Philosophy and identity

[demportdave]

Somebody has obviously mentioned it before on here no doubt but Argyle really should have a real think about adopting the moneyball theorem at Home Park, there are already yank money links to the club so I would be surprised if the chairman hasn’t at least looked at it.

You might have missed the point here. The reason that the Oakland Athletics adopted the “moneyball theorem” was because they didn’t actually have any money, or at least nothing like the money available to the likes of their big rivals in the AL such as the Red Sox, Yankees and Angels.

They had to get maximum value for the salaries they could afford to pay their players and to do that they employed the principle of sabre metrics which looks at all of the many and complex statistics produced in baseball in order to establish the effectiveness of individual players. They also looked more closely at some of the statistics not considered significant by most other statisticians.

Most football clubs employed analysts these days but they tend to focus more on the team performance rather than that of the individual.

 

[Argylegames]

They’re pitch markings, you loon. They can be changed every season, possibly every week.

Not quite Biggs. The width can be altered certainly, up to a point. When the pitch was completely dug out and the new one put in they buried the goal mounting points (plus ones for Rugby!), so the length of the pitch is fixed and has been for several years. I'm not sure why Rochdale thinks Adams had the pitch shortened, he couldn't. I'm pretty sure they narrowed the pitch this season to allow the dugouts and manager areas to be moved away from the grandstand. If you look at the GoS and other photos you can see the drain at pitchside which is well behind the current temporary fence.

 

[Biggs]

Well yeah ok, the point remains though that none of these things are sacrosanct or somehow shouldn’t be changed.

Getting back to the point, I agree that the pitch should suit expansive football. Though it’s funny how small pitches have often been home to some of the best passing sides in history, Arsenal at Highbury and Ajax at their tiny old ground.

I would even say that a small pitch could suit tight intricate passing more than a big pitch with its wide open spaces to whack balls ‘into the channels’. Like how a 5 a side game is almost a different sport to the long ball stuff you see in Sunday league.

 

[Guiri Green]

Ummm... you’ve lost me. What’s that got to do with changing the pitch width?

Managers at every club choose the pitch dimensions at the start of the season, they’re just markings...

No they are F****** well not just F****** pitch markings, They are to me, who has never had the privilege of setting foot on Home Park's turf (cos of silly stewards), the markings that depict our home, our Home Park. You don't get it cos you don't have my heritage,so no point in prolonging the conversation.

Your heritage ? Are you the fabled Duke of Devonport, the Peverell Peer or Sir Pennycombe of Quick ?

 

[justanotherfan]

Ummm... you’ve lost me. What’s that got to do with changing the pitch width?

Managers at every club choose the pitch dimensions at the start of the season, they’re just markings...

No they are F****** well not just F****** pitch markings, They are to me, who has never had the privilege of setting foot on Home Park's turf (cos of silly stewards), the markings that depict our home, our Home Park. You don't get it cos you don't have my heritage,so no point in prolonging the conversation.

Reminds me of Trigger having the same broom for the past 20 years or so, although it has had 12 new handles and 10 new heads. By the way, the terminology Dork loses you whatever sympathy may have been present for your opinions.

 

[RochdaleGreen]

By the way, the terminology Dork loses you whatever sympathy may have been present for your opinions.

I apologise to you and other posters. I was wrong to use the word "dork". I was a bit emotional, following the tragic events of the last week. I didn't post at all in the immediate aftermath of the relegation, but the reduction in length and width of our pitch has been a massive bugbear for me for the last three years, and it all spilled over into my emotions. Sorry once again.

Up the Argyle!

 

[Biggs]

Michael Dunford mentioned Norwich as the club we should aspire to be, and their recruitment should also be aspired to.

Under a German manager, they've taken unknowns from all over Europe and dominated the Championship. Onel Hernandez from Eintracht Braunschweig, Emiliano Buendia from Getafe reserves, Mario Vrancic from Darmstadt and a handful more I can't be bothered to type out. This is supplemented by their own youth products. They simply wouldn't have anywhere near the same success if they were playing the same game as everyone else, and going for the same players and managers.

We had similar success albeit not quite at the same level, with Buszaky, Friio, Larrieu, Halmos, Timar et al so for me that HAS to be the way forward.

 

[Todric]

By the way, the terminology Dork loses you whatever sympathy may have been present for your opinions.

I apologise to you and other posters. I was wrong to use the word "dork". I was a bit emotional, following the tragic events of the last week. I didn't post at all in the immediate aftermath of the relegation, but the reduction in length and width of our pitch has been a massive bugbear for me for the last three years, and it all spilled over into my emotions. Sorry once again.

