Derek Adams at Senior Greens

[davie nine]

You are much closer to convincing me than any of the other serial ‘Adams Out’ posters, Mickey.

Keep trying but I still believe DA could put out a decent League 1 squad given adequate resources.

 

[Metal Green Mickey]

You are much closer to convincing me than any of the other serial ‘Adams Out’ posters, Mickey.

Keep trying but I still believe DA could put out a decent League 1 squad given adequate resources.

Weird thing is, l don’t want to convert you. I actually want to end up wrong. As that would mean a successful Argyle.

 

[Ave IT]

But Mickey - this other scatter chart together with the other I posted (I do love these things!) show that we are pretty much bang average at creating chances and having shots but our defense is prettty dire in terms of conceding chances & goals per shot. So I'm not entirely convinced of your claim that DA is particularly negative ...... sure he is prone to trying to shut-up shop when we get a lead - but we do create and have played some good stuff at times .... even if I do agree we have players that if let off the leash a bit could do more. But I think you overstate your case.

 

[IJN]

My thoughts on football have always been the same.

It's a very very simple game, but some people like to complicate it.

 

[Lesley Somerville]

It's not as simple as golf

 

[Metal Green Mickey]

But Mickey - this other scatter chart together with the other I posted (I do love these things!) show that we are pretty much bang average at creating chances and having shots but our defense is prettty dire in terms of conceding chances & goals per shot. So I'm not entirely convinced of your claim that DA is particularly negative ...... sure he is prone to trying to shut-up shop when we get a lead - but we do create and have played some good stuff at times .... even if I do agree we have players that if let off the leash a bit could do more. But I think you overstate your case.

Here’s a fact. No fancy graph lm afraid. Although yours looks good.

22 away games. 19 goals. Only Wimbledon have scored less.

Last season. 23 away games 21 goals. Only relegated MK Dons has less.

Pretty damning fact over two seasons.

I’ve always said the main problem is away from home, although when l watch them at times at HP l see issues as to why we struggle away from home.

Stats are all well and good, but let’s remember that only two or so months ago we could of produced a table saying we were top (or near enough) of the form table in league one. Where has that table got us now with two games to go?

Also that table doesn’t tell us how poor the football we play is. Like l always maintained. I know Argyle are not financially competitive in this league but it doesn’t stop us surely from playing better standard of football than we do. Results are everything to fans. I’m slightly different. I don’t expect us to win every week because realistically we’ve not got that financial muscle to even do it in the lower leagues. However, as the goals away from home show lm afraid it’s not like we are having at teams and that is what is so disappointing.

Oh and l do agree with you about the defence. I have often stated from from league two how we don’t press and stand off opposition players. I agree with you it’s even bigger issue than going forward. I have mentioned it many seasons before this one. Charlton away brief synopsis last year for example. AFC Wimbledon at home (a match we won) where Lyle Taylor caused us endless issues just by running at us. Even Leyton Orient in league 2 at HP when Macey gave us the run around.

I try to focus on a particular issue that really bugs me and the goal scoring away from home is it. However, your right. Defensively it’s even worse of a mess because at least in league 2 away from home we were competitive. The defensive issues have been their throughout Adams tenure.

 

[IJN]

It's not as simple as golf

That proves you know absolutely zero about golf. :lol:

 

[Ave IT]

I think you have to assume that a 'shot' has some sensible definition .... here's another lovely chart showing again we are bang average for shots taken and shots taken per goal scored. OK - so we're not good away - fair point but that doesn't mean we are especially negative overall does it? The evidence would suggest our problem is defence.

 

[Lesley Somerville]

It's not as simple as golf

That proves you know absolutely zero about golf. :lol:

It's all a load of balls when you get to the nitty gritty

 

[Metal Green Mickey]

I think you have to assume that a 'shot' has some sensible definition .... here's another lovely chart showing again we are bang average for shots taken and shots taken per goal scored. OK - so we're not good away - fair point but that doesn't mean we are especially negative overall does it? The evidence would suggest our problem is defence.

To be fair to you l edited my previous post to explain your bang on about the defensive issues. Like l said it’s not like l haven’t mentioned these issues either and highlighted them.

Like l said to Davie. Watch Argyle players as they attack. Count the number that actually get in the box. Argyle simply don’t have any pace, in midfield, to get up and down the pitch regularly. And yes Adams pointed this out but this is 12 months on from last season when we had exactly the same issue.

Don’t want to repeat myself but look at the distance from the forward to the midfield.

Look at the tactical substitutions he makes in the second half. Instead of taking the initiative he waits to see what opposition managers do. Gillingham and Barnsley prime examples. This then gives their sides more impetus. Doesn’t sound like the actions of a positive manager by sitting on his hands and doing nothing as opposition managers make changes that either change the game in their favour or look to keep the momentum they already have.

