European Super League

[Biggs]

As a mod, I'm suggesting the Big Six is autocorrected to the Greedy Six.

Nice tweet from Argyle, by the way...

Plymouth Argyle would be nothing without you.

https://twitter.com/Only1Argyle/status/1384069963309142023

 

[greensalt]

Disgusting.

The creation of the Premier League was bad enough, leaving the remaining league clubs with even less income, but this Greedy B's Euro League would be very bad most of the other Premier league clubs too as Sky, BT etc wont want to pay nearly so much to cover a league without the greedy clubs.

 

[metroace]

Gary Neville posted this Tweet earlier which points out something important.

"This lot think they can sweep up £300m more each season than the other teams and then wander back on a Saturday and play with that advantage in the PL . Deduct points , fine heavily and embargo transfers. I hope they haven’t bought some of the other 14 clubs. #stopthesuperleague"

I hadn't realised that the way the Greedy Six want things to work is earning big bucks in their closed competition AND to take that money and use it across all the other competitions they play in. Even more reason to throw them out of all other domestic and European competition.

 

[mervyn]

Just for sheer contrary devilment I was briefly tempted to write a post in favour of it – Devil’s advocate style. But for the life of me couldn’t think of any argument that wouldn’t obviously be a p-take – and frankly like all real football lovers find it difficult to contain my anger.

I hope that they have made serious misjudgement and will be so damaged by the universal outrage the announcement has provoked they will be forced to back down with ails between legs, perhaps for years. As others have said it has been on the cards for years and now they’ve finally shown their true colours.

If it did happen – then it occurred to me whether this could be analogous to the split in Rugby between the two codes? Not an exact analogy obviously – but that came about many years ago as a power struggle between the wealthy Eton types and the working class grass roots so clubs and players & clubs were banned from each others competitions then the rules also diverged. I can envisage it becoming a mega-rich football circus for streaming platforms that will be ruthlessly hyped mostly for the largely ‘un-tapped’ far -Eastern & Chinese markets. There will still be a large ‘traditional’ base for those not part of it but steadily we would see differences emerge in how the actual game is played. Maybe minor differences at first like how things like VAR is used, hand-ball rules, offsides etc…… but how long before the streaming empires want their game to have four quarters, time-outs, bigger goals, sin-bins etc….. and aren’t draws sooo boring so they’d have American-style shoot-outs or removing players until there’s a winner. It might sound a bit far-fetched but that is the logic of converting a sport into a mass entertainment industry where the only result that matters is how much money it generates.

I'm waiting for the gas man, so have more time on my hands to think and post than usual!

Interesting thought re a divergence in rules - it hadn't occurred to me before but I can totally see it happening.

I disagree that it's a bad idea though - provided the authorities don't cave and really do kick them out, I think it would be the saving of the game, a desperately-needed recalibration.

And in case you were wondering - Juventus and Man U's share price jumped 10% on the announcement. This is happening.

The share price increase clearly proves to the owners the wisdom of their decision and makes it inevitable. It now becomes a bare knuckle fight for FIFA and UEFA to maintain their existence. I think the comparison with the historic rugby union/league split is a very apt one, with the same probable long term consequences.

 

[Mark58]

The ramifications of this are so significant that I had to pinch myself this morning when the proposals were confirmed.

So many of us have already referred to the streaming of matches worldwide and the phenomenal revenue source that this will create. Equally, points have been made about boycotts by the fans on the terraces (like Blackpool recently?) I’m just wondering how much that ‘weapon’ has been discounted by the greed merchants when they have considered the present Covid arrangements.

No fans at matches hasn’t seemed to have adversely affected the TV coverage of Prem League games. Could the owners have seen the current popularity of the Prem without fans attending and assumed that a greater cut of TV coverage for a Super League would make up for the absence of the punter paying at the gate? After all, the positioning of huge banners in the stands, thousands of cut-out fans and a soundtrack of ‘oohs’ and ‘aahs’ played over the tannoys might (to those owners) seem a small price to pay for the riches of Croesus that comes with a Super League.

