Kevin Hodges Leaves Argyle Academy

[ming the merciless]

One of Argyles problems is selling the dream to potential recruits and their parents. What recent success can they point to that will help parents choose us over Exeter who have done very well.
Another thing that has put youngsters off is our reputation in the city for treating the kids badly. My son was at the academy and left because he hated the way the coaches talked to him. It seemed that they didn't want the boys enjoying their football. Why?
Some of these old meat head pros will tell you that the harsh treatment they received when they emerged didn't do them any harm. I say that they made it despite being treated that way, not because of it. How many truly gifted players had to go on the scrap heap for them to get their chances in football. I Kevin Hodges case, he was such a gifted player he was always going to make it. But he may think enduring harsh treatment as a lad helped him on his way. I think they do it to try and instill resilience. But the truth is that people vote with their feet. When they can be at marine academy or Exeter City or even at home on the x box and the lads doing those things are loving it, why would you do something that isn't enjoyable. As a kid you wouldn't unless you pushed into it by someone who knows best.
Watching talented players fall by the wayside and seeing a tough as nails, resilient players that have very little talent staying on is utterly heartbreaking, and not what I want for my club. But it's pretty well where we are. I met a steady stream of parents who's sons had been invited but the parents said no way because of Plymouth had a bad name in the area. I remember chatting with one parent of a lad on a six week trial. The lad looked the business on the pitch but the parent said as far as he was concerned it wasn't his son on trial it was the club. Again this was because he'd heard so much bad stuff. He took his lad out after about two weeks in. That was our loss. So few make from any academy. Why not let them enjoy the journey. We have never nurtured talent. We take gifted players and try to break them then say they weren't up to it. I doubt my lad was ever going to make it. He had some serious talent but the bar is so high its very hard to make it.

 

[Guiri Green]

I have a Relative that plays for the Youth and was recently out in the Northen Ireland Cup Competition and is seemingly enjoying his time with Argyle. However, one thing maybe not appreciated by all is the commitment and costs involved by the Families. I know how much his Dad puts into supporting him.

I'd imagine it must be hard to accept the release / rejection after spending so much time and money supporting a youngsters dream especially if the Lad is subjected to the 'Old School' way of being trained and let go.

Conversely, I also have another closer relative that, spent time attending the LTPD Sessions and was invited to trial for the Academy . He didn't enjoy the trial and was released from that with some constructive criticism, despite the disappointment, he accepted that he wasn't at the required standard to continue at that time. He also plays in the DJM System and after deciding the conflict of training and attending both Argyle and DJM Sessions was too much, decided to drop away from Argyle and play for 'fun' in the DJM. The result of that is (after a good grounding from Argyle) the pressure is off and he now enjoys his Football, is more relaxed and has hopefully made new Friends and contacts that will stay with him for Years to come.

Two different outcomes of the experience but the bottom line must be the welfare and happiness of the youngsters.

 

[Pogleswoody]

Forcing Argyle to pick players from a 20-mile radius would put us at a major disadvantage, seeing as half of our radius is in the English channel and much of the other half is moorland.

To be fair, we’ve had some decent players from Dartmoor:

Pony James
Marcel Sheep
Jose Baxtor

Ian Stonebridge? and his cousin: Ina Stonecircle.

 

[Mike E]

