What budget did Ryan Lowe have?

[Paranoid Android]

The budget is just one factor, especially for lower tier clubs, who apart from a few exceptions have broadly similar budgets as a percentage of revenues.

You can however go off to Plymouth with a big wad in hand, in search of a Porsche 911, one that’s seen better days but still class. You wave the wonga in the salesman’s face but you only end up with a top of the range Ford Mondeo, because that’s all that’s available. And Porsches don’t come out in a pandemic.

 

[gaspargomez]

I don’t think Adams ever had a very big budget- the club were mainly signing reject journeymen under Brent. David Ijiha, Nathan Blisset etc. I bet Adams would love to have had Lowe’s budget.

I doubt if Lamerias or Ladapo were ever on big money at Argyle- their careers were going nowhere and they didn’t appear to be wanted at the time they signed. Ladapo had flopped elsewhere and Lamerias was a reserve player at a rival League One club. Carey was probably on modest wages when he first signed- it was his later contract that probably got expensive. But I imagine some of that was funded by the revenue from the Liverpool games.

Contrast that with players like Mayor, G.Cooper, Hardie and Ennis, some of whom commanded transfer fees. I reckon these players would have been in some demand within League One and their wage packets would probably reflect that.

As I said previously, Hallett gets the credit for funding all this at one of the most financially challenging times the club has faced.

 

[Paranoid Android]

I don’t think Adams ever had a very big budget- the club were mainly signing reject journeymen under Brent. David Ijiha, Nathan Blisset etc. I bet Adams would love to have had Lowe’s budget.

I doubt if Lamerias or Ladapo were ever on big money at Argyle- their careers were going nowhere and they didn’t appear to be wanted at the time they signed. Ladapo had flopped elsewhere and Lamerias was a reserve player at a rival League One club. Carey was probably on modest wages when he first signed- it was his later contract that probably got expensive. But I imagine some of that was funded by the revenue from the Liverpool games.

Contrast that with players like Mayor, G.Cooper, Hardie and Ennis, some of whom commanded transfer fees. I reckon these players would have been in some demand within League One and their wage packets would probably reflect that.

As I said previously, Hallett gets the credit for funding all this at one of the most financially challenging times the club has faced.

Does make me feel a bit nauseous every time I hear that. First and foremost, take the chairmen out of the equation, the actual player budget can't be much different because the club hasn't mysteriously found increased revenues from somewhere. We still have the same ticket capacity, same club shop, same concessions, same match day sales.

But this Chairman has spent a few million on a grandstand that's yet to make us any money, and is generously in a position to make a couple of small (by comparison with the top 6) aquisitions. 2 of the 4 mentioned were brought in on loan deals. Hallett decided to buy them. Ennis was out of contract and offloaded, not anywhere near the money they got back for Ladapo I suspect.

And that's before we make the comparison between league 1 then and now. A noticeably more competitive league now with some big clubs you wouldn't expect to see there. That's not to say the recruitment in defence has been a success, it's proven not to be. As I talked about before, budgets are one factor but not everything and not when comparing one period with another.

 

[HC Green]

I don’t think Adams ever had a very big budget- the club were mainly signing reject journeymen under Brent. David Ijiha, Nathan Blisset etc. I bet Adams would love to have had Lowe’s budget.

I doubt if Lamerias or Ladapo were ever on big money at Argyle- their careers were going nowhere and they didn’t appear to be wanted at the time they signed. Ladapo had flopped elsewhere and Lamerias was a reserve player at a rival League One club. Carey was probably on modest wages when he first signed- it was his later contract that probably got expensive. But I imagine some of that was funded by the revenue from the Liverpool games.

Contrast that with players like Mayor, G.Cooper, Hardie and Ennis, some of whom commanded transfer fees. I reckon these players would have been in some demand within League One and their wage packets would probably reflect that.

As I said previously, Hallett gets the credit for funding all this at one of the most financially challenging times the club has faced.

Does make me feel a bit nauseous every time I hear that. First and foremost, take the chairmen out of the equation, the actual player budget can't be much different because the club hasn't mysteriously found increased revenues from somewhere. We still have the same ticket capacity, same club shop, same concessions, same match day sales.

But this Chairman has spent a few million on a grandstand that's yet to make us any money, and is generously in a position to make a couple of small (by comparison with the top 6) aquisitions. 2 of the 4 mentioned were brought in on loan deals. Hallett decided to buy them. Ennis was out of contract and offloaded, not anywhere near the money they got back for Ladapo I suspect.