Who needs fans to fill the empty stadiums? :sad:

 

[WoodsyGreen]

Gary Neville posted this Tweet earlier which points out something important.

"This lot think they can sweep up £300m more each season than the other teams and then wander back on a Saturday and play with that advantage in the PL . Deduct points , fine heavily and embargo transfers. I hope they haven’t bought some of the other 14 clubs. #stopthesuperleague"

I hadn't realised that the way the Greedy Six want things to work is earning big bucks in their closed competition AND to take that money and use it across all the other competitions they play in. Even more reason to throw them out of all other domestic and European competition.

But what he's saying could easily be levelled at the Champions League. Clubs earn tens of millions in the CL that they can take back to their leagues to increase the gap between themselves and the rest. Uefa did that.

Or how about parachute payments blowing clubs like Argyle out of the water in the EFL? The Premier League did that.

By all means use the closed-shop nature of this Euro League as a stick to beat it with, but not money. That golden ship sailed decades ago.

 

[GreenThing]

Let them go. As lower league supporters we have had the dream of winning the fa cup or playing in the top division eroded over the last 30 years. Maybe we can get that dream back.

 

[Cobi Budge]

Kick the six of them out of the Premier League - allow Leicester & West Ham to fight for the title. Promote an additional 6 throughout the pyramid to make up the numbers. Also ban access to the FA Cup & League Cup. I don’t think any of that is unreasonable. Let’s watch them fail.

 

[metroace]

Gary Neville posted this Tweet earlier which points out something important.

"This lot think they can sweep up £300m more each season than the other teams and then wander back on a Saturday and play with that advantage in the PL . Deduct points , fine heavily and embargo transfers. I hope they haven’t bought some of the other 14 clubs. #stopthesuperleague"

I hadn't realised that the way the Greedy Six want things to work is earning big bucks in their closed competition AND to take that money and use it across all the other competitions they play in. Even more reason to throw them out of all other domestic and European competition.

But what he's saying could easily be levelled at the Champions League. Clubs earn tens of millions in the CL that they can take back to their leagues to increase the gap between themselves and the rest. Uefa did that.

Or how about parachute payments blowing clubs like Argyle out of the water in the EFL? The Premier League did that.

By all means use the closed-shop nature of this Euro League as a stick to beat it with, but not money. That golden ship sailed decades ago.

Fair point. Hadn't thought that through.

But the one difference here is that the Super League teams are not there on merit. They are there because they wrote the rules to keep them there forever. At least in the EPL, teams can fall from grace.

 

[Frank Butcher]

Kick the six of them out of the Premier League - allow Leicester & West Ham to fight for the title. Promote an additional 6 throughout the pyramid to make up the numbers. Also ban access to the FA Cup & League Cup. I don’t think any of that is unreasonable. Let’s watch them fail.

Emotionally that sounds great Cobi, but despite the ever increasing imbalance the money in football is distributed from the top, even if it's in convoluted ways. Financially, English football can't afford to lose those 6 clubs. On balance I think it will happen (but hope it doesn't) and UEFA, the FA etc. will have to find away to co-exist. IMO, it's likely to be a negotiated position that looks like what's being proposed but tailored accordingly. You could for example see B teams contesting the FA Cup. Sounds like a nightmare but not that different from early rounds today if we're honest.

As others have said governing bodies at home and in Europe precipitated this outcome many years ago - it was inevitable. Share prices are rising because in business terms it makes sense for those organisations. Unfortunately when business and sport collide there is usually only one winner - franchise football USA style here we come.

 

[Biggs]

Yannick Bolasie one of the players with strong views on it.