One of Argyles problems is selling the dream to potential recruits and their parents. What recent success can they point to that will help parents choose us over Exeter who have done very well.
Another thing that has put youngsters off is our reputation in the city for treating the kids badly. My son was at the academy and left because he hated the way the coaches talked to him. It seemed that they didn't want the boys enjoying their football. Why?
Some of these old meat head pros will tell you that the harsh treatment they received when they emerged didn't do them any harm. I say that they made it despite being treated that way, not because of it. How many truly gifted players had to go on the scrap heap for them to get their chances in football. I Kevin Hodges case, he was such a gifted player he was always going to make it. But he may think enduring harsh treatment as a lad helped him on his way. I think they do it to try and instill resilience. But the truth is that people vote with their feet. When they can be at marine academy or Exeter City or even at home on the x box and the lads doing those things are loving it, why would you do something that isn't enjoyable. As a kid you wouldn't unless you pushed into it by someone who knows best.
Watching talented players fall by the wayside and seeing a tough as nails, resilient players that have very little talent staying on is utterly heartbreaking, and not what I want for my club. But it's pretty well where we are. I met a steady stream of parents who's sons had been invited but the parents said no way because of Plymouth had a bad name in the area. I remember chatting with one parent of a lad on a six week trial. The lad looked the business on the pitch but the parent said as far as he was concerned it wasn't his son on trial it was the club. Again this was because he'd heard so much bad stuff. He took his lad out after about two weeks in. That was our loss. So few make from any academy. Why not let them enjoy the journey. We have never nurtured talent. We take gifted players and try to break them then say they weren't up to it. I doubt my lad was ever going to make it. He had some serious talent but the bar is so high its very hard to make it.

Totally with you Ming and this is the experience that so many youngsters have gone through, not just at Argyle, but for years throughout the football industry, which is brutal and exploitative of kids pursueing their dream.

To be fair that is partly why the EPPP and Category system exists. To qualify for Category 1 status clubs have to provide not just top quality football coaches, but full time psychologists, quality education and teachers. Argyle can't hope to compete with these stringent regulations and standards when our very survival as a football club has been paramount in the last few years.

I can only speak from our experinence at Brighton, but the kids are made aware regularly, as they move on up through the years, that only one in twenty of them is ever likely to play professional or even semi professional football.

The academy employ two full time female pschologists just to cover the different age groups up to the u18s. The coaches aren't just from fooball backgrounds but they alao employ fully trained sports scientists. The emphasis is not just what the kids can do with their feet but focusing their minds on and off the pitch and do as much as they possibly can to prepare for a life in or outside of the football industry.

This is why I think Argyle have to think through a radical youth policy and as to how they can survive in a fast changing industry with limited resources.

 

[Kentishgreen]

I think there are two problems these days. Everyone wants to be famous and lots and lots of people have unrealistic expectations. Why play under 11 football for a L2 team when you can play for a pretend Premiership team.
I met George Taft’s grandparents on holiday a couple of years ago. They were as pleased as punch to think he’d made a breakthrough at the mighty Burton Albion. I wonder how many would be so realistic these days

 

[nick623]

It is clear from the messages I have received and the number of posts deleted on here by site admin that quite a few people know the reason why KevinHodges has left, although no doubt subject to the usual issues with Chinese whispers. Is is almost certain the club have signed a non disclosure contract if KH stood down, probably partly to protect the reputation of a former player and this site is adopting the same policy, which on reflection I think is the best approach.

KH's approach, methods and at times the way he sometimes spoke and dealt with the boys in the academy was from a bygone era. Although parents who have had lads in he academy can be accused of sour grapes because their boys have been released, there was a common theme in posts on here and my conversations with parents, who believe KH could have dealt with their lads better. At whatever age the lads are released, 8,9 10 or 18 or older, they are having their dreams and hopes dashed and the academy managers need to be more aware of this. The whole academy system is sometimes brutal and very few make it, but the old school approach is long gone at other successful academies, and now is the time to change and adapt or close the academy.

If the reasons are true, and I have been left in no doubt they are, the chances of Hodges being given a seat on the Board or made an ambassador for the club are nill.

Kevins association with the club post his playing career is easily forgettable.

However, I will remember Kevin as a pivotal member of the mid to late eighties, especially Dave Smih's promotion winning side I followed all over the country when, as a teenager football to me was a religion and the most important thing in my life, and some of my best memories are from away games supporting this side with the green army. As a player he is easily in the top three we have ever had and on reflection, he needs to be given the respect to be remembered as such, a playing legend.

