Plymouth Argyle's new manager?

[Metal Green Mickey]

All a load of nonsense. One of the criticisms of Mike Flynn is that all he does is play it long to a big man up front. So you can get to playoff finals launching it with no finesse apparently, at the same time as making the point that the game is far too advanced and nuanced for Ian Holloway to understand any more. Which overly simplistic point are you pushing this time?

As for Holloway's last three jobs being failures (getting Crystal Palace to the Prem?), can you talk me through that. Millwall and QPR have hardly kicked on significantly since he left, which suggests he wasn't the problem holding those clubs back. Millwall aren't particularly a force in the second tier and QPR have issues of their own. He brought through some promising young lads at those clubs, particularly Eze at QPR, a very promising young player who is getting better and better. He was 18 when Holloway gave him a run of starts in the Championship, and he made 42 appearances in the Championship last season aged 20 which suggests subsequent coaches agree he's good enough to start for them. Holloway did it with Gosling before with us. He knows how to pick a young player out and make a first teamer out of them, exactly what we could do with more of.

I'd love to see Ollie come in and make Cooper his number 1, build the lad up and make him feel like a world beater. Do Ryan Lowe and Mike Flynn have previous for doing this the way dinosaur Holloway has?

At Palace he lost the dressing room inside a year by his own admission.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/oct/23/ian-holloway-leaves-crystal-palace-mutual-consent

At Millwall his win ratio was 22.6% over 62 games.

And at QPR they were looking to reduce the wage bill and bring youth through. Yet he only won 26 of his 80 games and lost 40 games (50%) of them. He was doing an OK job but l hardly call it successful because he blooded a few youngsters. They still had some decent players with experience in that team.

Have a look at what Holloway does. He goes into a club. Brings his positive vibe. Yet will it last? Or is he just a passionate footballing wordsmith of a man who sounds great but his actions have proved they are just sound bites. We need someone long term, not a short fix solution just because we are in league two.

My point remains the same. At Palace he gained promotion but it quickly evaporated in front of him in months and so who was the last club he had sustained (and this is the vital word) at. I would say Blackpool but even if we take Palace’s promotion into account that still means it is still 5 or 6 years ago.

I never called him a dinosaur. I think he talks a lot of sense. The problem is that Holloway represent successful years from Argyles past and this romantic notion we have of him (like we do we ex players eg (Lavery)) is all built on the past.

We should be looking forward. Not back.

So you appreciate Holloway had a mission to reduce the wage bill at QPR, had no money and went for a policy of developing youth, but yet justify his sacking and believe it proves he hasn't got what it takes any more? When they were 16th? Even though a former England manager actually did worse without committing to develop the futures of 4-5 teenagers?

Holloway's job went sour after winning promotion to the Premier League at Palace, his signings were bad value and his judgement was poor. But if he had done well he wouldn't even be an option on the fourth tier. Trying to over analyse a season in the Premier League several years ago four divisions above where we find ourselves is just about as lacking in relevance as it gets.

It would be like suggesting Derek Adams is past it if the Plymouth Parkway job came up, because he lost the Argyle dressing room, and instead supporting a bloke called Mitch Matthews who did well at Callington and has done the FA's latest courses. That is pretty much how I equate your efforts to throw mud at Holloway when he is in a field of candidates who have never managed a (small) club in the Premier League, have no experience of those unique pressures and probably never will.

I have got to start by saying your comment about over analysing made me smile, but have to conclude your opinions about Adams this year were as lacking in relevance as it gets.

We can go round in circles here. You provide no evidence of sustained success by him in his last three club jobs. The QPR job that you mention you fail to acknowledge that he also had some very experienced players in that squad. It wasn’t just like a team full of youngsters. Aren’t most teams a mixture of youth and experience? So is 16th really that good? He would of had a better budget than sides like Burton, Barnsley and Bolton who he finished above.

When you look at the sides he finished above in the 17-18 Championship season you see Holloway did well to stabilise QPR. Yet if that quantified as “successful” surely he would of kept his job at the end of the season?

How we quantify success in football is open to debate. I dare say you thought Adams reign was successful even though after four years he took us back to the league where he had started from, so if that’s how you measure success then fair enough. It’s just not my way.

 

[buck197]

111 pages full of “fake news” on whether Ryan Lowe or someone else wants the job or not. He may not even be the number one target and yet he is quoted as playing games with Argyle which he may or may not be doing. RL maybe negotiating his salary or whoever is the chosen one. It’s the board who are taking their time in getting their man.

 

[Knibbsworth]

All a load of nonsense. One of the criticisms of Mike Flynn is that all he does is play it long to a big man up front. So you can get to playoff finals launching it with no finesse apparently, at the same time as making the point that the game is far too advanced and nuanced for Ian Holloway to understand any more. Which overly simplistic point are you pushing this time?

