Lowe and Mayor

[gaspargomez]

Mayor has played the majority of his football in the bottom divisions. He didn't thrive in the Championship.
Anyhow, some Championship appearances years ago doesn't automatically make him better than Carey does it ?

 

[Pogleswoody]

We could easily have missed out on promotion because we were far from convincing and it was just as well the season finished when it did. Mayor has done little to date to suggest he is better than Carey or Lameiras. He has only played 11 times in league one and who knows he could still be part of a relegation team .Nobody has yet answered a question I have raised before ,if Mayor is so good why aren't other clubs queuing up to sign him? He is a good player and RL has the potential to be a great manager but it is far too early to go overboard on their achievements to date.

I'd agree with that.

Mayor is a good player but there is a reason has spent most of his career in Leagues One and Two. Argyle have previously had better players in that position and not just Graham Carey.

As for Lowe, I like him but he is still relatively unproven. He has managed two well funded teams out of the basement division.

So whilst both are good, I wouldn't get too caried away.

Hang on. Mayor can't be all that good because he's played most of his career in lg 1 & 2 but Carey was better having only played in leagues 1 & 2?
Out of the two only one has been signed by a championship club. Danny Mayor played over 30 games for Preston in the championship and a smattering for Sheffield Wednesday. I'll wait for the stat of how many championship games Carey has played.

Caried away, I see what you did there.

 

[rsp4]

Tin hat on.

For me Danny Mayor is every bit as good as Carey and Lameiras were. But those two delivered some amazing (and important) individual goals which Danny's lacked so far. Therein lies the rub - plenty of Argyle fans only look at goals scored to see a player's value. However his input to the whole game and the system we play is seriously impressive. He draws defenders away for others to make runs and whilst he's not always the immediate assist, a lot of what he does ends up creating a chance somewhere down the line. And it's so exciting seeing players play for your team who can take on and beat men with a bit of trickery. But if he had 15 goals a season to go with that, he most definitely would not be playing for us in League 1.

As for Lowe, in 35 of years of being a fan, he's probably my favourite manager. Sturrock got the results first time round but we were largely ugly to watch and his off field demeanour wasn't as captivating. Lovely guy but the way Lowe interacts with our fans and media together with the football he gets us to play is what sets him apart for me. Not to mention his network of contacts is impressive for a young manager. He's destined for bigger and better - whether the club can move forward at the same pace remains to be seen but I hope we all succed in his vision together.

Wow nail and head. I don't need to say much more :clap:

The only thing I disagree with and I will get pelted with rocks is that Olly was my favourite period since I started watching 40 odd years ago. At one point we were pushing the play offs in the championship with some brilliant football.

Over the moon with RL, DM and Byron Moore :scarf:

As an aside I really hope Bury FC comes out of this in some guise. Look at Wimbledon or even Stanley

 

[HC Green]

Tin hat on.

For me Danny Mayor is every bit as good as Carey and Lameiras were. But those two delivered some amazing (and important) individual goals which Danny's lacked so far. Therein lies the rub - plenty of Argyle fans only look at goals scored to see a player's value. However his input to the whole game and the system we play is seriously impressive. He draws defenders away for others to make runs and whilst he's not always the immediate assist, a lot of what he does ends up creating a chance somewhere down the line. And it's so exciting seeing players play for your team who can take on and beat men with a bit of trickery. But if he had 15 goals a season to go with that, he most definitely would not be playing for us in League 1.

As for Lowe, in 35 of years of being a fan, he's probably my favourite manager. Sturrock got the results first time round but we were largely ugly to watch and his off field demeanour wasn't as captivating. Lovely guy but the way Lowe interacts with our fans and media together with the football he gets us to play is what sets him apart for me. Not to mention his network of contacts is impressive for a young manager. He's destined for bigger and better - whether the club can move forward at the same pace remains to be seen but I hope we all succed in his vision together.

Surely all managers have a network of contacts, most have been in football for most of their working lives and all managers pre covid would go on courses and events organised by the LMA and network with other managers and coaches etc. at them.

 

[Shoenice]

I always find it strange when people say Mayor is the man linking up the play before providing the ball to the actual assister of the goal etc.

They choose to completely ignore the fact that since Mayor has been at Argyle he has been in countless advanced positions inside the box approaching from wide - but consistently fails to deliver. You would think that Mayor doesn't cross the halfway line the way some folk on here try to go on about his style. Since he's been at Argyle, he is always in and around the box, doing his trademark weaving in from the wide position into the box and often onto the edge of the 6 yard box (in addition to driving from deep), but he just fails to produce anything from it all. I get bored watching him do the same thing over and over again. He doesn't appear good enough to actually beat a defender and then score a goal or do anything of note. The better the defender he comes up against, he struggles to even beat them.

