Home Park Development (PCC agenda 14th December 2pm)

[The Grumpy Loyal]

How the hell are you a neutral? You've been moaning about JB since 2012. :facepalm:

Come on pal, if you're going to play a game, tell the truth.

I think neutral isn't necessarily the right word. Sceptical would be more accurate. I've been sceptical from the outset about Brents priorities. And blimey with every decision he makes it strengthens that scepticism.

But there is a huge difference in me - someone who has nothing to lose or gain personally by either backing or slating Brent - and say, someone who has a huge amount of perks to lose if Brent disappears. There is quite simply zero merit in people with direct/indirect links singing his praises....what else are they going to say!?

 

[HC Green]

How the hell are you a neutral? You've been moaning about JB since 2012. :facepalm:

Come on pal, if you're going to play a game, tell the truth.

I think neutral isn't necessarily the right word. Sceptical would be more accurate. I've been sceptical from the outset about Brents priorities. And blimey with every decision he makes it strengthens that scepticism.

But there is a huge difference in me - someone who has nothing to lose or gain personally by either backing or slating Brent - and say, someone who has a huge amount of perks to lose if Brent disappears. There is quite simply zero merit in people with direct/indirect links singing his praises....what else are they going to say!?

Every decision? So in the six years you must be be able to produce a long list? So perhaps you could list what decisions that Brent has made that has strengthened your scepticism, once again someone makes a general statement with no facts to back it up.

 

[NorfolkGreen]

How the hell are you a neutral? You've been moaning about JB since 2012. :facepalm:

Come on pal, if you're going to play a game, tell the truth.

I think neutral isn't necessarily the right word. Sceptical would be more accurate. I've been sceptical from the outset about Brents priorities. And blimey with every decision he makes it strengthens that scepticism.

But there is a huge difference in me - someone who has nothing to lose or gain personally by either backing or slating Brent - and say, someone who has a huge amount of perks to lose if Brent disappears. There is quite simply zero merit in people with direct/indirect links singing his praises....what else are they going to say!?

Every decision? So in the six years you must be be able to produce a long list? So perhaps you could list what decisions that Brent has made that has strengthened your scepticism, once again someone makes a general statement with no facts to back it up.

To be fair you haven’t given him time to respond before saying he can’t back it up.

 

[The Grumpy Loyal]

How the hell are you a neutral? You've been moaning about JB since 2012. :facepalm:

Come on pal, if you're going to play a game, tell the truth.

I think neutral isn't necessarily the right word. Sceptical would be more accurate. I've been sceptical from the outset about Brents priorities. And blimey with every decision he makes it strengthens that scepticism.

But there is a huge difference in me - someone who has nothing to lose or gain personally by either backing or slating Brent - and say, someone who has a huge amount of perks to lose if Brent disappears. There is quite simply zero merit in people with direct/indirect links singing his praises....what else are they going to say!?

Every decision? So in the six years you must be be able to produce a long list? So perhaps you could list what decisions that Brent has made that has strengthened your scepticism, once again someone makes a general statement with no facts to back it up.

:facepalm: Right,, a precis off the top of my head...(I haven't got all day)

The original HHP plan....

An obomination that would have two sections of the ground sold for a school in one corner and a dentist in the other.

Capacity of that original stand - 4100. Consequently upped to a still rather pathetic 4800 after an outcry. This was the start of alarm bells ringing about the level of ambition he had for the future of PAFC.

Retail units built into the stand that would have had 100% of the revenue going to Akkeron, not PAFC.

No commitment for an open-to-all fans bar built into the new stand.

That very same mini-stand boxed in by an Ice Rink meaning no chance whatsoever of extension.

After concerns are raised about the inability to extend the mini-stand plans are released to potentially increase the Lyndhurst capacity by building brand new extension of seats with restricted views. I mean, seriously? :facepalm:

Then we have his decision making regarding areas of the ground and crucially, his inability or refusal to understand the definition of 'home advantage' and the fact you cannot put a price on atmosphere. The most atmospheric area of the ground (zoo corner) closed, and family stand moved from Block One to in between home and away supporters.

Refusal to re-introduce seating to the Mayflower - again, the inability to accept the advantages this potentially gives the team and the atmosphere it creates.

The Oldway Mansion fiasco...development aborted.

Civic Centre... (see Oldway)

The Liverpool ticketing disgrace. It is indirect, but that showed up the rank amateur set up which he controls and presides over. Totally unacceptable.

Now the latest plan...

