JB/PCC

[Ade the green]

Who says it's 'irretrievable' Ade?

It suits no one for this to be the case.

There's been a falling it, I don't think anyone would deny that but businessmen in particular have to be pragmatic.

Also, think about it, what good would it do the PCC to have no tenant at Home Park.

Just like when we lose two games, there are knee jerkers, sensible people take a longer and more sensible approach.

As a JB supporter I don't like having these negative thoughts but as time goes on and nothing concrete seems to happen I hope you understand how the most optimistic fans can think the worst.
I'm also aware that posters who drop bombs then fly off radar shouldn't be considered a reliable source.

 

[RWW]

The people who have really put subatantial investment into argyle are the council, by buying the ground back and supplying loans. The current board has supplied minimal investment and thier continued presence holds the club back.

Still, his supporters on here will do thier best to stifle any dissent ob his reign so far.

JB has loaned way more than PCC, so how do you answer that one?

JB is the owner of PAFC and has a responsibility to run the club - not make himself a tidy profit and leave us boxed for no future development...ever. There are many people who could loan the club £2million at 6% interest. That is just kicking the problem down the road don't you think?

PCC have no such responsibility toward Argyle (anymore than they would to any business in the city that hires below 100 people) yet have been incredible helpful until Mr Webb starting shouting his mouth off about Bretonside.

Just try to see it from the other side Ian.

You have raised thousands of pounds and given hundreds of hours (along with many other unpaid volunteers) for this club.

The owner hasn't put in a penny - he just loans the club money at interest rates he wouldn't get elsewhere so that he can make a tidy profit on it all.

Just think about that for a while....

Who is taking advantage of who here?

 

[The Grumpy Loyal]

We're simply getting to the crux of this whole saga and sadly for those who claimed James Brent "bleeds green", and "gets it" and has "bought in to everything PAFC" (paraphrase perhaps), they are being shown to have been completely wrong - as some of us shouted from the rooftops from the very start.

The fella is quite simply as ruthless and hardnosed a businessman as you will ever come across. He will not entertain any sort of shortfall in his outlay (i.e. loans to the club). He has no love for PAFC, as some would have us believe. His sole intention now is to get out having not incurred any personal losses.

Nikkks defence of JB is admirable, but there is no comparison between someone who is quite obviously a mad keen fan (nikkk) and is looking to throw money, however relatively small, into the club for relatively little in return by way of sponsorship, and Brent who has brokered loans to the club whilst desperately trying to get HHP off the ground to enable the money-making part of the whole scheme (millbay) to begin.

From a business point of view I can totally understand that actually. I just wish it hadn't been dressed up as anything other than a (hopelessly failed) business opportunity from the start.

For Brent, PAFC is/was an unwelcome but neccesary distraction that has/had to be kept alive if the real profit making elsewhere in the city was to be realised.

That has all now come to a grinding halt, and I'll bare my arse on the top of Smeatons Tower if JB is travelling to fourth/third division shitholes every other week as a 'fan' in two or three years time.

 

[IJN]

Just think about that for a while....

Who is taking advantage of who here?

It's very sad when you have to look at things in such a way.

It really is.

I haven't one moments regret about the hours I have put in, not one.

I also haven't a moments regret at knowing JB, he's a decent man and anyone who has done 84 games out of 88 in two seasons is ok in my book.

I'm as peed as everyone else about the GS not happening, and I only hope that PAFC and PCC can come to the table and we get the ground PAFC deserve.

 

[RWW]

No Ian it is not sad. I can only applaud the efforts that you and others put into our club in its darkest hours and know that you and your fellow volunteers won't regret a minute of what you did.

I don't regret a penny of the money I gave to help either.

You are clearly a passionate Argyle fan and we need more of these!

It is nice that this thread has been a decent debate that hasn't been side-lined by abusive comments or rudeness - like the pasoti of old! Long may it continue.

However, simply attending games does not make you a good chairman. The standards should be set higher than this.

He does not get challenged enough on what he is doing with his time as owner of our football club.

1. He has loaned the club around about £2.5 million pounds at an interest rate he would not find elsewhere on the market. This is a good deal for him.

2. He has acquired some land of a decent value.

3. He has not delivered any type of stand (be it "grand" or otherwise).

4. Many volunteers got this club out of the mess the money men got it in to with their willingness to donate money and work for free. Mr Brent has done neither. He admits he only spends a day or two working for our club. Maybe if he spent a bit more time at the helm things would get done?????