Mayor is wonderful to watch but so is Hatem Ben Arfa, and he's at Bordeaux when he should really have been at Barcelona. Granted he should be playing in the team, but the hype from some is ridiculous and I do think for a number of reasons it would be beneficial to occasionally drop him.

Another thing I've noticed are fans on here saying that people are suggesting that because he doesn't deliver goals/assists, it makes him a poor player. I don't think anyone has directly said that :eh:. However, you expect an attacking midfielder who has been billed as the main man to produce the goods - and he doesn't. I don't think there are many attacking midfield players out there who arrive with his kind of profile to a club, and deliver next to nothing in terms of numbers. That's what attacking midfield players are judged on.

Noone is saying he is a poor player because of his lack of end product, just that he's not anywhere near as good as made out to be, and quite honestly for what he produces, he's very lucky to be in the undroppable situation he finds himself in with Lowe. I can't help but think that fans cut him extra slack because what he does is a bit more exciting than a midfielder passing sideways for 90 minutes, or a defender passing square and back for 90 minutes. What I mean by that is he spends so much time in the game, twisting in and out with the ball but achieving nothing, dribbling around and actually often getting nowhere, or trying to beat a man but finding himself cornered with 2 defenders now cornering him etc etc

If he was at a club with better resources in this league, think the likes of Peterborough, Sunderland, Charlton etc I think he would struggle to be a regular week in week out. Don't underestimate the quality of players they have in their ranks. Think players like Toney, Maddison, Jonny Williams, Will Grigg, Aiden McGeady etc etc Heck, I don't think MacFadzean has even had a sniff at Sunderland yet (granted he had little pre-season of course). But still, I think people are hugely overestimating Mayor on the whole. He has a lovely touch and wonderful skill, but that's really about it. There's lots of players out there with that and more.

 

[oldage]

Good to see there are like minded fans out there.

 

[Green since 89]

Carey came to Argyle at a time when the fans had had to endure a lot of difficult seasons in the lowest division in the football league. He provided inspiration and skill to a team that was otherwise lacking in these qualities at times. He scored goals and would move around the pitch energetically trying to make a difference even when he wasn't having his best game. I can therefore see why his time at the club is so fondly remembered.

I would say that Mayor and Carey offer different skill-sets to their respective teams so it isn't necessarily easy to make a straight comparison of the two. What I can say is that I have seen both play key roles in winning tough games alongside their team-mates and have enjoyed watching both of them. I suspect that if both were at the club at the same time they would both be playing.

 

[Guiri Green]

Custard v Crème anglaise.

One's pretty average fare the other is basically the same but just sounds more exotic.

 

[Manchesterlala]

Wow nail and head. I don't need to say much more :clap:

The only thing I disagree with and I will get pelted with rocks is that Olly was my favourite period since I started watching 40 odd years ago. At one point we were pushing the play offs in the championship with some brilliant football.

I liked Ollie, still do. Always thought him leaving had more sinister undertones than him just being snide and ditching us for more money, which proved correct. But whilst we played some decent football at times and did alright, there were some absolutely spineless capitulations which I can't forget. 3-0 away to Preston, Birmingham and Ipswich, 4-2 at home to Barnsley, 4-0 away to Burnley. The latter being the first time I ever left a match early. On 61 minutes. I think we even missed a penalty late on.

 

[up the line]

Wow nail and head. I don't need to say much more :clap:

The only thing I disagree with and I will get pelted with rocks is that Olly was my favourite period since I started watching 40 odd years ago. At one point we were pushing the play offs in the championship with some brilliant football.

I liked Ollie, still do. Always thought him leaving had more sinister undertones than him just being snide and ditching us for more money, which proved correct. But whilst we played some decent football at times and did alright, there were some absolutely spineless capitulations which I can't forget. 3-0 away to Preston, Birmingham and Ipswich, 4-2 at home to Barnsley, 4-0 away to Burnley. The latter being the first time I ever left a match early. On 61 minutes. I think we even missed a penalty late on.

We certainly did. I was at that one too and left early. That was a classic. We even had the ignomy of Peter Swan making obscene gestures at us at half time. Djordic dived for the penalty so it was kind of justice it was missed. All in all a truly dire experience

 

[philevs]

I always find it strange when people say Mayor is the man linking up the play before providing the ball to the actual assister of the goal etc.