Up the Argyle!

Respect to you for posting the above.

 

[RochdaleGreen]

I'm not sure why Rochdale thinks Adams had the pitch shortened, he couldn't. I'm pretty sure they narrowed the pitch this season to allow the dugouts and manager areas to be moved away from the grandstand. If you look at the GoS and other photos you can see the drain at pitchside which is well behind the current temporary fence.

Argylegames, You are not right.

Below is the link to the club's official website in August 2016, where Adams confirms: "We have taken it in... It’s two metres shorter each way."

https://www.pafc.co.uk/news/2016/august/pitch-perfect/

Adams did it in 2016. It was nothing to do with the new Grandstand. It was nothing to do with concrete on either side. It was nothing to do with the positioning of the existing goalposts. He just shrank it, in his dictatorial style!

So let's have back the two metres either side in width, and the two metres either side in length.

 

[Kit Kat and Oranges]

Michael Dunford mentioned Norwich as the club we should aspire to be, and their recruitment should also be aspired to.

Under a German manager, they've taken unknowns from all over Europe and dominated the Championship. Onel Hernandez from Eintracht Braunschweig, Emiliano Buendia from Getafe reserves, Mario Vrancic from Darmstadt and a handful more I can't be bothered to type out. This is supplemented by their own youth products. They simply wouldn't have anywhere near the same success if they were playing the same game as everyone else, and going for the same players and managers.

We had similar success albeit not quite at the same level, with Buszaky, Friio, Larrieu, Halmos, Timar et al so for me that HAS to be the way forward.

I agree, although I think it is likely easier to follow this approach when in the championship, If you look at the squads of other league teams this season, there are very few teams with many non British or Irish players, which must point to it being difficult to do from a financial point of view or a lack vision to look elsewhere for players. But as you point out with the cases of Friio and Larrieu, it can work in the lower leagues. As ever, i guess finance plays a role in it as you have to be able to scout players abroad which costs money, but ideally it is an approach Argyle should utilize. So often our location is stated as a barrier in recruiting British players, so trying to bring in more players from Europe has always seemed to me a logical way of trying to bypass this problem. As mentioned at the start of this thread, I would love Argyle to adopt a quick, passing football philosophy and trying to recruit more players from Europe to bypass the recruitment issues we face with British players would probably help with this. Whether it is financially possible I don't know, but, if it is, I cant see why the club wouldn't want to go down this route.

 

[justanotherfan]

By the way, the terminology Dork loses you whatever sympathy may have been present for your opinions.

I apologise to you and other posters. I was wrong to use the word "dork". I was a bit emotional, following the tragic events of the last week. I didn't post at all in the immediate aftermath of the relegation, but the reduction in length and width of our pitch has been a massive bugbear for me for the last three years, and it all spilled over into my emotions. Sorry once again.

Up the Argyle!

Keep on postng.

 

[JonB]

I'm not sure why Rochdale thinks Adams had the pitch shortened, he couldn't. I'm pretty sure they narrowed the pitch this season to allow the dugouts and manager areas to be moved away from the grandstand. If you look at the GoS and other photos you can see the drain at pitchside which is well behind the current temporary fence.

Argylegames, You are not right.

Below is the link to the club's official website in August 2016, where Adams confirms: "We have taken it in... It’s two metres shorter each way."

https://www.pafc.co.uk/news/2016/august/pitch-perfect/

Adams did it in 2016. It was nothing to do with the new Grandstand. It was nothing to do with concrete on either side. It was nothing to do with the positioning of the existing goalposts. He just shrank it, in his dictatorial style!

So let's have back the two metres either side in width, and the two metres either side in length.

That’s not what the article says; it’s just 1m (yes, 1000mm) each side/end not two.

 

[Green Blooded]

Why would a bigger pitch have been preferable? :wtf:
We lacked pace, struggled to stop crosses, at times got run ragged by teams with good movement, and generally were very narrow with a lack of movement ourselves going forward.
I think a wide pitch would have just exacerbated and highlighted our flaws even more.

 

[Pogleswoody]

Why would a bigger pitch have been preferable? :wtf:
We lacked pace, struggled to stop crosses, at times got run ragged by teams with good movement, and generally were very narrow with a lack of movement ourselves going forward.
I think a wide pitch should have just exacerbated and highlighted our flaws even more.

Just think, a narrower pitch and Macey's throw might have gone out for a throw in!!