What budget did Ryan Lowe have?

[HC Green]

Yes it was, especially for a club of our size in League 1.

 

[Deacster]

No it was not. This is a fun game isn't it? Stating opinions of facts does not win the argument. Adams budget was plentiful, full of senior players and enough for high quality loanees. This squad has less senior pros, the budgets would not be that different. At least Lowe kept us up on a similar budget........

 

[HC Green]

Mine are facts not opinions.

 

[Cobi Budge]

So another person on Twitter reiterating that we had the 7th lowest budget in league One this season. Given the number of season tickets sold, merchandise sold etc I would be very disappointed if this is true. If 7th lowest budget is accurate then the whole "competitive budget" statement are false.

The days when attendances were the sole predictor of budget size have long gone now. For example Brentford and Bournemouth both have budgets that enable them to fight to be in the Premier League, whereas we, with similar attendances, are currently nowhere near.

 

[Argyle sy]

So another person on Twitter reiterating that we had the 7th lowest budget in league One this season. Given the number of season tickets sold, merchandise sold etc I would be very disappointed if this is true. If 7th lowest budget is accurate then the whole "competitive budget" statement are false.

The days when attendances were the sole predictor of budget size have long gone now. For example Brentford and Bournemouth both have budgets that enable them to fight to be in the Premier League, whereas we, with similar attendances, are currently nowhere near.

I know Gobi, but if you stop and think about the level of income Argyle make through ticket sales, I follow, merchandise sales the notion that we have the 7th lowest budget is pretty embarrassing in my opinion. I fail to see how the 7th lowest budget in the division is a "competitive budget" unless we were merely competing with teams like Rochdale, Shrewsbury Town and AFC Wimbledon to stay in league 1. That should not make good reading for any Argyle fan if true. Yes we know that teams like Fleetwood Town and Burton Albion make a lot of money through non matchday revenue the notion that us, with our fan base is lower in the table regarding wages is a pretty sobering thought. Bear in mind that pre Covid we were in the top 7/8 attendances in leagues one and two, we should be aspiring to more than struggling to stay up whilst teams with smaller budgets are above us in the league.

 

[Knibbsworth]

Whilst we were pathetic against Charlton, when I looked at their team and squad is is very clearly much better, more experienced and expensive than ours.

I would hazard an educated guess and suggest Lowes budget is a smidge less than Adam's. Carey, Lamieras and Ladapo were all on strong money and rightly so. Likewise Taylor, Ness, Bradley, Threlkeld, Sarcevic, etc would all be good earners. Basically that team/squad had far more senior pros than this, so even with a slight fiscal rise that squad would be more expensive per month than this.

What makes you think Ladapo and Lameiras were on good money? Or that Bradley, Threlkeld and Sarcevic were good earners?

These players were found at clubs like Southend, Crawley and Shrewsbury, often unwanted and in their reserves and in one case admittedly overweight and depressed.

If yours is an “educated guess”, does that mean you have experience of football finances in a previous life as an ex player or manager, or maybe a football agent or chairman?

 

[DartPilgrim]

Mine are facts not opinions.

What is your opinion of a fact HC ? Is it something that you know because you have been told it first hand or maybe something that you were present at and able to witness .

 

[up the line]

Mine are facts not opinions.

Here's an undeniable fact.
If Lowe left now he'd be leaving us in a better position than V Neck did (ie. relegated to the lowest tier in English football).

 

[JannerinCardiff]

Mine are facts not opinions.

Here's an undeniable fact.
If Lowe left now he'd be leaving us in a better position than V Neck did (ie. relegated to the lowest tier in English football).

That fact is true.

 

[Knibbsworth]

Mine are facts not opinions.

Here's an undeniable fact.
If Lowe left now he'd be leaving us in a better position than V Neck did (ie. relegated to the lowest tier in English football).

We currently have 3 points more than the fateful disastrous Adams season you are referring to.

DA’s first season at this level, we finished 7th and not far off a playoff finish.

Let’s see what next season has in store before you start celebrating the genius of Ryan Lowe triumphing the ignorance of Derek Adams.

 

[Dan Ellard]

I've no idea what this seasons budget is but for last season Lowe said it was around the tenth highest budget in League Two.

Looking at the teams in League One and knowing the budget from last season I would guess the budget for this season is lower half, probably right about where we are in 16th place.
When setting budgets owners or directors would hope the manager over achieves, as Lowe did last season.

"My wage budget was probably tenth in League Two and we finished third and probably should have finished first.”

We have spent out on transfer fees this season, something we don't usually do, buying George Cooper, Hardie and Ennis.

Interestingly, there was a quote from James Brent in 2013 saying that we had a budget that was "in the top quarter/third of the division".

Admittedly a little bit before Adams' time, but that would imply (as it is surely unlikely that the budget would have drastically changed relative to the rest of League 2) that their budgets in League 2 were similar, Adams' maybe even slightly higher.

There was also a rumour going around in 17/18 i remember that we had the fifth lowest budget in League 1. So again, similar to what Lowe has had this season (if the seventh lowest budget rumour is true).

A lot of rumours, of course, but we're never going to know for sure unless we're Simon Hallett or Ryan Lowe are we.