And that's before we make the comparison between league 1 then and now. A noticeably more competitive league now with some big clubs you wouldn't expect to see there. That's not to say the recruitment in defence has been a success, it's proven not to be. As I talked about before, budgets are one factor but not everything and not when comparing one period with another.

So the next Pasoti fact to excuse the poor results is that this season is more competitive, just how do you work that out, just how many more ‘big teams’ are there and how are they ‘bigger’ than teams previously in league 1?

 

[greenpilled]

So the answer to the original question is nobody barring the board and Ryan Lowe know what this seasons budget is.

I know one thing if the budget is not increased and the money spent wisely we will be lucky to stay in this league.

No, but considering we've lost several players and haven't made any eye-catching signings, we can make an educated guess that it's probably not massively increased from the 4.8m in 2019/20, which in turn probably remains lower mid-table in comparison with other league 1 clubs.

It would be great if the budget could be increased in a sustainable way. That isn't critical to us staying in League 1, or even contending for promotion, but we definitely do need to spend wisely. Currently, I don't think that finishing in the bottom 4 would represent a dramatic underperformance (in terms of league position relative to expenditure).

 

[Ave IT]

Did you know ? Barring a dramatic change in fortune for the last three games of the season ( which we all hope for) the results sequence and point age ( if you adjust to three points for a win) for the last 15 games of this season will be the worst in living memory, for league 1 or equivalent ( going back to all known records- 1920 season.).See Greens on screen “ seasons”......

Wow! Is that really true? This run has been pretty shocking and setting records for all the wrong reasons (like the 0-6 battering by Charlton) but that is amazing. I certainly can't remember a season like it for hot and cold streaks. I'm not anti-Lowe and not calling for his head but feel he has got off very lightly even with a below average budget. If we accept the 'Greenpilled' analysis (which seems to have decent evidence behind it) then Blackpool and Lincoln are punching well above their weight so shows just what can be achieved on a modest budget. If we do get off to a poor start next year then I'm sorry to say it may be time to call time on RL and hope someone can make the most of whoever he brings in this summer.

 

[Sideline Sam]

I think some people forget that we pay a premium on players wages to entice them to Plymouth and leave their families behind!
They could get less wages but massive peace of mind to stay near their roots! Remember we are out on a limb down here they have to fully relocate! As I have said before I would love to know the amount of first choice targets we get turned down on!

 

[doozer]

I’d be fairly confident we had a bottom half budget.....apart from mayor, g Cooper and Ennis who else would be on decent money ? ... we’ve got 5 loan players that I imagine we’re contributing very little towards and 2 or 3 academy players who won’t be on a great deal...of the rest , I can’t see the likes of camara, grant and aimson earning big money .

 

[Paranoid Android]

That's not to say the recruitment in defence has been a success, it's proven not to be. As I talked about before, budgets are one factor but not everything and not when comparing one period with another.[/quote]

So the next Pasoti fact to excuse the poor results is that this season is more competitive, just how do you work that out, just how many more ‘big teams’ are there and how are they ‘bigger’ than teams previously in league 1?

It’s quite hard to have a balanced discussion on Pasoti when there’s so much selective reading going on.

League 1 in 2018 didn’t include Hull, Sunderland and Ipswich. Wigan came top.

 

[JannerinCardiff]

The Swiss Ramble blog on football finance ranked League 1 clubs in order of their spend on wages here (based on figures in the club's accounts) in a twitter thread on the impact of covid.

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 2287997952

It's from March last year, and relates to League 1 as constituted for the 2018/19 season because that corresponds with the most recent set of accounts. So the list actually includes Argyle, but they just seem to have given us and a few other teams the league average - I think the abbreviated accounts that some clubs publish, including Argyle prior to this year, don't enable a calculation of wage costs.

Our subsequently reported wage bill of £4.8m in our most recent (more detailed) accounts (covering last season in League 2) equates to a weekly wage bill of 92k.

This suggests our (2019/20 League 2) wage bill would have ranked 13th out of 19 League 1 teams (in 2018/19), according to Swiss Ramble.

So pretty imprecise, and doesn't account for spend on transfers which is another component of the budget. But it suggests we're financially lower mid table in League 1 terms, which passes the sniff test of feeling about right.

Without actual hard evidence that would be roughly my thinking too that we currently have a budget of around lower mid table league 1 around the £4.8m figure that has been bandied around. and I think where we are in the league table is about right for our current budget.

