Jack Leslie Square: Update Updated

[IJN]

Sometime life is all about timing. It was obvious that his name was coming down and Keith’s idea was a cracker.,

I tend to agree with some of your post and I personally feel it’s far far better to keep the statues up and then explain the evils of the slave trade.

 

[Bristol Rich]

Out of interest what is the club's official position on this? I haven't seen any statements or commitments to funding? Although I may well have missed this, so I don't want to assume they aren't involved.

 

[IJN]

Nothing to do with the club at all.

Council and Argyle fans, simple as that.

 

[gaspargomez]

This is why its best to name a NEW street in honour of noteworthy people (such as Jack Lesie) instead of changing the name of existing streets. Keep politics and controversy out of it.

 

[Age of reason]

I agree with much of what Argobenz has posted above.
The renaming of the square smacked of a knee jerk reaction from a left wing council.I have to say though , as it was only named in the 80s it’s not such a big deal.

Didn’t one of the councillors petition for Drake ward to be renamed Mayflower? Ridiculous!

I do wonder if there was a statue of Hawkins on the Hoe or somewhere else quite prominent , would the council have pulled it down? I doubt it.

Politics and most definitely political movements should be kept out of sport.
A lot of these premier league players taking a knee will be playing at a World Cup built using slave Labour.
Learn from the past , celebrate Leslie and our clubs part in his career. And recognise Hawkins for the part he played in this nations history. Good and bad.

 

[briangreen]

Just for clarity.
I started the petition.
I'm not a student.
I am left wing and happy to say so. I'm not sure if being left wing makes me a Marxist... I suspect in some people's opinion it probably does.
I'm not a 'member' of BLM. It's news to me that you can be a member apparently.
I raised the petition as a response to the covering up / grafittying of the Hawkins sign. I acted individually without discussing it with anyone else.
It was obviously going to come down so I thought, why not use the opportunity to suggest Jack Leslie, a positive story.
At the time I set up the petition I was unaware of the statue campaign. I'd still raise the petition anyway.
I wasn't trying to make a political statement, I just saw an opportunity to promote Jack's story.
I think we should be made aware of our past, even if it contains shameful deeds like those committed by Hawkins. But I don't think a street sign really tells you an awful lot about a person? Except they were apparently worthy of a street sign (put up in the 80s and controversial ever since).
IMO Hawkins doesn't deserve a square named after him. Jack Leslie does. Pretty simple.
Hope that clears it up

I know some students who have written in to the council, they may not have declared themselves as students, but they are.
Up the line, I have read some of your comments when argyle play badly or lose, now hearing this you have sunk even lower in my estimation.
I'm open to hear any opinion and weigh it up with unbiased judgement, but I think I had you sussed out a long time ago. You've ignored the details I posted in my 1st and 2nd comments as most leftwing protagonists do, and I will say I have many leftwing friends, but even they know full well the BLM agenda and dont approve of it.
Btw BLM are now a political party, so it is political bias.
I love my black friends, but not BLM who dont care about black people. All they care about is fulfilling their leftwing marxist agenda.

 

[therealdsg]

Just for clarity.
I started the petition.
I'm not a student.
I am left wing and happy to say so. I'm not sure if being left wing makes me a Marxist... I suspect in some people's opinion it probably does.
I'm not a 'member' of BLM. It's news to me that you can be a member apparently.
I raised the petition as a response to the covering up / grafittying of the Hawkins sign. I acted individually without discussing it with anyone else.
It was obviously going to come down so I thought, why not use the opportunity to suggest Jack Leslie, a positive story.
At the time I set up the petition I was unaware of the statue campaign. I'd still raise the petition anyway.
I wasn't trying to make a political statement, I just saw an opportunity to promote Jack's story.
I think we should be made aware of our past, even if it contains shameful deeds like those committed by Hawkins. But I don't think a street sign really tells you an awful lot about a person? Except they were apparently worthy of a street sign (put up in the 80s and controversial ever since).
IMO Hawkins doesn't deserve a square named after him. Jack Leslie does. Pretty simple.
Hope that clears it up

I know some students who have written in to the council, they may not have declared themselves as students, but they are.
Up the line, I have read some of your comments when argyle play badly or lose, now hearing this you have sunk even lower in my estimation.
I'm open to hear any opinion and weigh it up with unbiased judgement, but I think I had you sussed out a long time ago. You've ignored the details I posted in my 1st and 2nd comments as most leftwing protagonists do, and I will say I have many leftwing friends, but even they know full well the BLM agenda and dont approve of it.
Btw BLM are now a political party, so it is political bias.
I love my black friends, but not BLM who dont care about black people. All they care about is fulfilling their leftwing marxist agenda.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ehind-attempt-to-use-name-for-political-party

 

[Keith Whitfield]

It is sad that this thread has descended into personal abuse and the peddling of "facts" that are of dubious lineage. Just to reiterate, the original idea came from me, Ian gave it strong support, Patrick organised the petition and lots of us wrote to the council leader and our local councillors to suggest the idea. The square had already been un-named and the campaign for the statue was in its infancy. Students may have been among those lobbying and also people on the left wing of politics - but why is that of any relevance?

