Argyle “It is what it is”

[Balham Green]

My point is Davem that Rich stated '`It what it is' was a typical British statement.

Your words above prove that it probably most certainly isn't typically British.

Probably most certainly ... Isn't typically??!

 

[Balham Green]

It is what it is a a very defeatist British statement.

:greensmile:

Not quite sure what your point is here Ian in posting a chart of the final Olympic medals table. Our successes in Rio have not happened by chance.

Neither is it just the result of a lot of hard work by the athletes and their coaches. It has been a long time in the making and cost many millions of pounds.

Our recent excellent Olympic performances are the result of significant investment in a number of sports from the Lottery and other sources dating back 20 years and initiated by John Major after our dismal performance at the Atlanta Olympics in 1996.

If Argyle (or any other club) had sustained investment over such a long period of time, perhaps we would be similarly successful and we wouldn't have to settle for the gallant loser/failure role we so readily accept.

I am proud to be British and quite patriotic, but in what other country would someone like Eddie the Eagle be celebrated?

But money hasn't helped the international football team.

 

[Balham Green]

My point is Davem that Rich stated '`It what it is' was a typical British statement.

Your words above prove that it probably most certainly isn't typically British.

Can I just check are you arguing we are a successful sporting country based on one Olympic's success?

We glorify losers and we always have done. Do you think the Germans have to get sentimental about 2 semi finals since 1966?

To add to my point I just watched a show about how terrible English cricket was in the 1990s!

Only country in the world to win the rugby and football world cups. I think we are 2nd in cricket rankings.

 

[Bristol Rich]

It is what it is a a very defeatist British statement.

:greensmile:

Not quite sure what your point is here Ian in posting a chart of the final Olympic medals table. Our successes in Rio have not happened by chance.

Neither is it just the result of a lot of hard work by the athletes and their coaches. It has been a long time in the making and cost many millions of pounds.

Our recent excellent Olympic performances are the result of significant investment in a number of sports from the Lottery and other sources dating back 20 years and initiated by John Major after our dismal performance at the Atlanta Olympics in 1996.

If Argyle (or any other club) had sustained investment over such a long period of time, perhaps we would be similarly successful and we wouldn't have to settle for the gallant loser/failure role we so readily accept.

I am proud to be British and quite patriotic, but in what other country would someone like Eddie the Eagle be celebrated?

But money hasn't helped the international football team.

It's different because actually for all the money in football it's not directed enough at making the national team good. The England cricket board have central contracts and prioritise the national team at the expense of counties. The Olympic investment was a long term project soley for representing team GB which now reaps great reward. Football let's be honest is about the Premiership and club teams mostly and the England team comes a poor second in the eyes of the money men.

 

[Bristol Rich]

My point is Davem that Rich stated '`It what it is' was a typical British statement.

Your words above prove that it probably most certainly isn't typically British.

Can I just check are you arguing we are a successful sporting country based on one Olympic's success?

We glorify losers and we always have done. Do you think the Germans have to get sentimental about 2 semi finals since 1966?

To add to my point I just watched a show about how terrible English cricket was in the 1990s!

Only country in the world to win the rugby and football world cups. I think we are 2nd in cricket rankings.

Football is our national sport and our international record is shocking, count how many knock out tournament games we have won since 66. Cricket as in my other post became significantly better when we prioritised the national team and to be fair I'm quoting Nasser Hussain there.

 

[demportdave]

It is what it is a a very defeatist British statement.

:greensmile:

Not quite sure what your point is here Ian in posting a chart of the final Olympic medals table. Our successes in Rio have not happened by chance.

Neither is it just the result of a lot of hard work by the athletes and their coaches. It has been a long time in the making and cost many millions of pounds.

Our recent excellent Olympic performances are the result of significant investment in a number of sports from the Lottery and other sources dating back 20 years and initiated by John Major after our dismal performance at the Atlanta Olympics in 1996.

If Argyle (or any other club) had sustained investment over such a long period of time, perhaps we would be similarly successful and we wouldn't have to settle for the gallant loser/failure role we so readily accept.

I am proud to be British and quite patriotic, but in what other country would someone like Eddie the Eagle be celebrated?

But money hasn't helped the international football team.

Perhaps it would if more of the Sky money was invested in grass roots development on properly qualified Youth coaches and 4G pitches to produce more home-grown talent.

Instead, the majority of it is spent on foreign mercanaries who are only here for the money and to provide instant success for the overseas owners who are buying up our clubs as vanity projects and who have no interest in the fortunes of the English national team.

Have a look around Holland or Germany and see the facilities available to young footballers. It would only require a small portion of the Sky money to provide similar facilities.

 

[Argy1e]

Producing the home grown talent isn't the issue, the England youth set up is generally one of the best, but the transition from youth player to first team player is where the clubs are letting the player and national team down.

 

[Stuart House]

Rich is the one that is currently ensuring I don't give in and still travel down most weeks.

 

[Bristol Rich]

Rich is the one that is currently ensuring I don't give in and still travel down most weeks.

And we even inflict it on your 2 year old daughter!

 

[ProfGreen]

I think that the biggest problem with Argyle is Plymouth itself. You become a product of the environment that you are surrounded by and unfortunately the stigma attached to Argyle from the majority of Plymouth residents is 'Argyle are crap' or 'why would you waste the money going to watch argyle when you can go to the pub and watch Liverpool'. This is impressed upon you from an early age and it's now outside of the social norm to be an 'Argyle fan' at school in Plymouth. When people asked me who I support throughout school, and still even sometimes now, when I responded with Argyle they would snigger a bit and then say 'no who in the Premiership'?