4. We are likely to finish in the top third of division 4. Is this acceptable after 3 years of his ownership?

When do you set the standards of what a chairman should achieve a bit higher than simply being "a good bloke".????

 

[IJN]

Being a decent bloke is a very good start though.

As for '£2.5 million pounds at an interest rate he would not find elsewhere on the market' you are right, according go publicly available accounts, he hasn't charged a penny interest. Nor has he charged anything to PAFC, nor has he claimed any expenses either.

So, the volunteers like Sue Pollard, Rob Bullen, Gary McGuire to name just three, are in good company I would say.

Again, facts ARE facts they can't be bent to suit an argument.

 

[PL2 3DQ]

The people who have really put subatantial investment into argyle are the council, by buying the ground back and supplying loans. The current board has supplied minimal investment and thier continued presence holds the club back.

Still, his supporters on here will do thier best to stifle any dissent ob his reign so far.

Some of the board are shareholders in the HHP land and have put this up as collateral should the club default on the recent £800,000 loan from PCC, meaning the land for the ice rink, cinema and hotel etc would pass into public hands.

When James Brent took over he said he is not a sugar daddy and the club would eventually have to sustain itself, except now that the club is no longer in danger some fans are not happy with the prospect of sustainability and living within our means.

As it is, JB is propping up the club with loans, this allows Sheridan to sign a good pedigree of player, some like Hartley, Cox, Reid, Mellor and McHugh have been signed from teams in a higher league, plus the fees involved for the loan signings. Seven of the squad have already won promotion from L2, they don't come cheap.

It's far better for the club to take a loan from a fan or PCC rather than from some financial institution.

Off the pitch the financial situation is getting better, the losses been reduced from £2.24m to £1.46m in a little over a year with a breakeven figure expected soon.

If fans are going to beat up JB on the lack of a new grandstand and HHP development at least acknowledge the progress in other areas such as off the pitch with the improved financial situation and on the pitch the signing of good players and an improvement in the league position.

 

[RWW]

Being a decent bloke is a very good start though.

As for '£2.5 million pounds at an interest rate he would not find elsewhere on the market' you are right, according go publicly available accounts, he hasn't charged a penny interest. Nor has he charged anything to PAFC, nor has he claimed any expenses either.

So, the volunteers like Sue Pollard, Rob Bullen, Gary McGuire to name just three, are in good company I would say.

Again, facts ARE facts they can't be bent to suit an argument.

Don't be so naïve Ian. Just because something isn't put in the publicly available accounts it doesn't mean interest isn't being charged. Tesco massaged figures for about 20 years before someone came clean and lots of people made lots and lots of money from them.

And I think you make my point - this great club of ours only has its head above water because of volunteers!

I have no doubt that Mr Brent wants Argyle to succeed. However, I also have no doubt that he will do very well out of this - irrespective of the outcome for Argyle.

Losses were always going to come down as we weren't stuck paying anyone Championship wages as we had been into admin! You can't give him credit for reducing losses when admin took away the outgoings that were causing the losses!

There are too many people who believe everything they hear from Mr Brent. Our club will forever become a League 1 / League 2 yo-yo team unless he starts giving some straight answers to us.

2 questions to start with.

1. Why have relationships with PCC broken down so seriously?

2. If you spent more than a couple of days a month working on PAFC matters do you think it would help?

 

[IJN]

Being a decent bloke is a very good start though.

As for '£2.5 million pounds at an interest rate he would not find elsewhere on the market' you are right, according go publicly available accounts, he hasn't charged a penny interest. Nor has he charged anything to PAFC, nor has he claimed any expenses either.

So, the volunteers like Sue Pollard, Rob Bullen, Gary McGuire to name just three, are in good company I would say.

Again, facts ARE facts they can't be bent to suit an argument.

Don't be so naïve Ian. Just because something isn't put in the publicly available accounts it doesn't mean interest isn't being charged. Tesco massaged figures for about 20 years before someone came clean and lots of people made lots and lots of money from them.

And I think you make my point - this great club of ours only has its head above water because of volunteers!

I have no doubt that Mr Brent wants Argyle to succeed. However, I also have no doubt that he will do very well out of this - irrespective of the outcome for Argyle.