This is a sad end to his association with the club and on reflection I am sure he would have done things differently, but the old school approach has ultimately cost him.

Old School Approach = Honesty, Truth-fullness, Realism
New School Approach = Concealment, Dishonesty, Misselling

I know what I prefer and the best way to help a young person

 

[TynanWozGr8]

Old School Approach = Honesty, Truth-fullness, Realism
New School Approach = Concealment, Dishonesty, Misselling

I know what I prefer and the best way to help a young person

Old school approach = players spending 1.5hrs a day on chores such as painting and cleaning jobs around home park - approx 300 hrs per season,

New school Approach = spending these 300 hrs on video analysis, strength & conditioning, classroom sessions analysing data from GPS vests etc etc

Don't know where you are getting your interpretation of new school from, seems more of an opinion on society today, but not what I was meaning

I have no objections to the lads getting an old school rollicking when justified - its football its a mans game. But coaching methods and practices have moved on

 

[TynanWozGr8]

I keep hearing on this message board that times have moved on and things need to be done differently these days. KH is accused of being 'old fashioned' in his methods and it is that which has brought about his demise. It was not long ago he was in charge of an Argyle academy team which beat if not the best, then one of the best academy sides in this world, namely Manchester City in the FA Youth Cup. Followed by going away to Burnley, winning and missing out on penalties to another top academy team Fulham.

Man City was a fantastic result and effort by the players, but it was he most negative performance I have ever seen from any team at any level, it was necessary to get the win but what did that style of football do to develop our players, and it is definitely not the reason to say everything was obviously great - how many of that squad have had a run of proper first team games or have been released???. What it did show is that Rhys Wilmot has developed a very fine keeper.

KH was not prepared to compromise as he is a man of principle.

Says it all - not compromise as in not change his techniques, training methods or approaches and move with the times

Lets see who takes over and the job they do. I can tell you they will not do a better job than KH. It would not surprise me if they had a passport with Bury on the front of it.

I first watched Etahn Ampadu, who was exceptional at U8, and obviously all of their other lads from this age group four times a year over 8 years. It is only my experience of this age group but the development and improvement in their players over this time was noticeably better than ours, as it was with players at other academy sides. Either they coached better and had a system which developed players to maximise their ability and was better than ours, or all of our lads were not good learners. I strongly believe some of our academy products who nearly made it, such as Tyler Rooney, Calver would have been developed better and would currently be playing at a higher level had they gone through Exeters academy system. I am not surprised Exter have developed players and sold on for millions and we have not. With the right appointment things will change for the better, significantly better

I do agree that players need to be told straight and accept a rollicking when required - its a mans game and they need to be mentally tough enough. I do not agree with the way/why KH has left

 

[gaspargomez]

I think Kevin Hodges was here for the long term and offered consistency.

Lowe and his entourage will probably not be here very long. Like all Argyle managers before, Lowe will either get sacked for poor results or will be poached by another club if he does well.

Whats the average time in charge for an Argyle manager ? Little more than 2 seasons I'd guess. I think we've had 5 permanent managers in the last 8 years, while Hodges has been here throughout.

 

[nick623]

I keep hearing on this message board that times have moved on and things need to be done differently these days. KH is accused of being 'old fashioned' in his methods and it is that which has brought about his demise. It was not long ago he was in charge of an Argyle academy team which beat if not the best, then one of the best academy sides in this world, namely Manchester City in the FA Youth Cup. Followed by going away to Burnley, winning and missing out on penalties to another top academy team Fulham.

Man City was a fantastic result and effort by the players, but it was he most negative performance I have ever seen from any team at any level, it was necessary to get the win but what did that style of football do to develop our players, and it is definitely not the reason to say everything was obviously great - how many of that squad have had a run of proper first team games or have been released???. What it did show is that Rhys Wilmot has developed a very fine keeper.

KH was not prepared to compromise as he is a man of principle.