They choose to completely ignore the fact that since Mayor has been at Argyle he has been in countless advanced positions inside the box approaching from wide - but consistently fails to deliver. You would think that Mayor doesn't cross the halfway line the way some folk on here try to go on about his style. Since he's been at Argyle, he is always in and around the box, doing his trademark weaving in from the wide position into the box and often onto the edge of the 6 yard box (in addition to driving from deep), but he just fails to produce anything from it all. I get bored watching him do the same thing over and over again. He doesn't appear good enough to actually beat a defender and then score a goal or do anything of note. The better the defender he comes up against, he struggles to even beat them.

Mayor is wonderful to watch but so is Hatem Ben Arfa, and he's at Bordeaux when he should really have been at Barcelona. Granted he should be playing in the team, but the hype from some is ridiculous and I do think for a number of reasons it would be beneficial to occasionally drop him.

Another thing I've noticed are fans on here saying that people are suggesting that because he doesn't deliver goals/assists, it makes him a poor player. I don't think anyone has directly said that :eh:. However, you expect an attacking midfielder who has been billed as the main man to produce the goods - and he doesn't. I don't think there are many attacking midfield players out there who arrive with his kind of profile to a club, and deliver next to nothing in terms of numbers. That's what attacking midfield players are judged on.

Noone is saying he is a poor player because of his lack of end product, just that he's not anywhere near as good as made out to be, and quite honestly for what he produces, he's very lucky to be in the undroppable situation he finds himself in with Lowe. I can't help but think that fans cut him extra slack because what he does is a bit more exciting than a midfielder passing sideways for 90 minutes, or a defender passing square and back for 90 minutes. What I mean by that is he spends so much time in the game, twisting in and out with the ball but achieving nothing, dribbling around and actually often getting nowhere, or trying to beat a man but finding himself cornered with 2 defenders now cornering him etc etc

If he was at a club with better resources in this league, think the likes of Peterborough, Sunderland, Charlton etc I think he would struggle to be a regular week in week out. Don't underestimate the quality of players they have in their ranks. Think players like Toney, Maddison, Jonny Williams, Will Grigg, Aiden McGeady etc etc Heck, I don't think MacFadzean has even had a sniff at Sunderland yet (granted he had little pre-season of course). But still, I think people are hugely overestimating Mayor on the whole. He has a lovely touch and wonderful skill, but that's really about it. There's lots of players out there with that and more.

Very interesting view, with a superb explanation of why you see it this way.

The point I would like to make is that his contribution is far more than the showy, obvious bits, and that’s why he’s in the team every week. I don’t think he’s lucky to be in the team, I’ve come to see that he’s right at the heart of the team, and this is a good team. His contribution includes always being in the right place to receive the ball, making long runs / tracking back when we’ve lost possession, and tackling and intercepting. If he could shoot a bit more it would be even better!

 

[justanotherfan]

It`s like comparing apples with oranges. Take PAFC out of the equation and GC10 has a similar goals per game tally as Mr Mayor. GC10 only really blossomed at PAFC. Cue HCG. I for one would rather have Mr Mayor on our side than playing against us. Ask Mr Sarcevic why he suddenly became a driving midfield player who had the space to score so many last season.

 

[davie nine]

I always find it strange when people say Mayor is the man linking up the play before providing the ball to the actual assister of the goal etc.

They choose to completely ignore the fact that since Mayor has been at Argyle he has been in countless advanced positions inside the box approaching from wide - but consistently fails to deliver. You would think that Mayor doesn't cross the halfway line the way some folk on here try to go on about his style. Since he's been at Argyle, he is always in and around the box, doing his trademark weaving in from the wide position into the box and often onto the edge of the 6 yard box (in addition to driving from deep), but he just fails to produce anything from it all. I get bored watching him do the same thing over and over again. He doesn't appear good enough to actually beat a defender and then score a goal or do anything of note. The better the defender he comes up against, he struggles to even beat them.

Mayor is wonderful to watch but so is Hatem Ben Arfa, and he's at Bordeaux when he should really have been at Barcelona. Granted he should be playing in the team, but the hype from some is ridiculous and I do think for a number of reasons it would be beneficial to occasionally drop him.

