Derek Adams at Senior Greens

[davie nine]

Ruben Lameiras received his Senior Greens Player of the Season award and thanked us. On behalf the team he assured us that they would all be fully committed to the next 2 games.
‘Key players’ doubtful are Letheren and Ladapo. No point in concealing when it was revealed to 200+ Senior Greens.
DA accepts full responsibility for playing matters this season and for the previous 3 seasons. He encouraged members to ask questions by saying “Come on, give it a go” when there was a brief pause in questioning.
Our playing budget was 5th lowest in our league last season per EFL. Current season not known yet.
Admitted that defence has not been compact enough and was particularly disappointed with conceding late goals recently against Bristol Rovers and Blackpool.
Also, concerned that, apart from Ladapo, Lameiras and Carey other midfielders had not contributed with goals. Joel Grant’s injury was a major blow as he was having a good season.
He explained attempts to resolve problems with Herald before the ban was decided necessary.
Following this meeting, I am not changing my pro Adams stance. I assume that MGM, rsp4 and oldage were not there to ask questions as I am sure that he would have been prepared to answer their questions frankly.

The way this thread has turned out proves it is right not to go.

You went there and enjoyed it. You liked what he said. Why would l go to change a “positive” atmosphere for you, and l dare say many others that were there at the meeting.

I’m afraid l have listened to him over and over again. What you have to remember Davie is that for me the game and style Adams talks about isn’t the football l witness.

I’m afraid to me all he telling people is excuses. For example, at the end of last season we were one of the lowest goal scoring teams away from home. We knew Ness, Fox and Sarcevic didn’t contribute enough goals over a year ago. Today he is telling you there aren’t enough goals coming from midfield. Well ....sorry...but ya Duh!!! A year one that midfield, if it’s injury free is still our first choice along with Songo’o. 12 months on and now he is telling people it’s an issue. Surely, this performance/statistical bloke Adams has was pointing this out last season.

That’s just one issue. There are so many more.

Does any remember Holloway era. Brilliant talker. Green blood...and all that nonsense. ...as a fan base we loved him. It was just words. He left when a better opportunity came along. Holloway and Adams are educated, bright people. When they talk it’s bound to sound good. However, as l learnt with Holloway it’s just sound bites.

Actions speak louder than words.

So l judge Adams not what he says, but what l see on the pitch. And what l see on the pitch isn’t good. At least Holloway could back up his fancy talk by his team performing on the pitch.

Glad you think he is the right bloke but for me if we end up in league 2 l think that’s the only FACT that’s points to Adams, Wotton and Nancekivell being the wrong people to take Argyle forward. It will be four years wasted.

As I have said before, Mickey, I do respect your opinion.
I would add that he was asked about his alleged tactics of being too defensive. His response was to ask how he can be accused of that when he includes Carey, Ladapo and Lameiras in the same team.
That’s why I wish that you were there to challenge him on this as the questioner didn’t.
I guess one argument would be that he didn’t use Lameiras regularly until January. He did mention Joel Grant who was playing well in an attacking role and keeping Lameiras out until his unfortunate injury.
Incidentally, I suspect that he may leave Lameiras out of the starting line up on Saturday. I would be disappointed if that happened but if he did that and we won I would be delighted.

I do respect yours and others who think differently from me too.

My Dad apparently was going to go to the meeting. He often has given me stick for my view on Adams. However, last few weeks he has had enough of him. Wants him gone too. I will be intrigued to see if Adams said enough to “win him back on side”.

So just to explain Adams often mentions the budget. However, l feel the budget has no argument when it comes down to plain coaching methods. For example, you say you talk about how Adams can’t understand why his tactics are “defensive” when he has Carey, Lameiras, Ladapo etc ....on the pitch. Well if we look at Barnsley, they were very good. Yet, one of the best things about them was options on the ball. Countless times they had five or six players ahead of the person with the ball. Countless times they had around at least five players in the penalty box. So many options. It was making average crosses, into good ones because there was players in goal scoring positions.

Now let’s take Argyle. Next time you watch. Look at how many get ahead of Ladapo/Taylor. It maybe one or possibly two. Have a look at how many frequently get in the box. Look at how many options the player on the ball has. Often it’s two, maybe three.