For Argyle to not just be 'it is what it is' this reputation in the city has to change somehow. It needs to be the norm to be brought up supporting your city side with your friends around you, and not just becoming a fan because you went with your Dad for 10 years and got the bug. It'd be fine if it was that way if all (football enjoying) parents took their children, because everyone catches the bug, but as above, the majority don't attend themselves and would rather sit in front of the big screen.

It's a sad state of affairs really as the club has huge potential with the stadium, facilities surrounding us, by the seaside a great place to live and also a huge fan catchment area.

If I have children and they enjoy football, I'll ensure to do what I've outlined. We just need everyone else in the city to do the same - easier said than done.

 

[Adam R]

2 things stuck out through this thread:

1. Those who have drifted away due to "it is what it is" have obviously been replaced as Ian says gates are increasing. One would hope that in time when success is on the cards those drifters return and we have a newly increased fanbase.

2. Sky has meant that a lot of people my age (31) have grown up with a Sky team - therefore their kids will support a PL team "because thats who my dad supports". Unless we reach the PL that mantra seems irreversible.

Whilst not huge, i think the club have done a good job in keeping gate numbers so high over the years. 8,000 in the bAsement league isn't to be sniffed at regardless of the catchment are, historic attendances etc.

There is no overnight fix to gate numbers, hopefully we can see a period of progression, success, hell even nice football, that may attract a few more hundred back each year.

 

[Andy Holland]

I think that the biggest problem with Argyle is Plymouth itself. You become a product of the environment that you are surrounded by and unfortunately the stigma attached to Argyle from the majority of Plymouth residents is 'Argyle are crap' or 'why would you waste the money going to watch argyle when you can go to the pub and watch Liverpool'. This is impressed upon you from an early age and it's now outside of the social norm to be an 'Argyle fan' at school in Plymouth. When people asked me who I support throughout school, and still even sometimes now, when I responded with Argyle they would snigger a bit and then say 'no who in the Premiership'?

For Argyle to not just be 'it is what it is' this reputation in the city has to change somehow. It needs to be the norm to be brought up supporting your city side with your friends around you, and not just becoming a fan because you went with your Dad for 10 years and got the bug. It'd be fine if it was that way if all (football enjoying) parents took their children, because everyone catches the bug, but as above, the majority don't attend themselves and would rather sit in front of the big screen.

It's a sad state of affairs really as the club has huge potential with the stadium, facilities surrounding us, by the seaside a great place to live and also a huge fan catchment area.

If I have children and they enjoy football, I'll ensure to do what I've outlined. We just need everyone else in the city to do the same - easier said than done.

I've said it many times on here, but for me the lack of support for Argyle is directly linked to a lack of local pride in the Plymouth area - I'm sure IJN or someone will be along to say how much he loves the city, but I think he's sadly the exception.

I personally think Plymouth is great and I'd be happy to live there again, but the vast, vast majority of my peers - as a 31 year old - don't feel like that in the slightest, and in fact think Plymouth is pretty rubbish, ugly and with nothing going on, and they couldn't wait to get away and very rarely go down to visit.

I always go back to the idea of local identity - there's no "Geordie Nation", "Scouse", "Manc" or dare I say "Cornish" identity for Plymouthians to latch on to, "Janner" is almost a pee-take term which isn't seen as something to aspire to. I wouldn't go so far as to say people are ashamed to be from Plymouth, but I do think there's a large amount of indifference and that's reflected in the lack of local support for the team that represents the city.

 

[crownhill pilgrim]

Agree tbh. Thoroughly enjoyed most of it. Think the issue over the falling crowds was that in the first season you had all these 'biggish' clubs(Leeds, West Ham,Sunderland etc..) playing at HP for the first time in many a year so it drew the crowds in. The year after and in following seasons the 'glamour or novelty' for want of better words wore off.

The last 2 seasons were terrible, but apart from that, it was enjoyable... never looked like going up, but not relegation candidates either until the ill-fated Sturrock mkII years.

 

[Bermudian Green]

I've said it many times on here, but for me the lack of support for Argyle is directly linked to a lack of local pride in the Plymouth area - I'm sure IJN or someone will be along to say how much he loves the city, but I think he's sadly the exception.

I personally think Plymouth is great and I'd be happy to live there again, but the vast, vast majority of my peers - as a 31 year old - don't feel like that in the slightest, and in fact think Plymouth is pretty rubbish, ugly and with nothing going on, and they couldn't wait to get away and very rarely go down to visit.

I always go back to the idea of local identity - there's no "Geordie Nation", "Scouse", "Manc" or dare I say "Cornish" identity for Plymouthians to latch on to, "Janner" is almost a pee-take term which isn't seen as something to aspire to. I wouldn't go so far as to say people are ashamed to be from Plymouth, but I do think there's a large amount of indifference and that's reflected in the lack of local support for the team that represents the city.

That's exactly how I see it. As individuals, there are many who are proud of the city. But until such time as the "city elders" start promoting the city in a meaningful manner, and the politicians are made to realise that there is life outside London and "the great northern cities" then Plymouth, and thus it's football club, will continue to lag behind.

 

[PL2 3DQ]

Thanks for the advice. I doff my cap to you big city boys. I'm humbled.