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Brief synopsis
- Thread starter PL2 3DQ
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Looking at a video from the ground what a depressing place it appears,and so many empty seats.City supporter didn’t think much of his team at all.Hopefully Argyle will be up to speed once the players of settled in the team.Play offs looking good still ,unless you write of season after 3 games like the usual suspects are doing.
My first game of the season, what's with all this long ball rubbish we look a good team when we get it down and play. The other thing I noticed why when our keeper is kicking why do we all go to one side of the pitch that's school boy football. Can't say I was that impressed to be honest and talking to their senior steward after the game even he felt the ref was a homer. COYG
Metal_Green_Mickey":1en5hv1a said:
Great post.
Point 3. We were better for the last 25 minutes, I wonder, if much like our great run last season, this was because there was no pressure or expectation? I sometimes feel our reputation as "bottlers" is not totally undeserved. We have a young squad and hopefully as time goes on true confidence will come.
My observation of the first 3 games is that we are too disjointed.... there needs to be less space between the defence, midfield and attack. We must be more compact. I'm confident this will come, as you say the full backs are getting better game on game which will help. Agree Sarcevic will make a difference.
I think we have the makings of a really good team and I'm sure we'll get there.
Also think maybe people under estimate the impact a CB like Vyner, who is really good at playing out of defence has. He made a huge difference last year. Very hard to replace with our resources.
Adams cost us again - this time with his team selection.
Bristol City was a great, backs to the wall away win where we aimed to be compact and very difficult to break down. But why are we going away to Coventry (where we should be looking to actually compete, not just defend) and playing the same team? Our best XI contains Taylor, Fox and Lameiras - not Ladapo, Songo'o and Joel Grant. Horses for courses - Songo'o especially may look fantastic in a backs-to-the-wall type game, but when we're looking to take the game to the opposition his lack of finesse and technically ability gets woefully exposed. Ladapo looks like another one to fall into this category. "Never change a winning team" is a cliche that I have never agreed with and certainly won't be changing my mind on after yesterday.
It was frustrating as well as Coventry really weren't good at all - first half they looked mediocre and in the second they were god awful, despite having a man advantage for a fair while. Any half-decent team would have seen that game out comfortably but they not only looked a little shaky at the back but were absolutely terrible going forward. Their keeper was probably their best player - Doyle looked good in midfield but that was only because we gave him the freedom to dictate and do whatever he wanted - he had so much time on the ball. The fact that we still managed to lose to a team that poor really doesn't reflect well on us.
The referee - such a shame as I was looking forward to telling the usual suspects (hi there Referee's Union) that despite the scoreline the referee was having a good game. I thought he did for 80 minutes, certainly with the big decisions - we had one penalty shout rightly turned down, their penalty was nailed on and he was absolutely correct to send Ness off. He could perhaps have given Carey a 2nd yellow as well for sarcastically clapping him for giving us a free kick - bit borderline that one but probably correct to decide that it wasn't quite worth a 2nd yellow. But then, in the last 10 he completely lost his head, somehow not giving us a penalty for the foul on Taylor, then making numerous other wrong decisions for free kicks as well. An overall 6/10 though, despite the late headloss - we have had far, far worse referees than him. What a colossal "celebrity ref" he was though - ridiculously over-the-top brandishing of cards, pointing for goal kicks and corners, and especially the Taylor incident - blows his whistle, waits at least 5 seconds to make sure everyone in the ground is looking at him, and then dramatically points the other way. Mike Dean and Trevor Kettle would have been proud.
Macey 8 MOTM - Didn't have a lot to do thanks to some profligate finishing but made a couple of really good saves and his command was excellent. Couldn't quite reach their penalty.
Moore 6 - Don't quite get some of the very generous ratings - sure, he got up and down the line very well and was defensively sound, but he just doesn't look that good technically to me - maybe it's made to look worse by the fact that on the other side ASB's is so so good. Didn't show that much quality in the final third. Still, by no means a bad game. Early days yet but both right-backs appear to not be on the same level as Threlkeld, but certainly better than Miller.
Wootton & Canavan 6 - SW started the better while Canavan looked a little shaky for the first 15. Both did pretty well overall though, winning most of their headers and most of their tackles. Can't blame them too much for the hoofing - Adams is clearly telling them to do that. It could have been more accurate hoofing though. Both got made to look worse late on when we pushed our full backs right up to provide width (no problem with that, we were chasing the game), and Cov countered this by playing long balls into the channels, dragging the centre-halves out and creating space down the middle.