For me you have to get a number of players forward to score. We have the creative players like Carey and Lameiras but who are the options ahead of them. Fox, Ness, Sarcevic or maybe Songo’o??? Players who aren’t don’t get in the box enough or don’t look like scoring. No pace in any of them to get up and down the pitch. And yes he addressed this issue today but lm afraid it’s been staring him in the face since last season and he decided to go with the same group of midfielders.

However, even with the players we have you could tactically change it. Or maybe coach players he hasn’t selected enough to learn to play in those positions and try and run behind the forwards more. For example, ASB. Plays with both feet. Good on the ball and has pace. Neither of these things have been done this year. You may laugh and think that’s an absurd idea but look what happened to Conor Grant when he was put in at left back. Totally transformation because the play was ahead of him and he could use his passing range.

Btw, you are spot on about Joel Grant. He was playing very well. However, that’s why he brought in more players last season. For competition. However, he doesn’t seem to have much faith in them as, when fit, he reverts to the same group of 12-13 players with similar tactics every game.

Very well presented, Mickey. That’s why I wish that you were there to challenge him.
Do you not think that if DA had the luxury of the players and budget that the Barnsley manager has he would produce similar results?

 

[Adam R]

Don't get to watch often but was evident against Gillingham that Carey and Lameiras work well together but that means they are often within 10 yards of each other. Easy to defend or crowd out by doubling up or simply forcing them towards the touch line.

What we lack is players to take advantage of the space they create. Those two are a class above and sadly no-one else is on their wavelength or able to take advantage of the situations they create.

 

[oldage]

The thing that really irritates me about Oldage, amongst others, is how he criticises Derek whatever he does. Derek talks openly to a group, you respond by saying “Adams… can hold an audience by stating the obvious”. Derek doesn’t talk openly, and you vent anger, for being cagey and not open, towards him unnecessarily. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t.
I once met Adams in town, he was just walking around. He stopped and chatted to a few fans, and I stopped and had a chat. The chat continued, and he offered to buy me a coffee and continue our chat. 20 mins later, we shook hands and went our separate ways.
My point is, how Derek articulates himself, out of a football environment, is completely different to that, in the football environment. I bet football is horrid and unforgiving, and he is understandably fed up when he is constantly berated. He is human, like myself and probably like Oldage.
I am probably not his biggest fan, but I have every intention of supporting the team and him, until he departs this football club.

Not particularly worried if I irritate you are not.
Adams is a very good public speaker who performs in front of any captive audience who hangs onto his every word. Reflect on what he said yesterday and you will realise you have learned very little new but were entertained. Pity his style of football rarely does. MGM is spot on with his comments.

We actually were given a lot of information and learnt quite a lot. As I have said to Adams recently, you’ve become far more open in public about things at the Club then you were when you first joined.

What did you learn and what information did he give regarding the abysmal football served up this season?

 

[Lesley Somerville]

No. You haven’t misunderstood. That is what he said but, as I said, I did not ask the question and neither the questioner or anyone else challenged him.
Pity you weren’t there to tell him he is out of his depth, eh?

What have I misunderstood? I'd be more than happy to discuss football with DA if the opportunity arises. I really would like to understand his thinking. I might then feel more confident that he's the right man for the job.

 

[Lesley Somerville]

Oh sorry, I misread that. So he said what he said and I haven't misunderstood anything. A previous poster makes my point about attacking football. And as others have said, a pleasant social event is not the place to challenge DA, it would be rude. But someone at the club should be challenging him, or maybe he should be asking himself these questions? The bottom line is still the same - we are in serious danger of being relegated, we have had a disappointing season throughout, and there has been little to 'spark joy' in our football. I support all the other good things going on at the club, and I'm more than prepared to accept that DA is a lovely, intelligent, hard working guy. I just don't think he's the right person to be in charge of my/our club.

