Final

[Balham Green]

There was one angle that suggested the defender's hand moved towards the ball but in my opinion not deliberately enough to be a penalty.

VAR or no VAR though, the referee's decision is still final. Pundits keep saying that it wasn't a clear and obvious error but I would say he didn't give it originally because he didn't see the ball hit the hand. VAR suggesting he has another look is the way forward though. He could still have said no pen.

Final proof that VAR doesn’t stop referees making incorrect decisions then. As someone who’s actually attended a VAR match I would never trade off an occasional correct descision for the disruption in the flow of the game it causes. Being in the stadium watching inexplicable pauses and decisions in play are the biggest nonsense I’ve ever witnessed at a match. Bin it.

VAR is still a work in progress and informing those in attendance of what is going on is certainly something they need to work on but binning it at this stage wouldn't be giving it a fair chance.

As for your claim... "Final proof that VAR doesn’t stop referees making incorrect decisions then" You seem to have come to the conclusion that today's referee got it wrong. Well he didn't. I've checked the laws of the game and it definitely doesn't say in the opinion of With-Menace. He didn't see it in real time, VAR allowed him a further look at the incident and in HIS OPINION it was a penalty. That makes it very much a correct decision according to the laws of the game.

So the ref is always correct even when he is wrong...

 

[Balham Green]

Wasn’t it just? andyr, All mainly Thanks to the team that undeservedly lost!

Although they were better in the first half did you not hear Martin Keown's comment "are ref's frightened of Croatia" or something to that effect.

In the game against England a number of fouls deserving a booking were not given. Lovren had 3 clear fouls. The best a body check on Harry Kane who would have beaten him as the last man. Manzukic jumping for a header and slyly planting an elbow on Tippier's I think head. Amd many, many more. In the final 17 minutes the ball was in play for 7 minutes as a number of mysterious ailments overcame the Croatian players. Gamesmanship - this is something VAR should be used to eradicate. It's just cheating - same as diving.

So I was thoroughly behind France today. Croatia have won a number of free kicks by throwing themselves to the floor. In the end it was the biter was bit.

France have been the best side over the tournament for me. Allez les bleus.

Sounds to me like sour grapes cos Croatia beat England. Bit childish. They were by far the better side today but had to fight a 2 goal handicap against a good side. France have played well in short spells and strong defensively but also often unimpressive. Anyway now back to the media obsession with the Premiership. Depressing!

 

[Pilgrim Joe]

Wasn’t it just? andyr, All mainly Thanks to the team that undeservedly lost!

Although they were better in the first half did you not hear Martin Keown's comment "are ref's frightened of Croatia" or something to that effect.

In the game against England a number of fouls deserving a booking were not given. Lovren had 3 clear fouls. The best a body check on Harry Kane who would have beaten him as the last man. Manzukic jumping for a header and slyly planting an elbow on Tippier's I think head. Amd many, many more. In the final 17 minutes the ball was in play for 7 minutes as a number of mysterious ailments overcame the Croatian players. Gamesmanship - this is something VAR should be used to eradicate. It's just cheating - same as diving.

So I was thoroughly behind France today. Croatia have won a number of free kicks by throwing themselves to the floor. In the end it was the biter was bit.

France have been the best side over the tournament for me. Allez les bleus.

Sounds to me like sour grapes cos Croatia beat England. Bit childish. They were by far the better side today but had to fight a 2 goal handicap against a good side. France have played well in short spells and strong defensively but also often unimpressive. Anyway now back to the media obsession with the Premiership. Depressing!

Just my opinion. It is an opinions board after all.

I dislike the use of the phrase gamesmanship when it is actually cheating.

When England beat Columbia it reached a new level with their players scruffing the penalty spot and delaying the taking of the penalty. Not sour grapes as we went on to win on that occasion.

Despite my initial hesitation VAR has proven to be beneficial in weeding out the grappling and correctly allowing South Korea's first goal against Germany.

Hopefully over time it will continue to improve and the game will become more honest.

The issue as always is interpretation. For the penalty Martin Keown said it was a penalty and Alan Shearer not. Who's right?

 

[Balham Green]

Wasn’t it just? andyr, All mainly Thanks to the team that undeservedly lost!