ASB 6 - Much like Moore really - from what Oxford fans said I really thought he was going to be some kind of Andy Kellet-esque maverick who would be great going forward but terrible defensively. However, he was solid again yesterday, and as good as he is technically, a bit lacking in quality going forward. One cross in particular sticks in my mind, when he had all the time in the world to pick out a team-mate in the middle, and just chipped it straight into the keeper's arms.
Songo'o 5 - As I said above, when we're actually competing, he cannot play this "deepest of the 3" role at all. Coventry simply let him have the ball in deep areas and knew he wouldn't have the ability to create anything. If he's going to play in midfield it needs to be higher up in the "Ness" role - where he can press, win the ball higher up the pitch and then lay it off to a more creative team-mate. Still, I'd much prefer Ness or Sarcevic in this role and Songo'o preferably on the bench.
Ness 4 - Wasn't playing too badly up until the red card, but... what was he thinking?!? I thought captains were meant to lead by example.
Conor Grant 6 - Another performance that made me think that he's very "ok". He wasn't really bad at anything, but he doesn't have the outright strength of Songo'o, the passing range of Fox, the ball winning ability of Ness, the flair of Carey/Lameiras or the energy of Sarcevic. He wasn't bad but I want to see more from him.
Carey 6 - A class above everyone for the first 20, but then didn't see a lot of the ball and gave away a clumsy penalty. Could have been sent off as I said above - he seemed to lose his head a bit.
Joel Grant 5 - To be brutally honest, he should be in League 2 still with Exeter. He's better than Wylde but just doesn't do enough, often enough.
Ladapo 2 - I'm not making any set-in-stone judgements about any of the new signings at this early stage, but based on yesterday alone I thought Ladapo was really, really poor. Blazed his one big chance miles high and wide, didn't work the channels that well, his first touch was shocking, didn't bring the midfield into play, and blimey he was useless in the air - I genuinely think that Taylor won more headers in the first 5 minutes he was on than Ladapo won all game. Needs to show far, far more. On this basis (again, not set-in-stone yet), Southend were right to get rid.
Subs:
Lameiras 8 - Should have been on from the start - great movement and awareness, had our best chance which the keeper saved brilliantly, and was creative and energetic.
Taylor 8 - It's not just the fact that he wins aerial battles, it's the fact that he directs his headers so so well. Ladapo take note - that's how you do it. Really hope the ankle injury isn't serious - we need him, badly.
Fox 6 - Another who should have started.
What is missing from this team at the moment? I think it's down to a few things:
1) Adams making us go more direct, we're just not retaining the ball as well as we did last season. We need to be more patient with it and create openings rather than just hoofing it up to Taylor / Ladapo.
2) Late runners from midfield - tying in with the point above as not only are the centre-mids too deep to win the 2nd balls from Taylor's knock-downs, they are not presenting a goal threat in the opposition box. This was so effective for us last season and I haven't seen it yet this year. Sarcevic should hopefully help with this when he's back, but we know from last year that Ness is capable of this too.
3) Centre-backs - a lot is being made of the fact that we need more pace back there, but I think we are also missing Vyner's composure and ability to play the ball out. Point 1 above, plus the fact that none of our current centre-backs are as good at passing as Vyner was, is resulting in too much aimless hoofing.
I'm not even close to panicking about relegation or anything like that yet - we know that Adams is a good manager and will stop making these errors. He's proved in the past 3 years how good he is. But with these players I don't think we'll be mounting a play-off challenge, as we are missing a Vyner-type centre-half, a right-back as good as Threlkeld and naturally Fox is declining a bit with his age. We'll be better though once Adams picks his best team and when Sarcevic is back - we really are missing his energy in midfield.
Bristol City was a great, backs to the wall away win where we aimed to be compact and very difficult to break down. But why are we going away to Coventry (where we should be looking to actually compete, not just defend) and playing the same team? Our best XI contains Taylor, Fox and Lameiras - not Ladapo, Songo'o and Joel Grant. Horses for courses - Songo'o especially may look fantastic in a backs-to-the-wall type game, but when we're looking to take the game to the opposition his lack of finesse and technically ability gets woefully exposed. Ladapo looks like another one to fall into this category. "Never change a winning team" is a cliche that I have never agreed with and certainly won't be changing my mind on after yesterday.