 

[HC Green]

Oh sorry, I misread that. So he said what he said and I haven't misunderstood anything. A previous poster makes my point about attacking football. And as others have said, a pleasant social event is not the place to challenge DA, it would be rude. But someone at the club should be challenging him, or maybe he should be asking himself these questions? The bottom line is still the same - we are in serious danger of being relegated, we have had a disappointing season throughout, and there has been little to 'spark joy' in our football. I support all the other good things going on at the club, and I'm more than prepared to accept that DA is a lovely, intelligent, hard working guy. I just don't think he's the right person to be in charge of my/our club.

It wasn’t a ‘pleasant social occasion’ it was a Q & A session with the manager, would stopping Adams in Armada Way when he is on his way to or from shopping or outside Home Park when he is on the way to or from Harper’s Park be more appropriate?

It does seem that those that don’t like Adams always seem to dismiss these events as either not being the appropriate forum or that the audiences are stooges or dunces.

 

[davie nine]

No. You haven’t misunderstood. That is what he said but, as I said, I did not ask the question and neither the questioner or anyone else challenged him.
Pity you weren’t there to tell him he is out of his depth, eh?

What have I misunderstood? I'd be more than happy to discuss football with DA if the opportunity arises. I really would like to understand his thinking. I might then feel more confident that he's the right man for the job.

Read my response again. You said ‘unless I have misunderstood something’. I said you HAVEN’T misunderstood.

Ah!! Just read your next post.

 

[davie nine]

Oh sorry, I misread that. So he said what he said and I haven't misunderstood anything. A previous poster makes my point about attacking football. And as others have said, a pleasant social event is not the place to challenge DA, it would be rude. But someone at the club should be challenging him, or maybe he should be asking himself these questions? The bottom line is still the same - we are in serious danger of being relegated, we have had a disappointing season throughout, and there has been little to 'spark joy' in our football. I support all the other good things going on at the club, and I'm more than prepared to accept that DA is a lovely, intelligent, hard working guy. I just don't think he's the right person to be in charge of my/our club.

It wasn’t a ‘pleasant social occasion’ it was a Q & A session with the manager, would stopping Adams in Armada Way when he is on his way to or from shopping or outside Hijome Park when he is on the way to or from Harper’s Park be more appropriate?

It does seem that those that don’t like Adams always seem to dismiss these events as either not being the appropriate forum or that the audiences are stooges or dunces.

Exactly. He positively encouraged us to “come on, have a go” to ask him questions. His only proviso was that he would not answer questions about individual signings. By that, I assumed that he meant that he would not discuss signings who have rarely featured since their arrival. Seems reasonable to me.

 

[oldage]

But my question is still not being answered.What did those who attended learn or get information about regarding the terrible season Adams has overseen?

 

[HC Green]

But my question is still not being answered.What did those who attended learn or get information about regarding the terrible season Adams has overseen?

Lots, he answered questions for 45 minutes.

Summing up the two main themes, lack of goals despite creating far more chances than most other teams in the League, he used Barnsley as an example of a team that have created fewer chances.
Conceding too many goals, there hasn’t been a consistent defence due to injuries, illnesses or poor form.

 

[Boscombe Green]

But my question is still not being answered.What did those who attended learn or get information about regarding the terrible season Adams has overseen?

The people who attended had their questions answered. They had no responsibility to ask your questions.

On the other point would we have done better this season without Carey and Lameiras. Playing 'flair' midfielders could be his biggest mistake thisi season and I can't see many other managers at this level doing it.

 

[Ave IT]

But my question is still not being answered.What did those who attended learn or get information about regarding the terrible season Adams has overseen?

Lots, he answered questions for 45 minutes.

Summing up the two main themes, lack of goals despite creating far more chances than most other teams in the League, he used Barnsley as an example of a team that have created fewer chances.
Conceding too many goals, there hasn’t been a consistent defence due to injuries, illnesses or poor form.

Sorry but that's got to be nonsense ...... what stats did he have to back that claim up?

Have a look at this stat - unless we've gone on a mad attacking frenzy i somehow missed in the last month .....Barnsley are in the bottom right hand corner :lol:

 

[oldage]

But my question is still not being answered.What did those who attended learn or get information about regarding the terrible season Adams has overseen?