Everyone I know to have been involved in this did so because they felt that it would be great that an Argyle legend such as Jack Leslie was commemorated in the city centre and his story thereby became known to people who never ventured anywhere near Home Park. My personal involvement reflected the views passed on to me by my grandfather (founder and long-serving official of the Argyle Supporters Club) who recounted stories of Jack's many achievements and the abuse he suffered at the time. Remember these were the days of Moseley's blackshirts, who would have been delighted had Hitler conquered our country. To my mind, that story needs to be told as widely as possible. If that makes me political, left-wing, a Marxist, a student or any other thing you want to sling my way, so be it. I'll take all of that if it means that the stories passed on to me as a kid are passed on to many others.

 

[up the line]

It is sad that this thread has descended into personal abuse and the peddling of "facts" that are of dubious lineage. Just to reiterate, the original idea came from me, Ian gave it strong support, Patrick organised the petition and lots of us wrote to the council leader and our local councillors to suggest the idea. The square had already been un-named and the campaign for the statue was in its infancy. Students may have been among those lobbying and also people on the left wing of politics - but why is that of any relevance?

Everyone I know to have been involved in this did so because they felt that it would be great that an Argyle legend such as Jack Leslie was commemorated in the city centre and his story thereby became known to people who never ventured anywhere near Home Park. My personal involvement reflected the views passed on to me by my grandfather (founder and long-serving official of the Argyle Supporters Club) who recounted stories of Jack's many achievements and the abuse he suffered at the time. Remember these were the days of Moseley's blackshirts, who would have been delighted had Hitler conquered our country. To my mind, that story needs to be told as widely as possible. If that makes me political, left-wing, a Marxist, a student or any other thing you want to sling my way, so be it. I'll take all of that if it means that the stories passed on to me as a kid are passed on to many others.

Tbh I'm not totally sure even what Marxism is. I mean I've tried to read about it but I end up losing the thread somewhat... Something to do with 'returning the means of production to the worker'?
I'm not sure how that's relevant.
Still it's a first for me, I've been accused of a few things on here in my time but never of being part of a conspiracy to eradicate white people. Only in 2020 could starting off a petition to get a square named after a footballer get you accused of attempting racial genocide. Strange times.

 

[metroace]

I'm no conspiracy theorist, but the evidence is all there.

:funny: :funny: :funny:

 

[briangreen]

I'm no conspiracy theorist, but the evidence is all there.

:funny: :funny: :funny:

I dont know what that's all about, sounds like a 12 year old, but whatever...

I fully support putting a statue up and even renaming one of the roads or pathways after Jack, but the council are using this to support the BLM agenda, which is crazy, but then again that's labour for you.
Why any argyle fan would prefer Jack Leslie to be commemorated in a backstreet square that's usually occupied by a group of alcoholics and drug abusers instead of Home park is beyond me.

 

[Bristol Rich]

Nothing to do with the club at all.

Council and Argyle fans, simple as that.

OK cheers, just curious.

 

[up the line]

I'm no conspiracy theorist, but the evidence is all there.

:funny: :funny: :funny:

I dont know what that's all about, sounds like a 12 year old, but whatever...

I fully support putting a statue up and even renaming one of the roads or pathways after Jack, but the council are using this to support the BLM agenda, which is crazy, but then again that's labour for you.
Why any argyle fan would prefer Jack Leslie to be commemorated in a backstreet square that's usually occupied by a group of alcoholics and drug abusers instead of Home park is beyond me.

Who said 'instead of?'
Now there will be a statue AND a square.
Result

 

[briangreen]

I'm no conspiracy theorist, but the evidence is all there.

:funny: :funny: :funny:

I dont know what that's all about, sounds like a 12 year old, but whatever...

I fully support putting a statue up and even renaming one of the roads or pathways after Jack, but the council are using this to support the BLM agenda, which is crazy, but then again that's labour for you.
Why any argyle fan would prefer Jack Leslie to be commemorated in a backstreet square that's usually occupied by a group of alcoholics and drug abusers instead of Home park is beyond me.

Who said 'instead of?'
Now there will be a statue AND a square.
Result

Result for your ego, yes, but not for plymouth history.

Btw this is the definition for imposing marxism:
'Marxism advocates violent overthrow initially to achieve its aims. While it claims to create a utopian society once that overthrow is over, such a sudden change cannot be sustained without fearmongering and violence.'
Sound familiar? Destruction of public property, abuse and violence against individuals and those who oppose marxism, the BLM clenched fist symbol (a sign of violence) taken from the South african communist party (now known as the ANC).

 

[up the line]

I'm no conspiracy theorist, but the evidence is all there.

:funny: :funny: :funny:

I dont know what that's all about, sounds like a 12 year old, but whatever...

I fully support putting a statue up and even renaming one of the roads or pathways after Jack, but the council are using this to support the BLM agenda, which is crazy, but then again that's labour for you.
Why any argyle fan would prefer Jack Leslie to be commemorated in a backstreet square that's usually occupied by a group of alcoholics and drug abusers instead of Home park is beyond me.

Who said 'instead of?'
Now there will be a statue AND a square.
Result

Result for your ego, yes, but not for plymouth history.

Btw this is the definition for imposing marxism:
'Marxism advocates violent overthrow initially to achieve its aims. While it claims to create a utopian society once that overthrow is over, such a sudden change cannot be sustained without fearmongering and violence.'
Sound familiar? Destruction of public property, abuse and violence against individuals and those who oppose marxism, the BLM clenched fist symbol (a sign of violence) taken from the South african communist party (now known as the ANC).

Source?
I'm interested partly because the grammar is so bad.
Well, if my setting up a petition counts as violently overthrowing the system then call me Che and buy me a beret. See you all in Havana.