proper' football people.
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Paul_Roberts
Guest
up_the_line":w2nl3djk said:
Don't get me wrong, I've often criticised Brent's lack of football knowledge, but that doesn't mean I want him in Sheridan's ear every week. That puts unnecessary pressure on the manager, who needs to live or die by his decisions.
Funnily enough, the major error Brent made when appointing Sheridan was nothing to do with football, but more that he didn't insist on him moving his life down to Plymouth. That should be a pre-requisite for any manager of Plymouth Argyle, and that's where Brent fell short in the appointment in my view.
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Paul_Roberts
Guest
GreenSam":2k9s1fos said:
Indeed. I hope that seeing Burton, Morecambe et al flying high in the league sticks in Brent's throat. If it doesn't then it really ought to.
GreenSam":1c7w19jd said:
I'd definitely agree with Paul about Chairman interference often having a negative effect and I generally agree with you Sam that big investment isn't required for the division. But after losing Conor it was necessary to compensate that loss with investment. That investment should have been largely funded from the fee received for him, however we accepted a pitiful offer that meant we were left with far too little sum to replace him.
Perhaps for the same price as Norburn (incl. Wages) we could have got a better midfielder in, but it was an unexpected sale and thus an area Shez wasn't anticipating to recruit.
Like Tony says, Lewi and Reid was a formidable strike partnership and Sheridan has recently said that ideally that's how he wants us to be playing. But the systems that allow 2 up front is limited and the most obvious and conventional is a 4-4-2, but the balance in our midfield is too weak to play it. We're forced to play 3 in the midfield and so cannot play 2 upfront unless we go for a narrow diamond and lose width or go back to last season's botch job 3-5-2.
Sheridan should settle on an 11 and stick with it, but the guy is trying to recover from the loss of a key player without the opportunity to adequately replace. He's a bit of a slow start manager anyway, as it took until November for us to put a decent run together last season. Once it did click it was great however. If he can repeat that this season with this squad of better quality players then maybe they'll push on a bit further than last season. Though I fear we remain a midfielder short of the play offs.
spowell92":4h9p5mia said:
Anf yet am I right in thinking you fear as to whether we will meet the ballon payment? It's as if JB can't win, on the one hand you've got people moaning that we won't meet the balloon payment because we're not making enough money, on the other you've got people saying that he isn't spending enough money and should increase budgets for just about everything (players, coaches, grandstand you name it there are calls for more spending). The man can't win and I'm not sure whether to place that with an over-expectant fanbase or section of the crowd that simply want him to fail and will stop at nothing than to turn others to their way of thinking by criticising just about everything the club does.
We're by no means running smoothly but the expectations of some are simply too great of a L2 club recovering from financial uncertainty and complete mismanagement of a previous regime which had its eyes fixed on the prize at the end and not the here and now.
For me the following
1) I don't expect us to be spending vast sums on player recruitment - either fees or wages . We are league 2 . We have crowds of around 6500 and therefore have a budget to match that will not permit any stupidity .
2) I do expect us to be able to mould a team to play a system that works , that provides reasonably attacking football in style that is by it's nature therefore entertaining to watch . I want to feel that when I am driving home to Bovey Tracey ( and I know there are lots of people who go much much further ) on a freezing cold , horrible wet day in December that it has actually been worthwhile .
3) We are 8 games into the season .We had the majority of our squad in place early . We therefore had a full pre season to work on systems , shape , fitness etc . We should know by now if plan A is 4-4-2 ,Plan B 3-5-2 or C is 3-2-5 and what do do if we have to chase a game or what to do if we want to kill a game off with 5 or 10 minutes to go as Wycombe did .
4) I do expect the people in charge to have a plan for ensuring that the baloon payment is met . It can't just be left to luck and unexpected windfalls like an FA Cup match at Old Trafford or a £200k transfer fee .
5) I do not expect any club Chairman to tell me all his plans for the club - why would he . However I would hope that decisions taken would be for the benefit of PAFC long term and not short term . If there is a 12 month or 24 month or 5 year plan then by all means let us know the general out line of what is expected . Give us something to buy into and look forward to in anticipation .
6) I would like ( but do not expect as of right) for Argyle to win every game at home, to get automatic promotion or make the play offs. If it happens I will love every second of it but I also know that there are far more important things in the world .
7) I know it's here to stay but I really do hate the short termism , blame culture that exists in football generally .
1) I don't expect us to be spending vast sums on player recruitment - either fees or wages . We are league 2 . We have crowds of around 6500 and therefore have a budget to match that will not permit any stupidity .
2) I do expect us to be able to mould a team to play a system that works , that provides reasonably attacking football in style that is by it's nature therefore entertaining to watch . I want to feel that when I am driving home to Bovey Tracey ( and I know there are lots of people who go much much further ) on a freezing cold , horrible wet day in December that it has actually been worthwhile .
3) We are 8 games into the season .We had the majority of our squad in place early . We therefore had a full pre season to work on systems , shape , fitness etc . We should know by now if plan A is 4-4-2 ,Plan B 3-5-2 or C is 3-2-5 and what do do if we have to chase a game or what to do if we want to kill a game off with 5 or 10 minutes to go as Wycombe did .
4) I do expect the people in charge to have a plan for ensuring that the baloon payment is met . It can't just be left to luck and unexpected windfalls like an FA Cup match at Old Trafford or a £200k transfer fee .
5) I do not expect any club Chairman to tell me all his plans for the club - why would he . However I would hope that decisions taken would be for the benefit of PAFC long term and not short term . If there is a 12 month or 24 month or 5 year plan then by all means let us know the general out line of what is expected . Give us something to buy into and look forward to in anticipation .
6) I would like ( but do not expect as of right) for Argyle to win every game at home, to get automatic promotion or make the play offs. If it happens I will love every second of it but I also know that there are far more important things in the world .
7) I know it's here to stay but I really do hate the short termism , blame culture that exists in football generally .
You're right Ollie. He can't win as he can't deliver on any front beyond league two safety. He and Argyle are a marriage made in hell. He's unable to fulfil any developments, he's unable to salvage a plan to pay off the balloon payment, he's unable to supply enough of the footballing front for a promotion winning side. We're in a state of total limbo with Brent at the helm, not one of us knows the direction we're heading with him - although right now I'd say it's not heading for the better...
I don't want him to fail and never have, but it's becoming increasingly apparent that we're going nowhere under his control and I do feel its time for him to search for alternative owners (they were around in January by his own words, it's an avenue to explore). Apparently the PCC are bailing him out with regards to the Grandstand. Let's hope, as he's always said himself, that the club becomes a more attractive acquisition for a greater potential owner with a new and true GRANDstand. There's a whole lot of crossing fingers involved with following Argyle...
I don't want him to fail and never have, but it's becoming increasingly apparent that we're going nowhere under his control and I do feel its time for him to search for alternative owners (they were around in January by his own words, it's an avenue to explore). Apparently the PCC are bailing him out with regards to the Grandstand. Let's hope, as he's always said himself, that the club becomes a more attractive acquisition for a greater potential owner with a new and true GRANDstand. There's a whole lot of crossing fingers involved with following Argyle...