Highly misleading PR showing corners developed which when pressed at a Forum, Brent actually states that there is no funding, timescale or plan for this mythical build. Indeed, when pressed further (and this is where my alarms bells about his ambition for PAFC rises further) he states that even if money became available in future, his preference would be to NOT FINISH THE GROUND. It is precisely this way of thinking that tells me all I need to know about Brents long-term ambition for the club.

An office block next to the ground in Central park. :facepalm: All of which if he ever actually builds it, revenue goes to Akkeron.

Now the latest brainwave is to make Conference goers walk from the bus depot to the ground. Classy eh?

In short his building/development record is woeful, and as I've said before, I believe the Western Gateway site will not see a single brick laid by him....he is merely waiting for planning to be green lighted, then he'll sell on to the highest bidder.

Then it is the little things like the new electronic board. He doesn't even realise how bad it looks PR-wise when other people on the Board match funds raised by fans...while he contributes nothing.

There's plenty more I've missed out HC, but I'm off out now.

 

[GreenThing]

Sorry Derek, I know that you'd love to sign Carey but we need the money to put a 10ft advertising board outside the Demport.

 

[HC Green]

How the hell are you a neutral? You've been moaning about JB since 2012. :facepalm:

Come on pal, if you're going to play a game, tell the truth.

I think neutral isn't necessarily the right word. Sceptical would be more accurate. I've been sceptical from the outset about Brents priorities. And blimey with every decision he makes it strengthens that scepticism.

But there is a huge difference in me - someone who has nothing to lose or gain personally by either backing or slating Brent - and say, someone who has a huge amount of perks to lose if Brent disappears. There is quite simply zero merit in people with direct/indirect links singing his praises....what else are they going to say!?

Every decision? So in the six years you must be be able to produce a long list? So perhaps you could list what decisions that Brent has made that has strengthened your scepticism, once again someone makes a general statement with no facts to back it up.

:facepalm: Right,, a precis off the top of my head...(I haven't got all day)

The original HHP plan....

An obomination that would have two sections of the ground sold for a school in one corner and a dentist in the other.

Capacity of that original stand - 4100. Consequently upped to a still rather pathetic 4800 after an outcry. This was the start of alarm bells ringing about the level of ambition he had for the future of PAFC.

Retail units built into the stand that would have had 100% of the revenue going to Akkeron, not PAFC.

No commitment for an open-to-all fans bar built into the new stand.

That very same mini-stand boxed in by an Ice Rink meaning no chance whatsoever of extension.

After concerns are raised about the inability to extend the mini-stand plans are released to potentially increase the Lyndhurst capacity by building brand new extension of seats with restricted views. I mean, seriously? :facepalm:

Then we have his decision making regarding areas of the ground and crucially, his inability or refusal to understand the definition of 'home advantage' and the fact you cannot put a price on atmosphere. The most atmospheric area of the ground (zoo corner) closed, and family stand moved from Block One to in between home and away supporters.

Refusal to re-introduce seating to the Mayflower - again, the inability to accept the advantages this potentially gives the team and the atmosphere it creates.

The Oldway Mansion fiasco...development aborted.

Civic Centre... (see Oldway)

The Liverpool ticketing disgrace. It is indirect, but that showed up the rank amateur set up which he controls and presides over. Totally unacceptable.

Now the latest plan...

Highly misleading PR showing corners developed which when pressed at a Forum, Brent actually states that there is no funding, timescale or plan for this mythical build. Indeed, when pressed further (and this is where my alarms bells about his ambition for PAFC rises further) he states that even if money became available in future, his preference would be to NOT FINISH THE GROUND. It is precisely this way of thinking that tells me all I need to know about Brents long-term ambition for the club.

An office block next to the ground in Central park. :facepalm: All of which if he ever actually builds it, revenue goes to Akkeron.

Now the latest brainwave is to make Conference goers walk from the bus depot to the ground. Classy eh?

In short his building/development record is woeful, and as I've said before, I believe the Western Gateway site will not see a single brick laid by him....he is merely waiting for planning to be green lighted, then he'll sell on to the highest bidder.

Then it is the little things like the new electronic board. He doesn't even realise how bad it looks PR-wise when other people on the Board match funds raised by fans...while he contributes nothing.

There's plenty more I've missed out HC, but I'm off out now.

Just a point what has the Civic Centre got to do with Brent, the Council sold it for a £1 to Urban Splash, the owners of the Royal William Yard?

On the issue of the proposed offices in HHP, have you noticed what currently exists on HHP, offices and retail buildings, so in planning terms the proposed offices are just replacing old ones so not even a change of use.