Although they were better in the first half did you not hear Martin Keown's comment "are ref's frightened of Croatia" or something to that effect.

In the game against England a number of fouls deserving a booking were not given. Lovren had 3 clear fouls. The best a body check on Harry Kane who would have beaten him as the last man. Manzukic jumping for a header and slyly planting an elbow on Tippier's I think head. Amd many, many more. In the final 17 minutes the ball was in play for 7 minutes as a number of mysterious ailments overcame the Croatian players. Gamesmanship - this is something VAR should be used to eradicate. It's just cheating - same as diving.

So I was thoroughly behind France today. Croatia have won a number of free kicks by throwing themselves to the floor. In the end it was the biter was bit.

France have been the best side over the tournament for me. Allez les bleus.

Sounds to me like sour grapes cos Croatia beat England. Bit childish. They were by far the better side today but had to fight a 2 goal handicap against a good side. France have played well in short spells and strong defensively but also often unimpressive. Anyway now back to the media obsession with the Premiership. Depressing!

Just my opinion. It is an opinions board after all.

I dislike the use of the phrase gamesmanship when it is actually cheating.

When England beat Columbia it reached a new level with their players scruffing the penalty spot and delaying the taking of the penalty. Not sour grapes as we went on to win on that occasion.

Despite my initial hesitation VAR has proven to be beneficial in weeding out the grappling and correctly allowing South Korea's first goal against Germany.

Hopefully over time it will continue to improve and the game will become more honest.

The issue as always is interpretation. For the penalty Martin Keown said it was a penalty and Alan Shearer not. Who's right?

I don't see how it could be a pen as there was no way it was intentional

 

[Pilgrim Joe]

Wasn’t it just? andyr, All mainly Thanks to the team that undeservedly lost!

Although they were better in the first half did you not hear Martin Keown's comment "are ref's frightened of Croatia" or something to that effect.

In the game against England a number of fouls deserving a booking were not given. Lovren had 3 clear fouls. The best a body check on Harry Kane who would have beaten him as the last man. Manzukic jumping for a header and slyly planting an elbow on Tippier's I think head. Amd many, many more. In the final 17 minutes the ball was in play for 7 minutes as a number of mysterious ailments overcame the Croatian players. Gamesmanship - this is something VAR should be used to eradicate. It's just cheating - same as diving.

So I was thoroughly behind France today. Croatia have won a number of free kicks by throwing themselves to the floor. In the end it was the biter was bit.

France have been the best side over the tournament for me. Allez les bleus.

Sounds to me like sour grapes cos Croatia beat England. Bit childish. They were by far the better side today but had to fight a 2 goal handicap against a good side. France have played well in short spells and strong defensively but also often unimpressive. Anyway now back to the media obsession with the Premiership. Depressing!

Just my opinion. It is an opinions board after all.

I dislike the use of the phrase gamesmanship when it is actually cheating.

When England beat Columbia it reached a new level with their players scruffing the penalty spot and delaying the taking of the penalty. Not sour grapes as we went on to win on that occasion.

Despite my initial hesitation VAR has proven to be beneficial in weeding out the grappling and correctly allowing South Korea's first goal against Germany.

Hopefully over time it will continue to improve and the game will become more honest.

The issue as always is interpretation. For the penalty Martin Keown said it was a penalty and Alan Shearer not. Who's right?

I don't see how it could be a pen as there was no way it was intentional

And that is your opinion.

As said by Lundan Cabbie. The ref's opinion was a penalty. So it was a penalty.

 

[Balham Green]

Wasn’t it just? andyr, All mainly Thanks to the team that undeservedly lost!

Although they were better in the first half did you not hear Martin Keown's comment "are ref's frightened of Croatia" or something to that effect.

In the game against England a number of fouls deserving a booking were not given. Lovren had 3 clear fouls. The best a body check on Harry Kane who would have beaten him as the last man. Manzukic jumping for a header and slyly planting an elbow on Tippier's I think head. Amd many, many more. In the final 17 minutes the ball was in play for 7 minutes as a number of mysterious ailments overcame the Croatian players. Gamesmanship - this is something VAR should be used to eradicate. It's just cheating - same as diving.

So I was thoroughly behind France today. Croatia have won a number of free kicks by throwing themselves to the floor. In the end it was the biter was bit.