Some real mercenaries...all values and history thrown out the window

I was a fan before I played football, I’m a fan now and will be after I finish playing...it’s not about me or anyone else it’s about the millions of fans who follow there teams week in week out regardless of success/riches..funny how it starts getting more level & man jump ship

 

[cheshiregreen]

World Cup 2022 is being played in middle of normal season surely there will even greater fixture congestion if the "Super League" is created ahead of the Qatar tournament.

Presumably the clubs will want to get their hands on the money ASAP.

Fans have more say in German club ownership so if Bayern don't join it might just be English, Spanish and Italian sides. Not very European or super.

 

[East End Green]

Kick the six of them out of the Premier League - allow Leicester & West Ham to fight for the title. Promote an additional 6 throughout the pyramid to make up the numbers. Also ban access to the FA Cup & League Cup. I don’t think any of that is unreasonable. Let’s watch them fail.

Emotionally that sounds great Cobi, but despite the ever increasing imbalance the money in football is distributed from the top, even if it's in convoluted ways. Financially, English football can't afford to lose those 6 clubs. On balance I think it will happen (but hope it doesn't) and UEFA, the FA etc. will have to find away to co-exist. IMO, it's likely to be a negotiated position that looks like what's being proposed but tailored accordingly. You could for example see B teams contesting the FA Cup. Sounds like a nightmare but not that different from early rounds today if we're honest.

As others have said governing bodies at home and in Europe precipitated this outcome many years ago - it was inevitable. Share prices are rising because in business terms it makes sense for those organisations. Unfortunately when business and sport collide there is usually only one winner - franchise football USA style here we come.

I don't agree that financially English football can't afford to lose the Six. If the marketing focus for the ESL is the global overseas streaming market, that leaves the English pyramid free to focus on the domestic consumer and sell it *hard* on the basis of, essentially, *not* the ESL.

Look at it like this:

i) To the ESL, the domestic supporter in the stands and on TV is an irrelevance and worth sacrificing for the other, way more lucrative markets;
ii) the opportunity now exists for SkyPrem and the EFL to present themselves as authentic football with all the upside of support from most UK domestic supporters;
iii) If the big stars are all pushing off to the ESL, they are taking their massive wage demands with them and a recalibration of salary expenditure happens *across the board*. So even if revenues come down because of a reduced rights deal, so do costs because of a significant overall reduction in the wage bill;
iv) the resolve of the grassroots fan to support their club against the odds and against existential financial threats is strong. I can envisage a PR campaign for authentic football being heavily promoted by the PL, FL and Sky - no doubt with some underhand support from DMCS etc.

 

[PL2 3DQ]

If these six clubs are banned from the Premier League the future TV money won't be as good which will affect lower league teams who receive solidarity payments etc from the PL.

For the 2019/2020 season Argyle received a total of £1.17 million from the Premier League, this is an annual payment and doesn't include the recent Covid rescue payments.

So can lower league teams like Argyle operate with much lower payments from the PL?

 

[East End Green]

If these six clubs are banned from the Premier League the future TV money won't be as good which will affect lower league teams who receive solidarity payments etc from the PL.

For the 2019/2020 season Argyle received a total of £1.17 million from the Premier League, this is an annual payment and doesn't include the recent Covid rescue payments.

So can lower league teams like Argyle operate with much lower payments from the PL?

If the Six are banned, there'll be a major restructure of governance and (I'd bet) some government/UEFA support for lower league clubs to help them adjust. Not to mention new commercial opportunities - a sponsorship deal with 'supporters of real football" as a tagline.

What the pandemic has shown is that top to bottom the UK game *can* find ways of living without major sources of revenue. A year ago, everyone was predicting a dozen or more League clubs would fold. That hasn't happened - ways were found up and down and round and through to plug the financial hole *enough* to get clubs through the year. So it would be with this. If only the governing bodies can see this as an opportunity to finally be rid of the albatross around the game's neck, this could be amazing.

I see there is some talk that it might be possible to bar ESL teams from using their historic, geographical names. Would it make a difference in Bangkok or Mumbai if they were cheering for Liverpool or Mersey Reds? Not sure....