It wasn’t a very long list, and of those related to Argyle aren’t most of them decisions by Plymouth Argyle how do you know they were his decisions?

 

[GM Vauxhall]

How the hell are you a neutral? You've been moaning about JB since 2012. :facepalm:

Come on pal, if you're going to play a game, tell the truth.

I think neutral isn't necessarily the right word. Sceptical would be more accurate. I've been sceptical from the outset about Brents priorities. And blimey with every decision he makes it strengthens that scepticism.

But there is a huge difference in me - someone who has nothing to lose or gain personally by either backing or slating Brent - and say, someone who has a huge amount of perks to lose if Brent disappears. There is quite simply zero merit in people with direct/indirect links singing his praises....what else are they going to say!?

Every decision? So in the six years you must be be able to produce a long list? So perhaps you could list what decisions that Brent has made that has strengthened your scepticism, once again someone makes a general statement with no facts to back it up.

:facepalm: Right,, a precis off the top of my head...(I haven't got all day)

The original HHP plan....

An obomination that would have two sections of the ground sold for a school in one corner and a dentist in the other.

Capacity of that original stand - 4100. Consequently upped to a still rather pathetic 4800 after an outcry. This was the start of alarm bells ringing about the level of ambition he had for the future of PAFC.

Retail units built into the stand that would have had 100% of the revenue going to Akkeron, not PAFC.

No commitment for an open-to-all fans bar built into the new stand.

That very same mini-stand boxed in by an Ice Rink meaning no chance whatsoever of extension.

After concerns are raised about the inability to extend the mini-stand plans are released to potentially increase the Lyndhurst capacity by building brand new extension of seats with restricted views. I mean, seriously? :facepalm:

Then we have his decision making regarding areas of the ground and crucially, his inability or refusal to understand the definition of 'home advantage' and the fact you cannot put a price on atmosphere. The most atmospheric area of the ground (zoo corner) closed, and family stand moved from Block One to in between home and away supporters.

Refusal to re-introduce seating to the Mayflower - again, the inability to accept the advantages this potentially gives the team and the atmosphere it creates.

The Oldway Mansion fiasco...development aborted.

Civic Centre... (see Oldway)

The Liverpool ticketing disgrace. It is indirect, but that showed up the rank amateur set up which he controls and presides over. Totally unacceptable.

Now the latest plan...

Highly misleading PR showing corners developed which when pressed at a Forum, Brent actually states that there is no funding, timescale or plan for this mythical build. Indeed, when pressed further (and this is where my alarms bells about his ambition for PAFC rises further) he states that even if money became available in future, his preference would be to NOT FINISH THE GROUND. It is precisely this way of thinking that tells me all I need to know about Brents long-term ambition for the club.

An office block next to the ground in Central park. :facepalm: All of which if he ever actually builds it, revenue goes to Akkeron.

Now the latest brainwave is to make Conference goers walk from the bus depot to the ground. Classy eh?

In short his building/development record is woeful, and as I've said before, I believe the Western Gateway site will not see a single brick laid by him....he is merely waiting for planning to be green lighted, then he'll sell on to the highest bidder.

Then it is the little things like the new electronic board. He doesn't even realise how bad it looks PR-wise when other people on the Board match funds raised by fans...while he contributes nothing.

There's plenty more I've missed out HC, but I'm off out now.

Just a point what has the Civic Centre got to do with Brent, the Council sold it for a £1 to Urban Splash, the owners of the Royal William Yard?

On the issue of the proposed offices in HHP, have you noticed what currently exists on HHP, offices and retail buildings, so in planning terms the proposed offices are just replacing old ones so not even a change of use.

It wasn’t a very long list, and of those related to Argyle aren’t most of them decisions by Plymouth Argyle how do you know they were his decisions?

Well as Chairman and majority shareholder it's a fairly safe assumption that he at least supports them.

 

[Mark Jenkin]

How the hell are you a neutral? You've been moaning about JB since 2012. :facepalm:

Come on pal, if you're going to play a game, tell the truth.

I think neutral isn't necessarily the right word. Sceptical would be more accurate. I've been sceptical from the outset about Brents priorities. And blimey with every decision he makes it strengthens that scepticism.

But there is a huge difference in me - someone who has nothing to lose or gain personally by either backing or slating Brent - and say, someone who has a huge amount of perks to lose if Brent disappears. There is quite simply zero merit in people with direct/indirect links singing his praises....what else are they going to say!?

Every decision? So in the six years you must be be able to produce a long list? So perhaps you could list what decisions that Brent has made that has strengthened your scepticism, once again someone makes a general statement with no facts to back it up.