It was frustrating as well as Coventry really weren't good at all - first half they looked mediocre and in the second they were god awful, despite having a man advantage for a fair while. Any half-decent team would have seen that game out comfortably but they not only looked a little shaky at the back but were absolutely terrible going forward. Their keeper was probably their best player - Doyle looked good in midfield but that was only because we gave him the freedom to dictate and do whatever he wanted - he had so much time on the ball. The fact that we still managed to lose to a team that poor really doesn't reflect well on us.
The referee - such a shame as I was looking forward to telling the usual suspects (hi there Referee's Union) that despite the scoreline the referee was having a good game. I thought he did for 80 minutes, certainly with the big decisions - we had one penalty shout rightly turned down, their penalty was nailed on and he was absolutely correct to send Ness off. He could perhaps have given Carey a 2nd yellow as well for sarcastically clapping him for giving us a free kick - bit borderline that one but probably correct to decide that it wasn't quite worth a 2nd yellow. But then, in the last 10 he completely lost his head, somehow not giving us a penalty for the foul on Taylor, then making numerous other wrong decisions for free kicks as well. An overall 6/10 though, despite the late headloss - we have had far, far worse referees than him. What a colossal "celebrity ref" he was though - ridiculously over-the-top brandishing of cards, pointing for goal kicks and corners, and especially the Taylor incident - blows his whistle, waits at least 5 seconds to make sure everyone in the ground is looking at him, and then dramatically points the other way. Mike Dean and Trevor Kettle would have been proud.
Macey 8 MOTM - Didn't have a lot to do thanks to some profligate finishing but made a couple of really good saves and his command was excellent. Couldn't quite reach their penalty.
Moore 6 - Don't quite get some of the very generous ratings - sure, he got up and down the line very well and was defensively sound, but he just doesn't look that good technically to me - maybe it's made to look worse by the fact that on the other side ASB's is so so good. Didn't show that much quality in the final third. Still, by no means a bad game. Early days yet but both right-backs appear to not be on the same level as Threlkeld, but certainly better than Miller.
Wootton & Canavan 6 - SW started the better while Canavan looked a little shaky for the first 15. Both did pretty well overall though, winning most of their headers and most of their tackles. Can't blame them too much for the hoofing - Adams is clearly telling them to do that. It could have been more accurate hoofing though. Both got made to look worse late on when we pushed our full backs right up to provide width (no problem with that, we were chasing the game), and Cov countered this by playing long balls into the channels, dragging the centre-halves out and creating space down the middle.
ASB 6 - Much like Moore really - from what Oxford fans said I really thought he was going to be some kind of Andy Kellet-esque maverick who would be great going forward but terrible defensively. However, he was solid again yesterday, and as good as he is technically, a bit lacking in quality going forward. One cross in particular sticks in my mind, when he had all the time in the world to pick out a team-mate in the middle, and just chipped it straight into the keeper's arms.
Songo'o 5 - As I said above, when we're actually competing, he cannot play this "deepest of the 3" role at all. Coventry simply let him have the ball in deep areas and knew he wouldn't have the ability to create anything. If he's going to play in midfield it needs to be higher up in the "Ness" role - where he can press, win the ball higher up the pitch and then lay it off to a more creative team-mate. Still, I'd much prefer Ness or Sarcevic in this role and Songo'o preferably on the bench.
Ness 4 - Wasn't playing too badly up until the red card, but... what was he thinking?!? I thought captains were meant to lead by example.
Conor Grant 6 - Another performance that made me think that he's very "ok". He wasn't really bad at anything, but he doesn't have the outright strength of Songo'o, the passing range of Fox, the ball winning ability of Ness, the flair of Carey/Lameiras or the energy of Sarcevic. He wasn't bad but I want to see more from him.
Carey 6 - A class above everyone for the first 20, but then didn't see a lot of the ball and gave away a clumsy penalty. Could have been sent off as I said above - he seemed to lose his head a bit.
Joel Grant 5 - To be brutally honest, he should be in League 2 still with Exeter. He's better than Wylde but just doesn't do enough, often enough.
Ladapo 2 - I'm not making any set-in-stone judgements about any of the new signings at this early stage, but based on yesterday alone I thought Ladapo was really, really poor. Blazed his one big chance miles high and wide, didn't work the channels that well, his first touch was shocking, didn't bring the midfield into play, and blimey he was useless in the air - I genuinely think that Taylor won more headers in the first 5 minutes he was on than Ladapo won all game. Needs to show far, far more. On this basis (again, not set-in-stone yet), Southend were right to get rid.
Subs:
Lameiras 8 - Should have been on from the start - great movement and awareness, had our best chance which the keeper saved brilliantly, and was creative and energetic.