Says it all - not compromise as in not change his techniques, training methods or approaches and move with the times

Lets see who takes over and the job they do. I can tell you they will not do a better job than KH. It would not surprise me if they had a passport with Bury on the front of it.

I first watched Etahn Ampadu, who was exceptional at U8, and obviously all of their other lads from this age group four times a year over 8 years. It is only my experience of this age group but the development and improvement in their players over this time was noticeably better than ours, as it was with players at other academy sides. Either they coached better and had a system which developed players to maximise their ability and was better than ours, or all of our lads were not good learners. I strongly believe some of our academy products who nearly made it, such as Tyler Rooney, Calver would have been developed better and would currently be playing at a higher level had they gone through Exeters academy system. I am not surprised Exter have developed players and sold on for millions and we have not. With the right appointment things will change for the better, significantly better

I do agree that players need to be told straight and accept a rollicking when required - its a mans game and they need to be mentally tough enough. I do not agree with the way/why KH has left

I think you need to get down to Specsavers mate if you think the Man City game "was he most negative performance I have ever seen from any team at any level". Do you really believe this total and absolute rubbish? If you really think things now "will change for the better, significantly better" you are totally deluded. KH had to operate on a shoe string budget with insufficient resources - that is why we are a Cat 3 Academy. KH was and is a fine coach who was always up to date in his techniques and approaches. He is also a fine teacher who gained respect from those who he worked with. He will be missed and his contributions and achievements whilst at Argyle will be remembered and in the future more fully recognised. Putting the boot into someone who has given his working life to Argyle is a total insult to Kevin - you must be very pleased with yourself.

 

[TynanWozGr8]

I think you are the one who needs to get to supersavers - Lolas spent virtually the whole game 15 - 20 yds inside our half and once when Adam Randell ventured forward to try and make an interception on the half way line in the second half was immediately called back.

I am pleased he has left the academy because now we may start producing players who will have a chance of making it in the first team.

As for kicking him when he was down - it was a result of his own actions why he had to leave

 

[IJN]

Not a very classy last comment is it?

You disagree with a poster so you slag off a legend?

Don't get that.

:sigh:

 

[HC Green]

I think you are the one who needs to get to supersavers - Lolas spent virtually the whole game 15 - 20 yds inside our half and once when Adam Randell ventured forward to try and make an interception on the half way line in the second half was immediately called back.

I am pleased he has left the academy because now we may start producing players who will have a chance of making it in the first team.

As for kicking him when he was down - it was a result of his own actions why he had to leave

So you don’t think Mike Cooper or Adam Randell will make the first team?

 

[Mike E]

I think you are the one who needs to get to supersavers - Lolas spent virtually the whole game 15 - 20 yds inside our half and once when Adam Randell ventured forward to try and make an interception on the half way line in the second half was immediately called back.

I am pleased he has left the academy because now we may start producing players who will have a chance of making it in the first team.

As for kicking him when he was down - it was a result of his own actions why he had to leave

Totally out of order. KH was Argyle from top to toe and every breath, just working with his hands tied behind his back and no money or facilities in a ever competetive workplace.

As Gas and Nick have pointed out he will be hard to replace.

 

[transparent]

My experience with my son suggested poor management and a bad system.
At my son's final review it was suggested there was a lack of consistency in his play from the 5th coach he'd had that season. So, no real consistency in coaches, in reality the most recent coach making a decision based on a few games rather than the whole season.
Probably the biggest problem is who makes the decision on whether to sign a player on. This decision is made by coaches, who admittedly are trained in coaching but does that mean they can spot a good player? I don't believe so. I like the German system much more, where a consensus is built up by referring to other managers, scouts etc.
Maybe PASOTI could be proactive in this area by providing a group of say 20 interested but independent appraisers that watch youth matches and make recommendations. Potentially this could include peninsula league scouts who would have an interest as well.
I agree with other comments on here where the feeling is that there are a lot of very good players slipping through the net because the system is poor.