:facepalm: Right,, a precis off the top of my head...(I haven't got all day)

The original HHP plan....

An obomination that would have two sections of the ground sold for a school in one corner and a dentist in the other.

Capacity of that original stand - 4100. Consequently upped to a still rather pathetic 4800 after an outcry. This was the start of alarm bells ringing about the level of ambition he had for the future of PAFC.

Retail units built into the stand that would have had 100% of the revenue going to Akkeron, not PAFC.

No commitment for an open-to-all fans bar built into the new stand.

That very same mini-stand boxed in by an Ice Rink meaning no chance whatsoever of extension.

After concerns are raised about the inability to extend the mini-stand plans are released to potentially increase the Lyndhurst capacity by building brand new extension of seats with restricted views. I mean, seriously? :facepalm:

Then we have his decision making regarding areas of the ground and crucially, his inability or refusal to understand the definition of 'home advantage' and the fact you cannot put a price on atmosphere. The most atmospheric area of the ground (zoo corner) closed, and family stand moved from Block One to in between home and away supporters.

Refusal to re-introduce seating to the Mayflower - again, the inability to accept the advantages this potentially gives the team and the atmosphere it creates.

The Oldway Mansion fiasco...development aborted.

Civic Centre... (see Oldway)

The Liverpool ticketing disgrace. It is indirect, but that showed up the rank amateur set up which he controls and presides over. Totally unacceptable.

Now the latest plan...

Highly misleading PR showing corners developed which when pressed at a Forum, Brent actually states that there is no funding, timescale or plan for this mythical build. Indeed, when pressed further (and this is where my alarms bells about his ambition for PAFC rises further) he states that even if money became available in future, his preference would be to NOT FINISH THE GROUND. It is precisely this way of thinking that tells me all I need to know about Brents long-term ambition for the club.

An office block next to the ground in Central park. :facepalm: All of which if he ever actually builds it, revenue goes to Akkeron.

Now the latest brainwave is to make Conference goers walk from the bus depot to the ground. Classy eh?

In short his building/development record is woeful, and as I've said before, I believe the Western Gateway site will not see a single brick laid by him....he is merely waiting for planning to be green lighted, then he'll sell on to the highest bidder.

Then it is the little things like the new electronic board. He doesn't even realise how bad it looks PR-wise when other people on the Board match funds raised by fans...while he contributes nothing.

There's plenty more I've missed out HC, but I'm off out now.

Just a point what has the Civic Centre got to do with Brent, the Council sold it for a £1 to Urban Splash, the owners of the Royal William Yard?

On the issue of the proposed offices in HHP, have you noticed what currently exists on HHP, offices and retail buildings, so in planning terms the proposed offices are just replacing old ones so not even a change of use.

It wasn’t a very long list, and of those related to Argyle aren’t most of them decisions by Plymouth Argyle how do you know they were his decisions?

Well you did ask and it's longer than your counter argument
And as for Argyle decisions I would imagine that the majority shareholder and chairman would be involved in the decision making :lol

 

[KFA]

Civic Centre - JB was PCC preferred bidder with plans to turn it into hotel with retail/ restaurants if memory serves. This didn’t progress after some time and hence Urban Splash.

Whether the commercial elements of HHP/ Western Gateway get built by JB or sold to “a n other” to develop I don’t really care about as long as the Grandstand redevelopment gets done and any sale of HHP includes suitable protections for PAFC re rights of way/ use of car parking spaces at HHP etc

 

[HC Green]

Civic Centre - JB was PCC preferred bidder with plans to turn it into hotel with retail/ restaurants if memory serves. This didn’t progress after some time and hence Urban Splash.

Whether the commercial elements of HHP/ Western Gateway get built by JB or sold to “a n other” to develop I don’t really care about as long as the Grandstand redevelopment gets done and any sale of HHP includes suitable protections for PAFC re rights of way/ use of car parking spaces at HHP etc

Well that means Brent soon realised there isn’t a viable way of converting the building, as Urban Splash has owned the building for years and apart from using it for Fire Brigade training can’t find a way of starting the work it would seem Brent made the right call!

 

[Mark Jenkin]

Civic Centre - JB was PCC preferred bidder with plans to turn it into hotel with retail/ restaurants if memory serves. This didn’t progress after some time and hence Urban Splash.

Whether the commercial elements of HHP/ Western Gateway get built by JB or sold to “a n other” to develop I don’t really care about as long as the Grandstand redevelopment gets done and any sale of HHP includes suitable protections for PAFC re rights of way/ use of car parking spaces at HHP etc

Well that means Brent soon realised there isn’t a viable way of converting the building, as Urban Splash has owned the building for years and apart from using it for Fire Brigade training can’t find a way of starting the work it would seem Brent made the right call!