France have been the best side over the tournament for me. Allez les bleus.

Sounds to me like sour grapes cos Croatia beat England. Bit childish. They were by far the better side today but had to fight a 2 goal handicap against a good side. France have played well in short spells and strong defensively but also often unimpressive. Anyway now back to the media obsession with the Premiership. Depressing!

Just my opinion. It is an opinions board after all.

I dislike the use of the phrase gamesmanship when it is actually cheating.

When England beat Columbia it reached a new level with their players scruffing the penalty spot and delaying the taking of the penalty. Not sour grapes as we went on to win on that occasion.

Despite my initial hesitation VAR has proven to be beneficial in weeding out the grappling and correctly allowing South Korea's first goal against Germany.

Hopefully over time it will continue to improve and the game will become more honest.

The issue as always is interpretation. For the penalty Martin Keown said it was a penalty and Alan Shearer not. Who's right?

I don't see how it could be a pen as there was no way it was intentional

And that is your opinion.

As said by Lundan Cabbie. The ref's opinion was a penalty. So it was a penalty.

Pretty strong concensus that it wasn't a pen. No way ref can be sure that it's intentional.

 

[Pilgrim Joe]

Although they were better in the first half did you not hear Martin Keown's comment "are ref's frightened of Croatia" or something to that effect.

In the game against England a number of fouls deserving a booking were not given. Lovren had 3 clear fouls. The best a body check on Harry Kane who would have beaten him as the last man. Manzukic jumping for a header and slyly planting an elbow on Tippier's I think head. Amd many, many more. In the final 17 minutes the ball was in play for 7 minutes as a number of mysterious ailments overcame the Croatian players. Gamesmanship - this is something VAR should be used to eradicate. It's just cheating - same as diving.

So I was thoroughly behind France today. Croatia have won a number of free kicks by throwing themselves to the floor. In the end it was the biter was bit.

France have been the best side over the tournament for me. Allez les bleus.

Sounds to me like sour grapes cos Croatia beat England. Bit childish. They were by far the better side today but had to fight a 2 goal handicap against a good side. France have played well in short spells and strong defensively but also often unimpressive. Anyway now back to the media obsession with the Premiership. Depressing!

Just my opinion. It is an opinions board after all.

I dislike the use of the phrase gamesmanship when it is actually cheating.

When England beat Columbia it reached a new level with their players scruffing the penalty spot and delaying the taking of the penalty. Not sour grapes as we went on to win on that occasion.

Despite my initial hesitation VAR has proven to be beneficial in weeding out the grappling and correctly allowing South Korea's first goal against Germany.

Hopefully over time it will continue to improve and the game will become more honest.

The issue as always is interpretation. For the penalty Martin Keown said it was a penalty and Alan Shearer not. Who's right?

I don't see how it could be a pen as there was no way it was intentional

And that is your opinion.

As said by Lundan Cabbie. The ref's opinion was a penalty. So it was a penalty.

Pretty strong concensus that it wasn't a pen. No way ref can be sure that it's intentional.[/quote]


Pretty strong consensus by others that it was a pen, but the referee's decision was a penalty.

That's the issue with subjective decisions and VAR. Both the VAR team and the referee thought it was a penalty, while others disagree. In the match they're the only ones that count.

The same debates will still happen as did before VAR as it's down to interpretation.

 

[Lousy Pint]

Seems a shame that, after 60 odd games and mostly a superb tournament, the final is marred by incorrect decisions.
I know every game will have some wrong calls but, with VAR, I assumed this would be greatly reduced. It hasn't happened.
I will admit to not agreeing with the concept of VAR and I have seen very little to change my opinion. I just don't get it. Why was France's penalty reviewed and then still given? (No way Perisic could have done that deliberately.) And why was the free kick for the first goal not reviewed? There is no consistency.
I don't want games stopped every 5 minutes for VAR, with no guarantee the decision will be correct anyway and, for that reason, I would scrap it.

The next World Cup starts on 21 November, 2022!! The one after that has 48 teams!! What fun!