Interesting that it’s been indicated that the new grandstand should provide an annual profit of £1m that Simon Hallett has said will be ploughed back into the club so we might assume that thus additional revenue will probably bring us up to a mid table league 1 budget once life returns to normal post Covid.

 

[xmastree]

The Swiss Ramble blog on football finance ranked League 1 clubs in order of their spend on wages here (based on figures in the club's accounts) in a twitter thread on the impact of covid.

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 2287997952

It's from March last year, and relates to League 1 as constituted for the 2018/19 season because that corresponds with the most recent set of accounts. So the list actually includes Argyle, but they just seem to have given us and a few other teams the league average - I think the abbreviated accounts that some clubs publish, including Argyle prior to this year, don't enable a calculation of wage costs.

Our subsequently reported wage bill of £4.8m in our most recent (more detailed) accounts (covering last season in League 2) equates to a weekly wage bill of 92k.

This suggests our (2019/20 League 2) wage bill would have ranked 13th out of 19 League 1 teams (in 2018/19), according to Swiss Ramble.

So pretty imprecise, and doesn't account for spend on transfers which is another component of the budget. But it suggests we're financially lower mid table in League 1 terms, which passes the sniff test of feeling about right.

Without actual hard evidence that would be roughly my thinking too that we currently have a budget of around lower mid table league 1 around the £4.8m figure that has been bandied around. and I think where we are in the league table is about right for our current budget.

Interesting that it’s been indicated that the new grandstand should provide an annual profit of £1m that Simon Hallett has said will be ploughed back into the club so we might assume that thus additional revenue will probably bring us up to a mid table league 1 budget once life returns to normal post Covid.

Who said that the grandstand should make a profit of £1m, and when did they say that?

 

[Kevin Pedlar]

So the answer to the original question is nobody barring the board and Ryan Lowe know what this seasons budget is.

I know one thing if the budget is not increased and the money spent wisely we will be lucky to stay in this league.

Nail. Hit. Head.

Though not surprising that the usual suspects have managed to turn it into an anti-Lowe thread. :scarf:

 

[JannerinCardiff]

The Swiss Ramble blog on football finance ranked League 1 clubs in order of their spend on wages here (based on figures in the club's accounts) in a twitter thread on the impact of covid.

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 2287997952

It's from March last year, and relates to League 1 as constituted for the 2018/19 season because that corresponds with the most recent set of accounts. So the list actually includes Argyle, but they just seem to have given us and a few other teams the league average - I think the abbreviated accounts that some clubs publish, including Argyle prior to this year, don't enable a calculation of wage costs.

Our subsequently reported wage bill of £4.8m in our most recent (more detailed) accounts (covering last season in League 2) equates to a weekly wage bill of 92k.

This suggests our (2019/20 League 2) wage bill would have ranked 13th out of 19 League 1 teams (in 2018/19), according to Swiss Ramble.

So pretty imprecise, and doesn't account for spend on transfers which is another component of the budget. But it suggests we're financially lower mid table in League 1 terms, which passes the sniff test of feeling about right.

Without actual hard evidence that would be roughly my thinking too that we currently have a budget of around lower mid table league 1 around the £4.8m figure that has been bandied around. and I think where we are in the league table is about right for our current budget.

Interesting that it’s been indicated that the new grandstand should provide an annual profit of £1m that Simon Hallett has said will be ploughed back into the club so we might assume that thus additional revenue will probably bring us up to a mid table league 1 budget once life returns to normal post Covid.

Who said that the grandstand should make a profit of £1m, and when did they say that?

Simon Hallett said it around the time the grandstand was about to start on the build. I think I read it from an interview with him in the herald .

 

[Argyle sy]

So another person on Twitter reiterating that we had the 7th lowest budget in league One this season. Given the number of season tickets sold, merchandise sold etc I would be very disappointed if this is true. If 7th lowest budget is accurate then the whole "competitive budget" statement are false.

 

[Deacster]

Whilst we were pathetic against Charlton, when I looked at their team and squad is is very clearly much better, more experienced and expensive than ours.

I would hazard an educated guess and suggest Lowes budget is a smidge less than Adam's. Carey, Lamieras and Ladapo were all on strong money and rightly so. Likewise Taylor, Ness, Bradley, Threlkeld, Sarcevic, etc would all be good earners. Basically that team/squad had far more senior pros than this, so even with a slight fiscal rise that squad would be more expensive per month than this.

A bit wide of the mark in your assumption on that list of players being on strong money (in football terms).

No it is not, relative for a club of our size in thus league.