To be fair Urban Splash have owned the building for 2 and a half years, Brent has owned HHP for a lot longer than that and he hasn't started work either :tumbleweed:

 

[HC Green]

Civic Centre - JB was PCC preferred bidder with plans to turn it into hotel with retail/ restaurants if memory serves. This didn’t progress after some time and hence Urban Splash.

Whether the commercial elements of HHP/ Western Gateway get built by JB or sold to “a n other” to develop I don’t really care about as long as the Grandstand redevelopment gets done and any sale of HHP includes suitable protections for PAFC re rights of way/ use of car parking spaces at HHP etc

Well that means Brent soon realised there isn’t a viable way of converting the building, as Urban Splash has owned the building for years and apart from using it for Fire Brigade training can’t find a way of starting the work it would seem Brent made the right call!

To be fair Urban Splash have owned the building for 2 and a half years, Brent has owned HHP for a lot longer than that and he hasn't started work either :tumbleweed:

Have they put a planning application to the Council yet?

 

[Mark Jenkin]

Civic Centre - JB was PCC preferred bidder with plans to turn it into hotel with retail/ restaurants if memory serves. This didn’t progress after some time and hence Urban Splash.

Whether the commercial elements of HHP/ Western Gateway get built by JB or sold to “a n other” to develop I don’t really care about as long as the Grandstand redevelopment gets done and any sale of HHP includes suitable protections for PAFC re rights of way/ use of car parking spaces at HHP etc

Well that means Brent soon realised there isn’t a viable way of converting the building, as Urban Splash has owned the building for years and apart from using it for Fire Brigade training can’t find a way of starting the work it would seem Brent made the right call!

To be fair Urban Splash have owned the building for 2 and a half years, Brent has owned HHP for a lot longer than that and he hasn't started work either :tumbleweed:

Have they put a planning application to the Council yet?

I don't care, only pointing out they haven't owned it "for years" which was what you said.
I did read back in September they were hoping to present plans soon though, as we all know these things seem to take ages

 

[HC Green]

Civic Centre - JB was PCC preferred bidder with plans to turn it into hotel with retail/ restaurants if memory serves. This didn’t progress after some time and hence Urban Splash.

Whether the commercial elements of HHP/ Western Gateway get built by JB or sold to “a n other” to develop I don’t really care about as long as the Grandstand redevelopment gets done and any sale of HHP includes suitable protections for PAFC re rights of way/ use of car parking spaces at HHP etc

Well that means Brent soon realised there isn’t a viable way of converting the building, as Urban Splash has owned the building for years and apart from using it for Fire Brigade training can’t find a way of starting the work it would seem Brent made the right call!

To be fair Urban Splash have owned the building for 2 and a half years, Brent has owned HHP for a lot longer than that and he hasn't started work either :tumbleweed:

Have they put a planning application to the Council yet?

I don't care, only pointing out they haven't owned it "for years" which was what you said.
I did read back in September they were hoping to present plans soon though, as we all know these things seem to take ages

It was reported as sold to them in February 2015, so that is years.

 

[The Grumpy Loyal]

Civic Centre - JB was PCC preferred bidder with plans to turn it into hotel with retail/ restaurants if memory serves. This didn’t progress after some time and hence Urban Splash.

Whether the commercial elements of HHP/ Western Gateway get built by JB or sold to “a n other” to develop I don’t really care about as long as the Grandstand redevelopment gets done and any sale of HHP includes suitable protections for PAFC re rights of way/ use of car parking spaces at HHP etc

Well that means Brent soon realised there isn’t a viable way of converting the building, as Urban Splash has owned the building for years and apart from using it for Fire Brigade training can’t find a way of starting the work it would seem Brent made the right call!

To be fair Urban Splash have owned the building for 2 and a half years, Brent has owned HHP for a lot longer than that and he hasn't started work either :tumbleweed:

Have they put a planning application to the Council yet?

I don't care, only pointing out they haven't owned it "for years" which was what you said.
I did read back in September they were hoping to present plans soon though, as we all know these things seem to take ages

It was reported as sold to them in February 2015, so that is years.

Come on HC, that's painfully weak pedantic nonsense. Have a butchers here and see what they have done.

http://www.urbansplash.co.uk/gallery

If you are actually trying to portray Urban Splash as some sort of developing novices, I shudder to think how Brents developing record stands up.