Another thing I've noticed are fans on here saying that people are suggesting that because he doesn't deliver goals/assists, it makes him a poor player. I don't think anyone has directly said that :eh:. However, you expect an attacking midfielder who has been billed as the main man to produce the goods - and he doesn't. I don't think there are many attacking midfield players out there who arrive with his kind of profile to a club, and deliver next to nothing in terms of numbers. That's what attacking midfield players are judged on.

Noone is saying he is a poor player because of his lack of end product, just that he's not anywhere near as good as made out to be, and quite honestly for what he produces, he's very lucky to be in the undroppable situation he finds himself in with Lowe. I can't help but think that fans cut him extra slack because what he does is a bit more exciting than a midfielder passing sideways for 90 minutes, or a defender passing square and back for 90 minutes. What I mean by that is he spends so much time in the game, twisting in and out with the ball but achieving nothing, dribbling around and actually often getting nowhere, or trying to beat a man but finding himself cornered with 2 defenders now cornering him etc etc

If he was at a club with better resources in this league, think the likes of Peterborough, Sunderland, Charlton etc I think he would struggle to be a regular week in week out. Don't underestimate the quality of players they have in their ranks. Think players like Toney, Maddison, Jonny Williams, Will Grigg, Aiden McGeady etc etc Heck, I don't think MacFadzean has even had a sniff at Sunderland yet (granted he had little pre-season of course). But still, I think people are hugely overestimating Mayor on the whole. He has a lovely touch and wonderful skill, but that's really about it. There's lots of players out there with that and more.

I am convinced that Danny Mayor is a valuable player to the style that Argyle play.
However, I do find it very difficult to challenge a lot of the points that you are making.
The thing that intrigues me most is the fact that, in his last season at Bury, he scored 8 goals and provided 9 direct assists. It would be very interesting to see a collage of those positive contributions and try to understand what has changed.
Is he playing in a less attacking role, is he missing a colleague who enabled him to get into positions that make it appear that he was more successful at Bury?
I would imagine that RL and SS have tried to find the answer but, in the meantime, no one will convince me that he is not still a major asset to our club.

 

[oldage]

I always find it strange when people say Mayor is the man linking up the play before providing the ball to the actual assister of the goal etc.

They choose to completely ignore the fact that since Mayor has been at Argyle he has been in countless advanced positions inside the box approaching from wide - but consistently fails to deliver. You would think that Mayor doesn't cross the halfway line the way some folk on here try to go on about his style. Since he's been at Argyle, he is always in and around the box, doing his trademark weaving in from the wide position into the box and often onto the edge of the 6 yard box (in addition to driving from deep), but he just fails to produce anything from it all. I get bored watching him do the same thing over and over again. He doesn't appear good enough to actually beat a defender and then score a goal or do anything of note. The better the defender he comes up against, he struggles to even beat them.

Mayor is wonderful to watch but so is Hatem Ben Arfa, and he's at Bordeaux when he should really have been at Barcelona. Granted he should be playing in the team, but the hype from some is ridiculous and I do think for a number of reasons it would be beneficial to occasionally drop him.

Another thing I've noticed are fans on here saying that people are suggesting that because he doesn't deliver goals/assists, it makes him a poor player. I don't think anyone has directly said that :eh:. However, you expect an attacking midfielder who has been billed as the main man to produce the goods - and he doesn't. I don't think there are many attacking midfield players out there who arrive with his kind of profile to a club, and deliver next to nothing in terms of numbers. That's what attacking midfield players are judged on.

Noone is saying he is a poor player because of his lack of end product, just that he's not anywhere near as good as made out to be, and quite honestly for what he produces, he's very lucky to be in the undroppable situation he finds himself in with Lowe. I can't help but think that fans cut him extra slack because what he does is a bit more exciting than a midfielder passing sideways for 90 minutes, or a defender passing square and back for 90 minutes. What I mean by that is he spends so much time in the game, twisting in and out with the ball but achieving nothing, dribbling around and actually often getting nowhere, or trying to beat a man but finding himself cornered with 2 defenders now cornering him etc etc

If he was at a club with better resources in this league, think the likes of Peterborough, Sunderland, Charlton etc I think he would struggle to be a regular week in week out. Don't underestimate the quality of players they have in their ranks. Think players like Toney, Maddison, Jonny Williams, Will Grigg, Aiden McGeady etc etc Heck, I don't think MacFadzean has even had a sniff at Sunderland yet (granted he had little pre-season of course). But still, I think people are hugely overestimating Mayor on the whole. He has a lovely touch and wonderful skill, but that's really about it. There's lots of players out there with that and more.

