Jack Leslie Square: Update Updated

[Keith Whitfield]

Sympathise with what you say, Duncan and Herts, but it's a question of grasping an opportunity. The council had already said that it was going to re-name that square in the city centre when we started the Jack Leslie Square campaign. There would have been a lot more resistance to re-naming other places, even the road leading up to HP.

Hopefully, the objections will only delay the re-naming. It's annoying but that's the way we do democracy at work. The hearing apparently is on 11 September, just in time for the start of the season.

COYG

 

[IJN]

We'll have to have a get together down there. :scarf:

That bloke appears to be a bit of a nutter doesn't he?

 

[Knibbsworth]

I actually think the square is quite a good place for the renaming.

1) it's a sheltered, reflective space which seems appropriate. And clutching at straws a tad maybe, but also contains an apparently excellent vegan restaurant so that fits with it being a 'progressive' (hate that word) little spot. I bet your man Danny is a regular there :greensmile:

2) I can't really think of anything Argyle related in the city centre, so anything that points people towards Home Park or makes them aware of the club, is a good thing.

I can't really see your link between honouring the memory of Jack Leslie and eating vegan burgers?

Was Leslie a passionate vegan?

 

[Biggs]

I mean... I thought it was pretty clear that was tongue in cheek and/or clutching at (bio-degradable) straws.

 

[Keith Whitfield]

I'm in, Ian. See you there!

Yes, he does come across as someone who likes to spoil other people's fun. But, as was said earlier, let's deny him the oxygen of publicity.

COYG

 

[cheshiregreen]

Appeal dismissed

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/p ... ng-4767376

 

[Keith Whitfield]

Yes, good news for all of us behind the change. It will soon be time to have the proposed meet-up down town to celebrate the memory of one of our most famous sons. Thanks once again to everyone who supported the idea, and especially "up-the-line" for the very effective petition.
COYG

 

[briangreen]

People commenting here may not like this but, a statue is going up of Jack and there are streets around the ground which could be named after him, that should be enough.
A dozen leftwing students originally made the protest and the labour council being what they are decided to make a statement by trying to airbrush our past, the good and bad of it. Hawkins was no different from thousands of others who transported slaves, btw those slaves were actually rounded up and sold by African tribal chiefs. A practice that's still going on today to countries like Algeria and Libya, you dont hear those same people protesting about that. That must be part of our white privilege, to be blamed for everything...
Let's also recall that all this began with a career criminal called George Floyd. A man who threatened a pregnant woman with a gun and then with his mates help to beat her up and rob her. He trafficked and used drugs, laundered fake money, stole, threatened.. the man was an animal and we want to memorialise his death by using the name of an argyle legend?? I'm sorry I certainly wont be no part of that. I'd happily see the statue of Jack Leslie put up, but that's as far as it goes for me.

 

[WoodsyGreen]

I'm just thinking out loud here, Brian, but there are loads of career criminals out there who happen to be white, aren't there. I'm pretty sure there are white people who have threatened pregnant women, trafficked drugs, laundered money etc. Real scumbags.

That said, I'm pretty confident that said white criminals aren't regularly killed by black policemen in ludicrous, completely unjustifiable ways. It might happen, but I don't recall hearing about it in the media, and you'd think something like that would attract lots of coverage.

 

[EyeOpener]

I'm just thinking out loud here, Brian, but there are loads of career criminals out there who happen to be white, aren't there. I'm pretty sure there are white people who have threatened pregnant women, trafficked drugs, laundered money etc. Real scumbags.

That said, I'm pretty confident that said white criminals aren't regularly killed by black policemen in ludicrous, completely unjustifiable ways. It might happen, but I don't recall hearing about it in the media, and you'd think something like that would attract lots of coverage.[/quote]

Not at all. It really depends on who/what highlights the things that happen. You only see what is being shown to you. I served in Northern Ireland and there were countless incidents against soldiers that were never reported by the media e.g using children to lure soldiers into an ambush. On the other hand though, were the Army to ever engage in an activity that was deemed unacceptable then you could bet your bottom dollar it would be splashed across the front pages.

 

[briangreen]

I'm just thinking out loud here, Brian, but there are loads of career criminals out there who happen to be white, aren't there. I'm pretty sure there are white people who have threatened pregnant women, trafficked drugs, laundered money etc. Real scumbags.