The people who attended had their questions answered. They had no responsibility to ask your questions.

On the other point would we have done better this season without Carey and Lameiras. Playing 'flair' midfielders could be his biggest mistake thisi season and I can't see many other managers at this level doing it.

In case you cannot understand the difference,those who attended presumably did have their questions answered but my point is that despite those answers what new information was gleaned? I don't want anybody asking questions on my behalf as I am quite capable of doing that myself. If you are seriously suggesting that dropping Carey and Lameiras could be the reason for our absymal season I think you need to question your understanding of the game of football.

 

[Ave IT]

But my question is still not being answered.What did those who attended learn or get information about regarding the terrible season Adams has overseen?

On the other point would we have done better this season without Carey and Lameiras. Playing 'flair' midfielders could be his biggest mistake thisi season and I can't see many other managers at this level doing it.

So Adams himself says our main problem is that only 3 players have contributed significantly to our goal tally this season …… and the answer is to drop two of them?? :doh:

 

[Metal Green Mickey]

Ruben Lameiras received his Senior Greens Player of the Season award and thanked us. On behalf the team he assured us that they would all be fully committed to the next 2 games.
‘Key players’ doubtful are Letheren and Ladapo. No point in concealing when it was revealed to 200+ Senior Greens.
DA accepts full responsibility for playing matters this season and for the previous 3 seasons. He encouraged members to ask questions by saying “Come on, give it a go” when there was a brief pause in questioning.
Our playing budget was 5th lowest in our league last season per EFL. Current season not known yet.
Admitted that defence has not been compact enough and was particularly disappointed with conceding late goals recently against Bristol Rovers and Blackpool.
Also, concerned that, apart from Ladapo, Lameiras and Carey other midfielders had not contributed with goals. Joel Grant’s injury was a major blow as he was having a good season.
He explained attempts to resolve problems with Herald before the ban was decided necessary.
Following this meeting, I am not changing my pro Adams stance. I assume that MGM, rsp4 and oldage were not there to ask questions as I am sure that he would have been prepared to answer their questions frankly.

The way this thread has turned out proves it is right not to go.

You went there and enjoyed it. You liked what he said. Why would l go to change a “positive” atmosphere for you, and l dare say many others that were there at the meeting.

I’m afraid l have listened to him over and over again. What you have to remember Davie is that for me the game and style Adams talks about isn’t the football l witness.

I’m afraid to me all he telling people is excuses. For example, at the end of last season we were one of the lowest goal scoring teams away from home. We knew Ness, Fox and Sarcevic didn’t contribute enough goals over a year ago. Today he is telling you there aren’t enough goals coming from midfield. Well ....sorry...but ya Duh!!! A year one that midfield, if it’s injury free is still our first choice along with Songo’o. 12 months on and now he is telling people it’s an issue. Surely, this performance/statistical bloke Adams has was pointing this out last season.

That’s just one issue. There are so many more.

Does any remember Holloway era. Brilliant talker. Green blood...and all that nonsense. ...as a fan base we loved him. It was just words. He left when a better opportunity came along. Holloway and Adams are educated, bright people. When they talk it’s bound to sound good. However, as l learnt with Holloway it’s just sound bites.

Actions speak louder than words.

So l judge Adams not what he says, but what l see on the pitch. And what l see on the pitch isn’t good. At least Holloway could back up his fancy talk by his team performing on the pitch.

Glad you think he is the right bloke but for me if we end up in league 2 l think that’s the only FACT that’s points to Adams, Wotton and Nancekivell being the wrong people to take Argyle forward. It will be four years wasted.

As I have said before, Mickey, I do respect your opinion.
I would add that he was asked about his alleged tactics of being too defensive. His response was to ask how he can be accused of that when he includes Carey, Ladapo and Lameiras in the same team.
That’s why I wish that you were there to challenge him on this as the questioner didn’t.
I guess one argument would be that he didn’t use Lameiras regularly until January. He did mention Joel Grant who was playing well in an attacking role and keeping Lameiras out until his unfortunate injury.
Incidentally, I suspect that he may leave Lameiras out of the starting line up on Saturday. I would be disappointed if that happened but if he did that and we won I would be delighted.