 

[Lesley Somerville]

I think you have to assume that a 'shot' has some sensible definition .... here's another lovely chart showing again we are bang average for shots taken and shots taken per goal scored. OK - so we're not good away - fair point but that doesn't mean we are especially negative overall does it? The evidence would suggest our problem is defence.

I LOVE these graphs. Are there any which include more recent games? Where do you get them? I'm getting a bit obsessed. Maybe I should take up golf as a distraction?!?

 

[PL2 3DQ]

Currently we have the joint 7th highest amount of shots in League One at 520, of these 179 have been on target - the 15th best.
10% of all shots result in goals, only five other teams have a worse record. 29% of shots on target result in goals, the 14th best.
Barnsley have had 686 shots, the highest in L1 and 89 more than Luton in second place. 251 were on target, the second best.

For shots against Argyle have faced 605 - the second worst in L1, 248 were on target, again the second worst in L1. And the fourth worst amount of goals conceded in L1.

So in attack we have had a very good number of goal attempts but frequently fail to get them on target and when on target only just under a third result in a goal. The two sitters missed by Sarcevic at Bristol Rovers and Gillingham are good examples.

Defensively we allow too many shots, too many on target and too many goals.

Stating the obvious.

http://www.footstats.co.uk

Also, earlier in the season someone on Pasoti noticed the number of times the players missed the target when warming up in shooting practice before games, not a scientific conclusion but it has been proven correct in actual games throughout the season.
The defence has been unsettled for most of the season and liable to concede goals but the front four of Ladapo, Carey, Sarcevic and Lameiras/J Grant have played regularly all season.
Who coaches the front attacking players?

 

[Metal Green Mickey]

Currently we have the joint 7th highest amount of shots in League One at 520, of these 179 have been on target - the 15th best.
10% of all shots result in goals, only five other teams have a worse record. 29% of shots on target result in goals, the 14th best.
Barnsley have had 686 shots, the highest in L1 and 89 more than Luton in second place. 251 were on target, the second best.

For shots against Argyle have faced 605 - the second worst in L1, 248 were on target, again the second worst in L1. And the fourth worst amount of goals conceded in L1.

So in attack we have had a very good number of goal attempts but frequently fail to get them on target and when on target only just under a third result in a goal. The two sitters missed by Sarcevic at Bristol Rovers and Gillingham are good examples.

Defensively we allow too many shots, too many on target and too many goals.

Stating the obvious.

Ok, so doesn’t this highlight one main point. Coaching?

If we are not hitting the target on a regular basis can’t we attribute this to a coaching attacking issue?

Or if we are allowing too many shots on target can’t we attribute this to a coaching defensive issue?

Aren’t these the type of thing a manager and coaching staff are paid to do to rectify these issues. Again l point out these defensive issues and lack of shots on target/goals (away from home) could of been highlighted last year as issues.

So that doesn’t say a lot in the defensive of Adams and his coaching staff that 12 months on and the problems still persist. Last season the only way the defensive issues was improved was because they got Vyner in. It wasn’t because they ironed out the problems in the training field.

At our level, isn’t that what we desperately need from a coach? Someone who can make average players/teams better than they really are by good coaching.

 

[Ave IT]

I got the charts from experimental361.com Lesley ...... a treasure trove for stat nerds
https://experimental361.com/2019/03/19/ ... -mar-2019/

I’m not completely disagreeing with you Mickey. You do have a point about our striker frequently being isolated, us not getting bodies in the box, our lack of pace and mobility all over the park, and DA’s instinctive shut-up-shop mentality when we get a lead or even equalise against a good side. But it’s not THAT bad ….. if there was a scale of attack mindedness from 0 to 10 with Tony Pulis’s Argyle reign at one end and Kevin Keegan’s Newcastle at the other I’d put Adams at about 5. But what’s done for us this season is the defence. Attacking has been pretty average as the stats show – if you take out the top 7 our goals scored is much of a muchness with the rest of the league …… Coventry in 8th place have scored one more than us and Blackpool in 9th place three less – but we have conceded 22 and 26 goals more!!

I like Foxy, and Sarcevic and Songo and Sawyer as individual players - each with something to offer but together in the same team they haven’t got the legs or mobility to get forward to support and get bodies in the box. When they do we’re exposed horribly as they can’t get back. We can blame Adams for selection & recruitment – he has made mistakes no doubt. But I’d argue what you’re calling his negative attitude is more a reaction to what he’s got. He does play Lameiras & Carey regularly and he has on occasions tried Taylor and Ladapo. If he got the recruitment right I think he would have more of a go……. Oh for box-to-box man like David Friio in his pomp !!!!

 

[oldage]

My thoughts on football have always been the same.

It's a very very simple game, but some people like to complicate it.

For once I agree with you Ian!