Losses were always going to come down as we weren't stuck paying anyone Championship wages as we had been into admin! You can't give him credit for reducing losses when admin took away the outgoings that were causing the losses!

There are too many people who believe everything they hear from Mr Brent. Our club will forever become a League 1 / League 2 yo-yo team unless he starts giving some straight answers to us.

2 questions to start with.

1. Why have relationships with PCC broken down so seriously?

2. If you spent more than a couple of days a month working on PAFC matters do you think it would help?

1) I have no idea.

2) If you mean me, without a doubt, but I have a proper job thank you, that pays rather well. :greensmile:

As for comparing JB with Tesco's, come on be fair, that's a daft link.

JB has lent a couple of million and zero rate of interest, he also charges nothing for his time as the Chair of RD&E and I would imagine the same for the Uni. Why compare JB to the avaricious supermarket chain who will shaft anyone at the drop of a hat.

 

[RWW]

I almost just fell off my chair Ian....

Mr Brent does not charge Argyle for the day or two a week he spends working on the club he owns.

Blimey...that says it all.

I am so lucky to have an owner that is so gracious. I will doff my hat the next time I see him in the Director's Box and thank him that we now have a team that plays in stripes....

Does he need me to clean his shoes after he has next walked through the car park.


P.S. And please don't respond that Risdale charged Argyle for his time as you will simply make my point even clearer to the few people left who agree with you.

 

[PL2 3DQ]

Being a decent bloke is a very good start though.

As for '£2.5 million pounds at an interest rate he would not find elsewhere on the market' you are right, according go publicly available accounts, he hasn't charged a penny interest. Nor has he charged anything to PAFC, nor has he claimed any expenses either.

So, the volunteers like Sue Pollard, Rob Bullen, Gary McGuire to name just three, are in good company I would say.

Again, facts ARE facts they can't be bent to suit an argument.

Don't be so naïve Ian. Just because something isn't put in the publicly available accounts it doesn't mean interest isn't being charged. Tesco massaged figures for about 20 years before someone came clean and lots of people made lots and lots of money from them.

And I think you make my point - this great club of ours only has its head above water because of volunteers!

I have no doubt that Mr Brent wants Argyle to succeed. However, I also have no doubt that he will do very well out of this - irrespective of the outcome for Argyle.

Losses were always going to come down as we weren't stuck paying anyone Championship wages as we had been into admin! You can't give him credit for reducing losses when admin took away the outgoings that were causing the losses!

There are too many people who believe everything they hear from Mr Brent. Our club will forever become a League 1 / League 2 yo-yo team unless he starts giving some straight answers to us.

2 questions to start with.

1. Why have relationships with PCC broken down so seriously?

2. If you spent more than a couple of days a month working on PAFC matters do you think it would help?

JB appointed a CEO from a Championship club to run PAFC, there are also other heads of departments plus the directors, I don't think more day to day involvement from JB would help. Besides, I would imagine he is in regular contact by phone etc with those running the club.

 

[RWW]

Being a decent bloke is a very good start though. (IJN wrote)

That's our fundamental difference Ian - my expectations are so much higher.

I would expect the owner of my club to be a decent person - this is a non negotiable not a "very good start".

Anyway, I have wasted too much of my time here so must leave for a while and get some real work done!

Thanks for the decent conversation and I hope we both have things to go away and think about.

Hopefully, we will win the next 40 matches in a row and have 40 000 wanting to attend each game so that the fans of Argyle can self finance a proper stand.

 

[IJN]

And please don't respond that Ridsdale charged Argyle for his time as you will simply make my point even clearer to the few people left who agree with you.

You think you speak for the majority?

MMM, interesting.

We obviously walk in completely different circles mate, have you a first name or do I simply call you 'R'?

 

[Adam]

I feel I should just pitch in here with regards with what has been said about us being in the top half of the 4th division after three years of James at the helm.

James Brent said his main focus for the club was 'Stability' off and on the field.

Off the field things seemed to have improved. If you ignore the Grandstand issue at the moment, the Club seem to be quite healthy.

On the field, James appointed Sheridan as Manager who has improved our League positions since he started.

Over the three years that JB has been here I would say he's done a good job so far, and who knows - if we do gain Promotion this season perhaps some the potential investors for HHP may be more interested with the extra crowds the Promotion would bring.

 

[IJN]

Point of order Mr Clark.

You've two finallys.