As for Holloway's last three jobs being failures (getting Crystal Palace to the Prem?), can you talk me through that. Millwall and QPR have hardly kicked on significantly since he left, which suggests he wasn't the problem holding those clubs back. Millwall aren't particularly a force in the second tier and QPR have issues of their own. He brought through some promising young lads at those clubs, particularly Eze at QPR, a very promising young player who is getting better and better. He was 18 when Holloway gave him a run of starts in the Championship, and he made 42 appearances in the Championship last season aged 20 which suggests subsequent coaches agree he's good enough to start for them. Holloway did it with Gosling before with us. He knows how to pick a young player out and make a first teamer out of them, exactly what we could do with more of.

I'd love to see Ollie come in and make Cooper his number 1, build the lad up and make him feel like a world beater. Do Ryan Lowe and Mike Flynn have previous for doing this the way dinosaur Holloway has?

At Palace he lost the dressing room inside a year by his own admission.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/oct/23/ian-holloway-leaves-crystal-palace-mutual-consent

At Millwall his win ratio was 22.6% over 62 games.

And at QPR they were looking to reduce the wage bill and bring youth through. Yet he only won 26 of his 80 games and lost 40 games (50%) of them. He was doing an OK job but l hardly call it successful because he blooded a few youngsters. They still had some decent players with experience in that team.

Have a look at what Holloway does. He goes into a club. Brings his positive vibe. Yet will it last? Or is he just a passionate footballing wordsmith of a man who sounds great but his actions have proved they are just sound bites. We need someone long term, not a short fix solution just because we are in league two.

My point remains the same. At Palace he gained promotion but it quickly evaporated in front of him in months and so who was the last club he had sustained (and this is the vital word) at. I would say Blackpool but even if we take Palace’s promotion into account that still means it is still 5 or 6 years ago.

I never called him a dinosaur. I think he talks a lot of sense. The problem is that Holloway represent successful years from Argyles past and this romantic notion we have of him (like we do we ex players eg (Lavery)) is all built on the past.

We should be looking forward. Not back.

So you appreciate Holloway had a mission to reduce the wage bill at QPR, had no money and went for a policy of developing youth, but yet justify his sacking and believe it proves he hasn't got what it takes any more? When they were 16th? Even though a former England manager actually did worse without committing to develop the futures of 4-5 teenagers?

Holloway's job went sour after winning promotion to the Premier League at Palace, his signings were bad value and his judgement was poor. But if he had done well he wouldn't even be an option on the fourth tier. Trying to over analyse a season in the Premier League several years ago four divisions above where we find ourselves is just about as lacking in relevance as it gets.

It would be like suggesting Derek Adams is past it if the Plymouth Parkway job came up, because he lost the Argyle dressing room, and instead supporting a bloke called Mitch Matthews who did well at Callington and has done the FA's latest courses. That is pretty much how I equate your efforts to throw mud at Holloway when he is in a field of candidates who have never managed a (small) club in the Premier League, have no experience of those unique pressures and probably never will.

I have got to start by saying your comment about over analysing made me smile, but have to conclude your opinions about Adams this year were as lacking in relevance as it gets.

We can go round in circles here. You provide no evidence of sustained success by him in his last three club jobs. The QPR job that you mention you fail to acknowledge that he also had some very experienced players in that squad. It wasn’t just like a team full of youngsters. Aren’t most teams a mixture of youth and experience? So is 16th really that good? He would have had a better budget than sides like Burton, Barnsley and Bolton who he finished above.

When you look at the sides he finished above in the 17-18 Championship season you see Holloway did well to stabilise QPR. Yet if that quantified as “successful” surely he would have kept his job at the end of the season?

How we quantify success in football is open to debate. I dare say you thought Adams reign was successful even though after four years he took us back to the league where he had started from, so if that’s how you measure success then fair enough. It’s just not my way.

You will have to quote specific posts I have made which you think lack relevance. I am directly addressing your critical judgement of Holloway's last season in the Premier League. What has that got to do with Argyle in League Two? He won't be pitting his wits against some of the best managers in the world on a fraction of their budget where we find ourselves.

Also can you remind me of the last time we fielded four or more teenagers in a league game seeing as you seem to believe that strategy is so commonplace. How many appearances did Cooper, Jephcott, Sangster and Fletcher get between them last season? Holloway gave his young lads at QPR more pitch time every fortnight than those lads are currently getting every season at Home Park.

 

[Guiri Green]

All a load of nonsense. One of the criticisms of Mike Flynn is that all he does is play it long to a big man up front. So you can get to playoff finals launching it with no finesse apparently, at the same time as making the point that the game is far too advanced and nuanced for Ian Holloway to understand any more. Which overly simplistic point are you pushing this time?