That said, I'm pretty confident that said white criminals aren't regularly killed by black policemen in ludicrous, completely unjustifiable ways. It might happen, but I don't recall hearing about it in the media, and you'd think something like that would attract lots of coverage.

Just to add, there were 3 policeman present at that incident. One was white, one black and one (I believe) hispanic. Floyd was high on drugs and once again trying to use fake money. There have been many incidents in different countries were criminals have been restrained in the same manner, it's a common practice when especially big fellas like floyd struggle.
My whole point is they cheapen Leslie's name by using it to make a political statement. BLM are a Marxist organisation (now political party) who want to defund the police and therefore render them useless. They also see white people and their history as a major problem and would like both eradicated, a BLM member told me that. ITV and BBC have an agenda to replace many white tv hosts with bame people as in eamon Holmes and his wife and sue Barker in question of sport. This isn't levelling up the playing field, it appears to be taking over. I'm no conspiracy theorist, but the evidence is all there.

 

[up the line]

Just for clarity.
I started the petition.
I'm not a student.
I am left wing and happy to say so. I'm not sure if being left wing makes me a Marxist... I suspect in some people's opinion it probably does.
I'm not a 'member' of BLM. It's news to me that you can be a member apparently.
I raised the petition as a response to the covering up / grafittying of the Hawkins sign. I acted individually without discussing it with anyone else.
It was obviously going to come down so I thought, why not use the opportunity to suggest Jack Leslie, a positive story.
At the time I set up the petition I was unaware of the statue campaign. I'd still raise the petition anyway.
I wasn't trying to make a political statement, I just saw an opportunity to promote Jack's story.
I think we should be made aware of our past, even if it contains shameful deeds like those committed by Hawkins. But I don't think a street sign really tells you an awful lot about a person? Except they were apparently worthy of a street sign (put up in the 80s and controversial ever since).
IMO Hawkins doesn't deserve a square named after him. Jack Leslie does. Pretty simple.
Hope that clears it up

 

[IJN]

I'd totally back Patrick's post up.

Keith's original idea, Patrick's petition and quite a bit of lobbying from Pasoti to people that listened.

Well done all concerned. Sod politics, this was just right at the right time.

:clap:

 

[Mike Charlick]

I'm just thinking out loud here, Brian, but there are loads of career criminals out there who happen to be white, aren't there. I'm pretty sure there are white people who have threatened pregnant women, trafficked drugs, laundered money etc. Real scumbags.

That said, I'm pretty confident that said white criminals aren't regularly killed by black policemen in ludicrous, completely unjustifiable ways. It might happen, but I don't recall hearing about it in the media, and you'd think something like that would attract lots of coverage.

Just to add, there were 3 policeman present at that incident. One was white, one black and one (I believe) hispanic. Floyd was high on drugs and once again trying to use fake money. There have been many incidents in different countries were criminals have been restrained in the same manner, it's a common practice when especially big fellas like floyd struggle.
My whole point is they cheapen Leslie's name by using it to make a political statement. BLM are a Marxist organisation (now political party) who want to defund the police and therefore render them useless. They also see white people and their history as a major problem and would like both eradicated, a BLM member told me that. ITV and BBC have an agenda to replace many white tv hosts with bame people as in eamon Holmes and his wife and sue Barker in question of sport. This isn't levelling up the playing field, it appears to be taking over. I'm no conspiracy theorist, but the evidence is all there.

Yeah! Cor blimey! They'll be imposing their muslamic laws on us next! Thin end of the wedge I tell ya! :crazy:

 

[argobenz]

Without the likes of Hawkins and Drake we would probably be part of Spain, I don't understand the whitewashing of History, it just means we don't learn from our past. Every part of the world had slavery in some form. Statistically, there is no one alive today who is not descended from slaves. Of course slavery is bad, but the biggest slavers weren't the British or Americans it was the Romans and more recently the Chinese and of course Hitler. The whole WOKE movement is political posturing and without old reference points to compare against, how will society be able to judge it's cultural improvement?

By all means give Leslie a statue, but why the need to remove something historical, if it's so important give him a new position, not one which belonged to another. If he deserves the award then at least give him his own original one, not stuff him in someone else's position like an afterthought.

Personally I believe he was unlucky to be alive at a time where his colour didn't fit with the footballing powers, sad but that's history, now on a positive note looking at how society has progressed, if he was around now he would probably be a multi millionaire and a household name.