Its easy to say that "x player will have commanded high wages", and I agree for Mayor and Cooper that was probably true, but it would also have been true for Carey when we renegotiated in 2017, and for reputable players like Diagouraga and David Goodwillie under JB. I'm very happy with SH as our chairman, extremely so, but based purely on rumours flying around (because that's all we can really use), I dont think our budget has increased hugely. Which is absolutely fine, if that's all we can afford.

 

[Graham Clark]

i have posted on this before in answer to HC Green's misplaced assertion about Ryan Lowe's budget compared to Derek Adams. Argyle gave the budget details (as much as they were able) in their financial report on the accounts for the year end June 2020 (see link - https://www.pafc.co.uk/news/2021/februa ... al-report/)

In summary wages and salaries are the major cost for Argyle. From the report,

Adams (League One) 2018-2019 £3.3m
Lowe (League Two) 2019=2020 £2.9m

Lowe (League One) - Argyle pledged their adherence (at the time) to the proposed salary cap for League One of £2.5m which was proposed in the close season but only confirmed in August 2020. Subsequently, it was challenged successfully. Other clubs gambled on expenditure pre-August 2020 that evaded that salary cap.

The wages and salaries costs stated are for all wage costs and not, for obvious reasons, the playing budget. Under Adams the team management structure was slimmer and the number of hospitality employees would have been less too. that implies that the playing budget may have been proportionately even more

On the reasonable basis of the above, it is safe to assume that Ryan Lowe's playing budget for 2020-2021 was significantly lower than when we were last in League One after Adams. The Ennis acquisition may have equated to Wooton and Cavanan's wages and with Woods on loan I doubt come February 2021 whether the wage bill was materially altered.

League One survival is a reasonable expectation and achievement on the above basis. Swindon and Northampton did not manage it.

Next season will see our greatest challenge in recent years on recruitment. We have a number of players to recruit at a time when the standard of League One next season will be something like the lower reaches of the Championship in previous seasons, in terms of standard of clubs and quality of play. Reassuringly, for me at last, that recruitment will, initially at least, be on a structured data based analysis rather than a gut instinct whim. I have posted elsewhere that we have won less aerial duels than any other club in League One. We only scored 8 gaols from set pieces - Burton Albion scored 23!. We achieved the lowest number of interceptions in play than any other team. The data provides the framework for what we need.

Both have a part to play in recruitment but I remember Paul Sturrock saying that only 50% of his signings were successful. We simply cannot afford that rate of success and we have to do better. Hopefully, with the promise of fans back at Home Park the purse strings for next season's playing budget will be slightly expanded within the club's expressed pathway to maintaining a sustainable Club.

 

[Lobster]

i have posted on this before in answer to HC Green's misplaced assertion about Ryan Lowe's budget compared to Derek Adams. Argyle gave the budget details (as much as they were able) in their financial report on the accounts for the year end June 2020 (see link - https://www.pafc.co.uk/news/2021/februa ... al-report/)

In summary wages and salaries are the major cost for Argyle. From the report,

Adams (League One) 2018-2019 £3.3m
Lowe (League Two) 2019=2020 £2.9m

Lowe (League One) - Argyle pledged their adherence (at the time) to the proposed salary cap for League One of £2.5m which was proposed in the close season but only confirmed in August 2020. Subsequently, it was challenged successfully. Other clubs gambled on expenditure pre-August 2020 that evaded that salary cap.

The wages and salaries costs stated are for all wage costs and not, for obvious reasons, the playing budget. Under Adams the team management structure was slimmer and the number of hospitality employees would have been less too. that implies that the playing budget may have been proportionately even more

On the reasonable basis of the above, it is safe to assume that Ryan Lowe's playing budget for 2020-2021 was significantly lower than when we were last in League One after Adams. The Ennis acquisition may have equated to Wooton and Cavanan's wages and with Woods on loan I doubt come February 2021 whether the wage bill was materially altered.

League One survival is a reasonable expectation and achievement on the above basis. Swindon and Northampton did not manage it.

Next season will see our greatest challenge in recent years on recruitment. We have a number of players to recruit at a time when the standard of League One next season will be something like the lower reaches of the Championship in previous seasons, in terms of standard of clubs and quality of play. Reassuringly, for me at last, that recruitment will, initially at least, be on a structured data based analysis rather than a gut instinct whim. I have posted elsewhere that we have won less aerial duels than any other club in League One. We only scored 8 gaols from set pieces - Burton Albion scored 23!. We achieved the lowest number of interceptions in play than any other team. The data provides the framework for what we need.

Both have a part to play in recruitment but I remember Paul Sturrock saying that only 50% of his signings were successful. We simply cannot afford that rate of success and we have to do better. Hopefully, with the promise of fans back at Home Park the purse strings for next season's playing budget will be slightly expanded within the club's expressed pathway to maintaining a sustainable Club.

Good and informative post as always, Graham.

 

[dunlop]

I hope we actually sign players that are committed rather than a team dominated by loanees.

 

[PL2 3DQ]

I don't think the quantity of the loans is the problem, it's the quality and attitude that matters.
Last season we had six loans, Palmer, Hardie, Cooper, Grant and Bakinson all played a huge part in our promotion. Only Rudden could be deemed a failure.

This season the loan players haven't been the same standard or shown the same commitment, especially the two from Fulham.
I think the loans this season were mainly squad fillers due to the uncertainty of finances and Covid but eventually had to be regulars in the first team and struggled.