As for Holloway's last three jobs being failures (getting Crystal Palace to the Prem?), can you talk me through that. Millwall and QPR have hardly kicked on significantly since he left (Millwall only just about stayed up again this season), which suggests he wasn't the problem holding those clubs back. Millwall aren't particularly a force in the second tier and QPR have issues of their own - Holloway was sacked in 16th position 12 months ago and they finished 19th this season under Steve McClaren.

He brought through some promising young lads at those clubs, Smyth, Manning, Osayi Samuel and particularly Eze at QPR, a very promising young player who is getting better and better. He was 18 when Holloway gave him a run of starts, and he made 42 appearances in the Championship last season aged 20 which suggests subsequent coaches agree he's good enough for them too. The other youngsters got loaned out and replaced and then McClaren finished 3 positions lower! Holloway did it with Gosling before with us. He knows how to pick a young player out and make a first teamer out of them, exactly what we could do with more of next season at Home Park.

I'd love to see Ollie come in and make Cooper his number 1, build the lad up and make him feel like a world beater. Do Ryan Lowe and Mike Flynn have previous for doing this the way dinosaur Holloway has?

You consider Holloway a failure at QPR and yet whilst giving youth a chance he was only marginally behind Harry Redknapp as having the best win percentage of the Tony Fernandes era - better than McClaren, Hasselbaink, Mark Hughes and Chris Ramsey. And he did better using a lot of youngsters. So how does that constitute failure exactly? Spending nothing, giving academy lads a chance and doing better than your predecessors as well as ahead of 8 other clubs at his time of sacking is hardly failing in my book.

Totally agree with Knibbsworth. To me Holloway has not been unsuccessful in his last 5-6 years, it’s all relative .. you should only be compared to your resources, and in the last 5-6 years at Millwall and QPR Holloway has very little in the way of comparable resources.. so to me keeping both teams in the championship was decent if you ask me.

What I like about Holloway is that he plays good attacking football on the ground and he’s not afraid to blood youngsters if he needs to - our academy is improving and we’re starting to see the benefits I think, but we need a manager to play them.

So what would be relative success for Holloway at L2 Plymouth Argyle ? Knives out after one Season of non promotion ?

 

[loyal1970]

pity the owner don't listen to fan's want clearly ollie.

 

[X Isle]

pity the owner don't listen to fan's want clearly ollie.

(Once deciphered...)

Who says he doesn't? Unless I missed it we haven't appointed anyone yet.

Let the process conclude and then conduct the post mortem. You never know, the clear poll winner may yet get appointed.

 

[PlymOdi]

You're assuming the clear poll winner wants to be appointed.

 

[Biggs]

pity the owner don't listen to fan's want clearly ollie.

Why would he?

There are lots of things owners should listen to fans on, managerial appointments isn’t one of them.

 

[Martyn]

pity the owner don't listen to fan's want clearly ollie.

Who says the fans clearly want him.

May be a majority of here. But to say the fans clearly want him is somewhat ‘guessing’.

 

[JannerinCardiff]

pity the owner don't listen to fan's want clearly ollie.

Who says the fans clearly want him.

May be a majority of here. But to say the fans clearly want him is somewhat ‘guessing’.

Currently 51% of the voters in here want Holloway.. the highest anyone has achieved since the polls in this subject began.

 

[Guiri Green]

pity the owner don't listen to fan's want clearly ollie.

Who says the fans clearly want him.

May be a majority of here. But to say the fans clearly want him is somewhat ‘guessing’.

Currently 51% of the voters in here want Holloway.. the highest anyone has achieved since the polls in this subject began.

Give or take any mischief making.

 

[xmastree]

You're assuming the clear poll winner wants to be appointed.

Exactly.

Keep hearing on here that he desperately wants it. And he may well. Yet is he, or has he ever been, a real candidate? Has he applied? Has he made contact with the Board? Have the Board approached him? Has there been any other interaction between IH and Argyle that confirms his wish to be our next manager?

Does anyone on here truthfully know the answer to any of the above? I've heard that none of the above is the case, but there is so much nonsense on the Argyle rumour mill at the moment, that I take everything with a pinch of salt.

 

[arthpafc]

For me my bet would be on Keith Hill, think board would be favourable to results with limited budget, knowledge of the league. Chance of willing to relocate who hasn't been Plymouth before and thought its a nicer place to live and raise children than the grim north

 

[Welwyn Pilgrim]

Boateng To MK Dons probably rules out Tisdale if he was on the radar

 

[Dalton Is God]

Boateng To MK Dons probably rules out Tisdale if he was on the radar

City expecting around £75k+ in compensation too. Not bad for a freebie.