 

[Balham Green]

In the game against England a number of fouls deserving a booking were not given. Lovren had 3 clear fouls. The best a body check on Harry Kane who would have beaten him as the last man. Manzukic jumping for a header and slyly planting an elbow on Tippier's I think head. Amd many, many more. In the final 17 minutes the ball was in play for 7 minutes as a number of mysterious ailments overcame the Croatian players. Gamesmanship - this is something VAR should be used to eradicate. It's just cheating - same as diving.

So I was thoroughly behind France today. Croatia have won a number of free kicks by throwing themselves to the floor. In the end it was the biter was bit.

France have been the best side over the tournament for me. Allez les bleus.[/quote]


Sounds to me like sour grapes cos Croatia beat England. Bit childish. They were by far the better side today but had to fight a 2 goal handicap against a good side. France have played well in short spells and strong defensively but also often unimpressive. Anyway now back to the media obsession with the Premiership. Depressing![/quote]


Just my opinion. It is an opinions board after all.

I dislike the use of the phrase gamesmanship when it is actually cheating.

When England beat Columbia it reached a new level with their players scruffing the penalty spot and delaying the taking of the penalty. Not sour grapes as we went on to win on that occasion.

Despite my initial hesitation VAR has proven to be beneficial in weeding out the grappling and correctly allowing South Korea's first goal against Germany.

Hopefully over time it will continue to improve and the game will become more honest.

The issue as always is interpretation. For the penalty Martin Keown said it was a penalty and Alan Shearer not. Who's right?[/quote]


I don't see how it could be a pen as there was no way it was intentional[/quote]

And that is your opinion.

As said by Lundan Cabbie. The ref's opinion was a penalty. So it was a penalty.[/quote]


Pretty strong concensus that it wasn't a pen. No way ref can be sure that it's intentional.[/quote]


Pretty strong consensus by others that it was a pen, but the referee's decision was a penalty.

That's the issue with subjective decisions and VAR. Both the VAR team and the referee thought it was a penalty, while others disagree. In the match they're the only ones that count.

The same debates will still happen as did before VAR as it's down to interpretation.[/quote]


A consensus is a general agreement by most people so you made that bit up you didn't you? Where is the consensus you talk about? The pundits on both channels and the comments on here AGREE it should NOT have been a pen.

 

[Balham Green]

Seems a shame that, after 60 odd games and mostly a superb tournament, the final is marred by incorrect decisions.
I know every game will have some wrong calls but, with VAR, I assumed this would be greatly reduced. It hasn't happened.
I will admit to not agreeing with the concept of VAR and I have seen very little to change my opinion. I just don't get it. Why was France's penalty reviewed and then still given? (No way Perisic could have done that deliberately.) And why was the free kick for the first goal not reviewed? There is no consistency.
I don't want games stopped every 5 minutes for VAR, with no guarantee the decision will be correct anyway and, for that reason, I would scrap it.

The next World Cup starts on 21 November, 2022!! The one after that has 48 teams!! What fun!

I would say the wrong calls HAVE been greatly reduced. Its not perfect. What system is? There will always be idiotic referees who don't seem to have played the game. That's what they need to deal with. Re the free kick as you say you don't want the game stopped every 5 minutes so it is a compromise.

 

[Super horns]

Certain for some decisions there has been progress but handball really is something that divides opinion and hardly conclusive even with VAR as proved yesterday..

There were even suggestions the 1st French goal was offside .

Now we don't want VAR used for every goal etc otherwise the game will never end and people would get frustrated !

 

[with menace]

I heard a great analogy for VAR recently, drawing comparisons between drivers who know where the speed cameras are, slow down for ten seconds then carry along their merry way at 90 mph. Ok that’s how it is now, just another level of the game to manipulate. The usual suspects will still get away with it.

 

[Lundan Cabbie]

Certain for some decisions there has been progress but handball really is something that divides opinion and hardly conclusive even with VAR as proved yesterday..

There were even suggestions the 1st French goal was offside .

Now we don't want VAR used for every goal etc otherwise the game will never end and people would get frustrated !

VAR was used for EVERY goal at the WC.

As for the first French goal being offside..... it was an own goal! :facepalm:

The handball law does need to be looked at and re-written though so that everyone can be on the same song sheet.

 

[Super horns]

I know but some were trying to claim Pogba was offside when the kick came in - which he wasn't.