I do respect yours and others who think differently from me too.

My Dad apparently was going to go to the meeting. He often has given me stick for my view on Adams. However, last few weeks he has had enough of him. Wants him gone too. I will be intrigued to see if Adams said enough to “win him back on side”.

So just to explain Adams often mentions the budget. However, l feel the budget has no argument when it comes down to plain coaching methods. For example, you say you talk about how Adams can’t understand why his tactics are “defensive” when he has Carey, Lameiras, Ladapo etc ....on the pitch. Well if we look at Barnsley, they were very good. Yet, one of the best things about them was options on the ball. Countless times they had five or six players ahead of the person with the ball. Countless times they had around at least five players in the penalty box. So many options. It was making average crosses, into good ones because there was players in goal scoring positions.

Now let’s take Argyle. Next time you watch. Look at how many get ahead of Ladapo/Taylor. It maybe one or possibly two. Have a look at how many frequently get in the box. Look at how many options the player on the ball has. Often it’s two, maybe three.

For me you have to get a number of players forward to score. We have the creative players like Carey and Lameiras but who are the options ahead of them. Fox, Ness, Sarcevic or maybe Songo’o??? Players who aren’t don’t get in the box enough or don’t look like scoring. No pace in any of them to get up and down the pitch. And yes he addressed this issue today but lm afraid it’s been staring him in the face since last season and he decided to go with the same group of midfielders.

However, even with the players we have you could tactically change it. Or maybe coach players he hasn’t selected enough to learn to play in those positions and try and run behind the forwards more. For example, ASB. Plays with both feet. Good on the ball and has pace. Neither of these things have been done this year. You may laugh and think that’s an absurd idea but look what happened to Conor Grant when he was put in at left back. Totally transformation because the play was ahead of him and he could use his passing range.

Btw, you are spot on about Joel Grant. He was playing very well. However, that’s why he brought in more players last season. For competition. However, he doesn’t seem to have much faith in them as, when fit, he reverts to the same group of 12-13 players with similar tactics every game.

Very well presented, Mickey. That’s why I wish that you were there to challenge him.
Do you not think that if DA had the luxury of the players and budget that the Barnsley manager has he would produce similar results?

Well like l said you don’t need a budget, l feel to get players ahead of the person who has possession of the ball. You just need attacking mentality and willing runners with the energy to get up and down the pitch.

Have you seen in four years our system of play evolve? In league two, l remember watching Jimmy Spencer and looking behind 10 yards and there was Carey for support. Jimmy Spencer was a decent footballer at league 2 level. Had a football brain on him. Yet he never got the support he needed with his lack of pace and so became isolated. Fast forward to last Monday and Ryan Taylor. A different type of player but still will try and hold the ball upfront on his own. Often though he is isolated and lacking pace. For example, at the start of the Barnsley match Sarcevic looked to be playing almost alongside him. As the match wore on the gap grew bigger and bigger.

Basically the same problem exists four years on. A front man on his own without any lack of support.

How many times this season you see Argyle attack in “open play” 5 or more players actually get into the box, like Barnsley? You don’t need a budget to tell people to run forward.

Every pre-season Adams goes on about this training camp. The players tell us about double training sessions. So why are we watching a team that defends deep and doesn’t press the opposition like Barnsley presses us. You don’t need money to chase and run down players. Just an effort and willingness. However, l will admit if you get better technical players and get them to put that effort and commitment in then of course you would be a even better team.

Yet l don’t seem to recall Argyle physically out running sides many sides in and around them in bottom half of league one on similar budgets to us. And so l wonder what on earth is the intense training camps they do each season for?

Remember what we have witnessed Davie. A manager who when leading tries to protect what he has got. What did you see the Barnsley manager do? Make one attacking substitution after another. He could of taken off an attacking player and decided at 3-0 lets just take what we got. However, they played in that second half like they wanted more goals. Only Letheren denied them that. Now think back to when Argyle were leading games. Do we really look to score more? Or do we try to keep what we have?

Do you, hand on heart Davie, think a leopard can change his spots ? I don’t.