I am convinced that Danny Mayor is a valuable player to the style that Argyle play.
However, I do find it very difficult to challenge a lot of the points that you are making.
The thing that intrigues me most is the fact that, in his last season at Bury, he scored 8 goals and provided 9 direct assists. It would be very interesting to see a collage of those positive contributions and try to understand what has changed.
Is he playing in a less attacking role, is he missing a colleague who enabled him to get into positions that make it appear that he was more successful at Bury?
I would imagine that RL and SS have tried to find the answer but, in the meantime, no one will convince me that he is not still a major asset to our club.

Nobody will convince me Mayor is a major asset until he lives up to expectations.

 

[up the line]

I always find it strange when people say Mayor is the man linking up the play before providing the ball to the actual assister of the goal etc.

They choose to completely ignore the fact that since Mayor has been at Argyle he has been in countless advanced positions inside the box approaching from wide - but consistently fails to deliver. You would think that Mayor doesn't cross the halfway line the way some folk on here try to go on about his style. Since he's been at Argyle, he is always in and around the box, doing his trademark weaving in from the wide position into the box and often onto the edge of the 6 yard box (in addition to driving from deep), but he just fails to produce anything from it all. I get bored watching him do the same thing over and over again. He doesn't appear good enough to actually beat a defender and then score a goal or do anything of note. The better the defender he comes up against, he struggles to even beat them.

Mayor is wonderful to watch but so is Hatem Ben Arfa, and he's at Bordeaux when he should really have been at Barcelona. Granted he should be playing in the team, but the hype from some is ridiculous and I do think for a number of reasons it would be beneficial to occasionally drop him.

Another thing I've noticed are fans on here saying that people are suggesting that because he doesn't deliver goals/assists, it makes him a poor player. I don't think anyone has directly said that :eh:. However, you expect an attacking midfielder who has been billed as the main man to produce the goods - and he doesn't. I don't think there are many attacking midfield players out there who arrive with his kind of profile to a club, and deliver next to nothing in terms of numbers. That's what attacking midfield players are judged on.

Noone is saying he is a poor player because of his lack of end product, just that he's not anywhere near as good as made out to be, and quite honestly for what he produces, he's very lucky to be in the undroppable situation he finds himself in with Lowe. I can't help but think that fans cut him extra slack because what he does is a bit more exciting than a midfielder passing sideways for 90 minutes, or a defender passing square and back for 90 minutes. What I mean by that is he spends so much time in the game, twisting in and out with the ball but achieving nothing, dribbling around and actually often getting nowhere, or trying to beat a man but finding himself cornered with 2 defenders now cornering him etc etc

If he was at a club with better resources in this league, think the likes of Peterborough, Sunderland, Charlton etc I think he would struggle to be a regular week in week out. Don't underestimate the quality of players they have in their ranks. Think players like Toney, Maddison, Jonny Williams, Will Grigg, Aiden McGeady etc etc Heck, I don't think MacFadzean has even had a sniff at Sunderland yet (granted he had little pre-season of course). But still, I think people are hugely overestimating Mayor on the whole. He has a lovely touch and wonderful skill, but that's really about it. There's lots of players out there with that and more.

I am convinced that Danny Mayor is a valuable player to the style that Argyle play.
However, I do find it very difficult to challenge a lot of the points that you are making.
The thing that intrigues me most is the fact that, in his last season at Bury, he scored 8 goals and provided 9 direct assists. It would be very interesting to see a collage of those positive contributions and try to understand what has changed.
Is he playing in a less attacking role, is he missing a colleague who enabled him to get into positions that make it appear that he was more successful at Bury?
I would imagine that RL and SS have tried to find the answer but, in the meantime, no one will convince me that he is not still a major asset to our club.

Nobody will convince me Mayor is a major asset until he lives up to expectations.

Play the next 12 games without him and the same people will be scratching their heads why we've slipped 12 places.
The only midfielder in the squad who routinely takes us from our own third to the oppositions final third. The others have their own skill sets, whether its breaking up play or keeping possession ticking over, but none of Grant, Camara, Fornah, Reeve, McLeod are going to come deep to our final third, turn the opponent and drag us 40 yards forward without a long aimless punt from a CB.

But he'll never convince those whose only measure is 'goals scored' and don't see things like 'yards gained from a tight spot' or 'space created for other players' or 'opponents dragged out if position'.

If you're only bothered when the ball goes in the net, you'll only rate the goalscorer