Taylor 8 - It's not just the fact that he wins aerial battles, it's the fact that he directs his headers so so well. Ladapo take note - that's how you do it. Really hope the ankle injury isn't serious - we need him, badly.
Fox 6 - Another who should have started.
What is missing from this team at the moment? I think it's down to a few things:
1) Adams making us go more direct, we're just not retaining the ball as well as we did last season. We need to be more patient with it and create openings rather than just hoofing it up to Taylor / Ladapo.
2) Late runners from midfield - tying in with the point above as not only are the centre-mids too deep to win the 2nd balls from Taylor's knock-downs, they are not presenting a goal threat in the opposition box. This was so effective for us last season and I haven't seen it yet this year. Sarcevic should hopefully help with this when he's back, but we know from last year that Ness is capable of this too.
3) Centre-backs - a lot is being made of the fact that we need more pace back there, but I think we are also missing Vyner's composure and ability to play the ball out. Point 1 above, plus the fact that none of our current centre-backs are as good at passing as Vyner was, is resulting in too much aimless hoofing.
I'm not even close to panicking about relegation or anything like that yet - we know that Adams is a good manager and will stop making these errors. He's proved in the past 3 years how good he is. But with these players I don't think we'll be mounting a play-off challenge, as we are missing a Vyner-type centre-half, a right-back as good as Threlkeld and naturally Fox is declining a bit with his age. We'll be better though once Adams picks his best team and when Sarcevic is back - we really are missing his energy in midfield.
moles40":3jhswup9 said:
It's absolutely too early to write off the season but an interesting logic that 'we look good for the play offs' after 3 poor performances.
Took my grandson in an effort to divert him from being a Blade. His summary “Argyle did alright but their first touch isn’t very good. The ref was terrible;he should have given us that penalty when the ginger striker got fouled”
Didn’t help that his hero Billy Sharp scored the winner at Brammall Lane in the 93rd minute.
I’ll keep trying but a little more help from the team would help.
Didn’t help that his hero Billy Sharp scored the winner at Brammall Lane in the 93rd minute.
I’ll keep trying but a little more help from the team would help.
Balham_Green":149dmmse said:IJN":149dmmse said:A tweet by a Cov' fan. Says it all.
Yawn
Bed earlier tonight?
- Oct 31, 2010
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I hate using the officials as an excuse for losing - especially when we have been poor - but in these tighter games the fine margins make all the difference. Hopefully we will see the flip side of this poor luck later.
Bottom line is so far this season the performances have been poor. It’s still early and as we know things can change quickly but as it stands this team is in for a relegation fight with how we are playing so far.
I've watched the extended highlights and found the taylor non penalty in the whole match replay.
There penalty looks very generous with minimal or no contact, however Carey lunging in makes it very easy for a ref to give a decision.
Of the 2 ness bookings I think the first was more harsh. It didn't actually inhibit the attack much and a word from the ref afterwards would have survived. The second was just silly by ness. I don't know the wording of the rule but he deliberately handled the ball, so irrespective of the position on the pitch it is liable to attract a caution.
The taylor incident does look very much like he overruns the ball and then his legs just give way underneath him with no evidence of contact. Based on that a booking for simulation looks correct, unfortunately.
Overall from what I have seen we don't quite look ' at it' as a team. We give teams alot of space and then get there to fill it rather than full on pressing. Hopefully that energy will come as the players settle.
Also in the 2 games he has played canavan looks susceptible to a diagonal run from right to left in behind him. Whether he isn't getting a call I don't know but it has led to goal attempts each time. Might be coincidence its him but just noticed it, hopefully isn't a trend.
There penalty looks very generous with minimal or no contact, however Carey lunging in makes it very easy for a ref to give a decision.
Of the 2 ness bookings I think the first was more harsh. It didn't actually inhibit the attack much and a word from the ref afterwards would have survived. The second was just silly by ness. I don't know the wording of the rule but he deliberately handled the ball, so irrespective of the position on the pitch it is liable to attract a caution.
The taylor incident does look very much like he overruns the ball and then his legs just give way underneath him with no evidence of contact. Based on that a booking for simulation looks correct, unfortunately.
Overall from what I have seen we don't quite look ' at it' as a team. We give teams alot of space and then get there to fill it rather than full on pressing. Hopefully that energy will come as the players settle.
Also in the 2 games he has played canavan looks susceptible to a diagonal run from right to left in behind him. Whether he isn't getting a call I don't know but it has led to goal attempts each time. Might be coincidence its him but just noticed it, hopefully isn't a trend.